Violence in Early Mormonism - Was It All Unjust Persecution?

MRM ^ | Bill McKeever

[Rameumptom]

Did Joseph Smith not command a standing extra legal militia

No he commanded a legal militia. Consult your constitution. What is amazing is that on the most conservative website online anti-Mormons consistently adopt liberal lies when it comes to discussion of the Mormons. But hey its an open forum. Any other liberal lies you want to promote in open view of your fellow FReepers?

[Rameumptom]

Gov. Boggs and Gov. Ford. Anti-Mormon’s favorite Democrats.

[SkyPilot]

But seriously only someone afflicted with Mormon Derangement Syndrome would joke at infanticide.

Who "joked" about infanticide?

Don't do that.

The fact is, the baby died of natural causes and it had nothing to do with the people who tarred Smith.

Only someone trying to stretch the facts in order to elicit sympathy that they are not entitled to would do so in order to justify a lecherous man like Smith who abused women and young girls (even as young as 15).

[Rameumptom]

The inverted pentagram was used by Christians to symbolise the morning star. There are many reasons for this. As the morning star it tracks the elliptical path of Venus. You'll notice in many renditions that the points don't actually come together. The distance corresponds with the days that it is visible in the sky. Jesus is called the Morning star in the scriptures. "I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelations 22:16)

Venus is reflective of the sunlight (the sun is associated with God in the Bible as well). It is a very complex and fitting meaning that early Christians attached to the morning star (inverted pentagram). What is amazing is how well they understood the astronomical properties. The symbolic meaning is touching as Jesus (the morning star) reflects the light of the celestial sun (the Father). Of course the first time it was associated with Satanism was from a defrocked French man of course. Leave it to the Frenchies to slander a Christian symbol so thouroughly that so called conservative (who uncannily keep using liberal arguments) have willingly given their symbol of Christ up. You should be standing up for your own Christians symbol.

Why do you collude with the defrocked Frenchie to promote the later false meaning of the morning star instead of the original Christian meanings. To use my analogy again. What you are arguing is that the rainbow really should be used for gays instead of as a sign of the covenant. Since when do Christians give up their symbols just to try to make Mormons look bad. you should be fighting for your own symbols.

The pdf link at this article is an interesting read. The inverted pentagram was associated with Christ by Constantine (ever heard of him?) and is found on the medal of honor as well. There are many pics in the pdf article linked here www.fairlds.org/pubs/Stars.pdf of the Christian usage over thousands of years of the inverted pentagram. Christian symbol inverted pentagram

The real question is are you going to continue to promote the secular Frenchie version and deny your own Christian meaning just to bash Mormons or are you going to stand unashamed and fight for your own symbols.

2 Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

The Chartres Cathedral and Amiens Cathedral displays inverted pentagrams. The book by Yves, "Art of the Christian World: AD 200-1500 A handbook of Styles and Forms" has more.

This link discusses the Christological symoblism The Pentagram

...it should be also noted that they are non-existent in any depiction of the Devil or Satan before Éliphas Lévi’s nineteenth century Baphomet. [7] There are a number of examples of the pentagram found on buildings of a religious nature in Europe. [13] Notable examples can be seen on gravestones in the Claustro da Lavagem in the Convento at Tomar, Portugal, the monastery of Ravna, Bulgaria and the Church of All Saints at Kilham, Humberside, Yorkshire, England, which incorporates the symbol on the columns which support the Norman doorway. [10] It is indented on the gateposts of the churchyard of S. Peter’s, Walworth, England, built in 1824. [11] There are also a number of examples in the sketchbook of thirteenth century stonemason, Villard de Honnecourt. [8] Further examples of the pentagram’s use in Christian architecture can be found in a large carved inverted star in the centre of the north transept rose window of Amiens Cathedral in France, built between 1220 and 1410 C.E.; a huge inverted five-pointed star on the steeple of the Marktkirche, or Market Church in fourteenth century Hanover, Germany; the numerous inverted stars that surround a statue of Mary and the Christ Child in Chartres Cathedral circa 1150 C.E.; the interlaced star depicted in the "Berthold Missal" drawn in the Benedictine Abbey in Weingarten Germany circa 1225 C.E.; an inverted nativity star in the sculpted capital of a cloister pillar from the twelfth century C.E.; and various Orthodox paintings that illustrate the Mount of Transfiguration.[14]

14. See Martin Hürlimann, French Cathedrals. New York: Viking Press, 1967, p. 149 for Amiens Cathedral; Christian Norberg-Shulz, The Concept of Dwelling: On the Way to Figurative Architecture. New York: Rizzoli, 1985, p. 74 for Marktkirche; Gertrud Schiller, Iconography of Christian Art. Greenwich, Connecticut: New York Graphic Society, 1971, 1, plate 271 for Weingarten; Yves Christe, et. al., Art of the Christian World, A.D. 200-1500: A Handbook of Styles and Forms. New York: Rizzoli, 1982, p. 346; Leonid Ouspensky and Vladimir Lossky, The Meaning of Icons. Boston, Massachusetts: Boston Book and Art Shop, 1952, p. 213; Engelina Smirnova, Moscow Icons: 14th-17th Centuries. Oxford: Phaidon, 1989, figure 121; V. N. Lazarev, Moscow School of Icon Painting. Moscow: Ishkusstvo, 1971 for Orthodox paintings.

