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A good man is hard to find at church
The Baptist Standard ^ | August 14, 2008 | Lee Ann Marcel

Posted on 08/15/2008 11:50:44 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

DALLAS (ABP)—Men are disappearing from the church.

According to the Barna Research Group, there are 11 million to 13 million more American women who are born again than there are born-again men. While nine out of 10 senior pastors are men, a majority of regular church attenders are women.

Not only are women the majority of born-again American Christians, the Barna Group reports, “Women are the backbone of the Christian congregations in America.”

Perhaps indicative of women’s sense of spirituality, 41 percent of women said they have set specific spiritual goals they hope to accomplish in the coming year or two. Only 29 percent of men have identified such spiritual goals.

“Women, more often than not, take the lead role in the spiritual life of the family,” said George Barna, president of the research group. “Women typically emerge as the primary—or only—spiritual mentor and role model for family members. And that puts a tremendous burden on wives and mothers.”

Pam Durso, associate executive director of the Baptist History & Heritage Society, agrees women play a major role in families as spiritual mentors. “One aspect of that is that mothers generally are the ones who do the scheduling of events and the planning of activities, including church attendance and church-related programs.”

But that’s nothing new, Durso argues. Historically, women have dominated the membership of Baptist churches.

“Here is something to think about: Is 61 percent for female participation really a change for Baptists? Over the years, many Baptist churches have had a majority of female members,” Durso said.

At First Baptist Church of America, in Providence, R.I.—the premier Baptist congregation in the New World—59 percent of the members from 1730-1777 were women, Durso noted. From 1779-1799, that percentage dropped by only 1 percent to 58 percent.

“So, perhaps the question is not where have all the men gone, but is instead where have men been all these years?” Durso said.

David Murrow, author of Why Men Hate Going to Church, believes the way churches market themselves affects the demographics of their memberships. According to Murrow’s Church for Men website, a typical congregation draws an adult crowd that’s 61 percent female and 39 percent male.

“It’s widely believed, and rarely spoken of, that men feel church is something for women, children and grandparents,” Murrow said. “If a man becomes involved (in a church), then he is less manly.”

Murrow believes this trend began during the Industrial Revolution in the 1840s. Harsh economic conditions drove men to seek jobs in mines, mills and factories. While men worked, families were left behind for longer periods of time. The only people to be found in congregations were women, children and older men. Women began to add socials like teas, quilting circles and potluck dinners.

“The able-bodied man all but disappeared from the church,” Murrow said.

Murrow mentions on his website, www.churchformen.com, that many who have grown up in the church don’t recognize the “feminine spirituality.” But to the masculine mind, it’s obvious as the steps in front of the door.

“He may feel like Tom Sawyer in Aunt Polly’s parlor. He must watch his language, mind his manners and be extra polite. It’s hard for a man to be real in church because he must squeeze himself into this feminine religious mold,” Murrow writes on the site.

The tendency of targeting women has grown with the increased popularity of contemporary worship, Murrow added.

Hymns used to be tuned into the masculine heart by alluding to God as a mighty fortress, Murrow noted. Songs such as “Onward Christian Soldiers” spurred men in their faith.

“But now worship sounds like a Top-40 love song,” Murrow said. “They are wonderful and biblical, but it’s not the sentiment that will rally a bunch of men.”

Romantic music is a response to the market of single women, Murrow added. “They provide a Jesus image who wants to steal away with them … which doesn’t appeal to men.”

“Are we going to allow the market to drive the church, or the Bible to drive the church?”

Murrow suggests there’s nothing wrong with the gospel—just the way Christians present it. “We just need to change the culture container that we are delivering it in and should be willing to follow the example of churches who succeed in reaching men,” he said.

A leading example is Christ Church of the Valley in Phoenix, Ariz. The church markets to men through the events promoted, down to the colors and design of the building. The church even changes the range of the worship songs so men can feel comfortable singing.

“Everything we do when it comes to marketing is geared toward men in the 25-45 range … an underserved demographic in the church market today,” said Michael Gray, communications coordinator of Christ Church of the Valley.

The church offers activities like motorcycle and sport groups. One of the groups is called The Edge. There men can rappel down cliffs, jump out of airplanes and bungee jump off bridges. The purpose is to cause men to take a step of faith and stretch their comfort zones. The ministry is a spiritually challenging group, not just physically challenging. While the group focuses on adventurous activities, their ultimate goal is to lead people into an adventure with Jesus Christ.

“The Edge helps get men plugged into the church and hanging out with other men, outside a church setting,” Gray said. “It shows that we are men’s men, and we don’t just sit in shirt and tie on Sundays with our leather-bound Bible”

There is more than one way to present the gospel in a way that contemporary men will respond to, Murrow said. But it begins with the congregation understanding it must make an intentional effort to reach out to men.

