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To: Petronski
Thank you for your link to the portion of the Roman Catholic Catechism concerning the seven sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church.

It does still seem to me as though the Roman Catholic Church is saying that a penitant must never ever confess his or her sins directly to God, and that doing so is completely without effect. In other words, it appear that the Roman Catholic Church is saying that God will not hear prayers of people who want to confess their sins directly to Him, and that God will not forgive any sin that is confessed directly to Him.

"1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance."

"1461 Since Christ entrusted to his apostles the ministry of reconciliation,65 bishops who are their successors, and priests, the bishops' collaborators, continue to exercise this ministry. Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

Doesn't that mean that God will not hear a confession made directly to Him?

And so wouldn't that also mean that, as I posted in post #44, that the Roman Catholic Church is teaching that "Christ, in John 20:21-23, is saying, "I command you, my followers, never to confess your sins to Me or to my Father who is in Heaven. You must, instead, confess your sins to this group of ordained human beings who have the authority and power to forgive sins -- and only to them. When you pray, never ever confess your sins to me or to my Father. Such prayers are of no value to you, and I will not hear them. Instead, you must confess to a human being."

59 posted on 07/03/2008 2:19:16 PM PDT by chs68
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To: chs68
Thank you for your link to the portion of the Roman Catholic Catechism...

Inaccurate. I gave you a link to a portion of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

60 posted on 07/03/2008 2:21:17 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: chs68
It does still seem to me as though the Catholic Church is saying that a penitant must never ever confess his or her sins directly to God, and that doing so is completely without effect. In other words, it appear that the Catholic Church is saying that God will not hear prayers of people who want to confess their sins directly to Him, and that God will not forgive any sin that is confessed directly to Him.

I don't see where it says that.

For instance, "1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance."

61 posted on 07/03/2008 2:23:05 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: chs68
"I command you, my followers, never to confess your sins to Me or to my Father who is in Heaven. You must, instead, confess your sins to this group of ordained human beings who have the authority and power to forgive sins -- and only to them. When you pray, never ever confess your sins to me or to my Father. Such prayers are of no value to you, and I will not hear them. Instead, you must confess to a human being."

Why would you make up such an elaborate description of Catholic teaching about forgiveness of sins when I linked you to the ACTUAL teaching?

63 posted on 07/03/2008 2:24:22 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: chs68

“It does still seem to me”

I hate to inform you that it really isn’t all about what it “seems” to you. It is about the truth, it is about Tradition, it is about the Bible interpreted by the authority which codified it through that same Tradition and handed on by the Apostles. It is all about the church that Jesus created, it is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic and it will stand until the end of time.

YOU might not believe it but that’s okay, the Holy Spirit may someday take you by the hand and lead you there. And as Paul, who didn’t realize that by persecuting the Apostles that he was persecuting Christ, you may one day become a Catholic.

You have the Bible and access to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and until you truly study it and are informed in your opinions it will do no good to argue with you. My faith isn’t predicated by your opinions and feelings it is predicated on the Truth.


80 posted on 07/03/2008 3:34:17 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: chs68
I have no idea where you are drawing your conclusions:

"1461 Since Christ entrusted to his apostles the ministry of reconciliation,65 bishops who are their successors, and priests, the bishops' collaborators, continue to exercise this ministry. Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

Doesn't that mean that God will not hear a confession made directly to Him?

How do you get that conclusion from the paragraph you quoted??? Please, I realize that you've been around for a while (since 2001), but I haven't seen your handle pop up much in the religion forum much, so maybe you're just not used to getting down and dirty around these parts. My goodness, you've got to at least try using a little first order logic in constructing your arguments.

The same applies to the twisting of the John 20 extract.

Please, at least put a little work into your arguments here...

90 posted on 07/03/2008 6:59:01 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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