When the temple was built (and the Logan Temple which also has inverted stars) Mormons openly declared the Christ centered meaning of the stars (and published its meaning in the local newspapers of the day). Symbols mean what we (or God has attached to them). It is interesting that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which claims to be a restoration of the primitive Church of Christ, is the one who has the correct meaning of the early symbols while you have adopted and legitimized the defrocked Frenchman's version.

Mormons like this symbol as well. Care to have a go at it and say Mormons are gay now as well?

[Rameumptom]

ping to 204

[Rameumptom]

thought you might like #204

[Rameumptom]

And OJ is still looking for the murderer too.

Like I said your version doesn't even square with the mobs own accounts. They invaded the home (illegally) pulled Joseph Smith from his bed. Tore the baby out of his arms. Pullled him outside and beat and tarred and feathered him. The baby was left on the floor exposed to the winter cold through the open door. The baby died soon after. The mobsters were proud of the fact and openly bragged about it. Except the Doctor who seemed to regret being brought along. The mob included a Baptist minister but IMO, out of the crowd the Doctor may be the only one who has any claim on the title Christian.

Under any legal state the mob could be charged with murder. Look it up or talk to a criminal prosecutor about it. Heck, there are probably a few hanging around on FR you could ping.

Its called the "felony murder rule" and is on the books in every jurisdiction in the united States. Look it up wii has a good explanation of what it is. In the commission of a felony disregard for life that results in the death of the participant whether intentional or not is considered murder and is a capital crime. Besides as much as you take the opposing liberal non conservative side on this legal matter you wouldn't pass a Solomon stlye test. There is no way in heck you would allow your infant to be so killed out of the wanton disregard displayed by the mob.

What really amazes me is that you so unashamedly argue for the felony murder of the infant. Your posts read like a liberal defense attorney trying to get their criminal off the hook. Go ahead have at the last post.

[Rameumptom]

wii=wiki= wikipedia

[ejonesie22]

Actually under the laws of Illinois, his army was not at the time. Additionally, it was activated without the advice and consent of the state, hence the treason charge sought by the governor. A militia just can't activate itself against fellow Americas, that's called rebellion, ask the Confederacy. Remember those silly states rights?

Bending and twisting facts, and braking the law, are liberal traits.

Nice try though.

[ejonesie22]

Now that I am at a real pc let me further explore your post.

You talk about the Constitution, so let's look at it, the Second Amendment specifically:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".

Hum, I wonder why the Founding Fathers (those liberal hacks /s) put in this specific language:

A WELL REGULATED MILITIA

Could it be that they thought roving personal armies attacking fellow Americans over the least little disagreement would be a bad thing?

There is a reason that a Mayor has to call the Governor of a state to activate a national guard unit, even if it is based in his own city and staffed by its citizens. There is a reason a nation guard unit commander cannot just muster his men because he doesn't like the fact parking tickets went up in price.

An activated militia operating without the command of the Governor is extra legal, even by, and especially by, the US Constitution. It is the first step to rebellion, and a treasonous act (oddly, what Smith was charged with).

So endeth the lesson for today.

[Elsie]

I do not have the room for them in this silly city place where I live now, but I thank you for the offer.

Oh!

Get OUT of the city!

If I had known how much FUN is was, living out in the country, I would have moved YEARS - no DECADES - ago!

[Tennessee Nana]

Gov. Boggs and Gov. Ford. Anti-Mormon’s favorite Democrats.
_____________________________________________

I know you are not talking about me...

I am not for the Democrats then or now..

I’m for the Republican political platform of the time...

The Twin Pillars of Evil...

Slavery of the Africans and the white slavery trade of polygamy amongst the anti-Christians AKA the mormons...

[ejonesie22]

It is ironic isn't it. The poster in a post to me talks of the Constitution and such, implying wanting to use the law. The talks about the Governors in such a fashion.

I, like many others in my state, did not like the Democratic Governor we once had. However we still obeyed the rules and did not seek to overthrow him but getting some of our local national guard guys together...

It doesn't matter what party a politician belongs to, we still follow the law.

[Old Mountain man]

Unfortunately, Elsie, I had significant problems making a living in the country. I was trying to support a wife, four kids, some foster kids three dogs, two cats and a hundred fifty thousand (more or less) honey bees.

These days I’m down to a wife, a grandchild and three dogs. Nowhere near as much fun.

[Elsie]

Nowhere near as much fun.

But probably a LOT easier to find your tools!

[Old Mountain man]

No, all my tools got stacked at the bottom of the pile in the garage, topped off with everyone else’s junk. I handed off the bees to some other folks in the co-op, along with the equipment. Still have about four gallons of honey.

[TheThirdRuffian]

What anti-mormon site? It’s an apologetic site, as far as I can tell.

I posted a link, instead of the text of the ritual (and the secrete “Adamanic,” handshakes, and all) because I understand Mormons go the gnostic route and want to keep “how to get into heaven” temple ritual secret.

Would you prefer I just post the information here?

Also, if you want to post anything you want about Christians, feel free. Christians, like the true Christ, have nothing to hide, theology-wise.

[Old Mountain man]

Dear TTR, I am having too nice a day to want to get into a theological or otherwise argument with you. Please take it seriously and to heart when I say to you that I love you as a friend and want you to have just as wonderful a day as I am having. I would rather talk about families, farms and critters. Have you ever seen one of your favorite dogs chase a deer across the road, and then a minute later seen the deer chase the dog back across the road? I have.

[Elsie]

Still have about four gallons of honey.

You should have no problem keeping sweet! ;^)

[Old Mountain man]

Some days are like that.