“People have to realize it’s a problem. They need to wake up and look (at) how magnetic Jesus was to men. We have a 70-to-80 percent failure to boys. I don’t think that’s (God’s) will.”


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: bornagain; church; dating; males; marriage; unchurched
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Related threads:
Flirt to Convert?!?)
Study Shows Christianity Makes Men Better Husbands and Fathers
First Church For Men Opens Its Doors
The Truth About Men and Church
God for Guys: New Church Hopes to Encourage More Men to Worship
Churches use masculine edge to attract men
Where Are God's Warriors and Wild Men?
Empty Pews: Where Did All The Men Go? Gender Gap Threatens Churches' Future
Manliness is next to godliness [masculinity, feminism, and thw wuss-ification of Christianity]
1 posted on 08/15/2008 11:50:44 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

I’ll give another reason why there are more women then men in church: If the man is a Christian, but the woman is not, you are likely to see both in church. If the woman is a Christian but the man is not, you are likely to see only the woman.

I learned this first hand - the hard way.

And technically, the man is the pastor of the woman, while the pastor of the church is the pastor of the man. A woman who is married to a non-believer has no pastor in the home.


2 posted on 08/15/2008 11:55:42 AM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: Alex Murphy

Now we know where to find the women for those unmarried young Chinese men that the world fears will willingly go to war out of frustration.


3 posted on 08/15/2008 11:55:55 AM PDT by Teacher317 (Thank you Dith Pran for showing us what Communism brings)
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To: Alex Murphy
That is a sad comintary on Baptisit churches. It really deppends on where you go, our church is about 50/50, with lots and lots of late teens and early 20s. I love the bumpers ticker Real men love Jesus.
4 posted on 08/15/2008 11:57:24 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: Alex Murphy

The fact that women live longer than men is entirely unrelated to these numbers of course...


5 posted on 08/15/2008 11:57:36 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Alex Murphy
"Perhaps indicative of women’s sense of spirituality, 41 percent of women said they have set specific spiritual goals they hope to accomplish in the coming year or two. Only 29 percent of men have identified such spiritual goals. "

Spiritual Goals???? Huh??

The only "Spiritual Goal" I have a Christian is to keep my relationship/experience with Christ up-to-date.
6 posted on 08/15/2008 12:01:36 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (GOP: If you reward bad behavior all you get is more bad behavior.)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: RobRoy

When I look around at the men, during ditty-singing, it is a wonder ANY man sets foot in a church, ever. (Don’t get me started on the music, that’s another issue. But this has to be part of the problem.)They are unhappy, not interested in singing and clapping and cheering, for the most part — remind me of a guy invited to a baby shower.


8 posted on 08/15/2008 12:11:05 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: bboop
...remind me of a guy invited to a baby shower

GREAT analogy!

9 posted on 08/15/2008 12:12:04 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy
I rarely have time to post anymore, but the following caught my eye...

The church markets to men through the events promoted, down to the colors and design of the building. The church even changes the range of the worship songs so men can feel comfortable singing. “Everything we do when it comes to marketing is geared toward men in the 25-45 range … an underserved demographic in the church market today,” said Michael Gray, communications coordinator of Christ Church of the Valley. The church offers activities like motorcycle and sport groups. One of the groups is called The Edge. There men can rappel down cliffs, jump out of airplanes and bungee jump off bridges. The purpose is to cause men to take a step of faith and stretch their comfort zones. The ministry is a spiritually challenging group, not just physically challenging.

Isn't anyone else appalled by these ideas and easy use of the terms "marketing" and "promotion" when referring to church attendance? It reminds me of that distinctly liberal tactic of "Framing the Message" in order to bring more bodies in. You only need to "frame" the message if the message doesn't stand on it's own merit.

10 posted on 08/15/2008 12:15:08 PM PDT by BMiles2112
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To: bboop

Giving praise to the Creator should be gender neutral.


11 posted on 08/15/2008 12:17:38 PM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Usually, when there are more women than men, it attracts men!
12 posted on 08/15/2008 12:27:17 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: BMiles2112
Why would a man go where God isn't. I mean if I want to be entertained I have football, beer, video games, fishing, in other words alot more things to do than sit around a church that is run by a pastor who is run by his wife. These ridiculous churches are not "geared toward men" but geared toward women who hope this crap will seduce their husbands into going.

I can talk to God daily while working, why join a bunch of unbelievers at a social gathering. Remember that Eve was deceived of the Devil but Adam just listened to his wife.

13 posted on 08/15/2008 12:32:40 PM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: bboop

Yeah, I just finished reading a book by my best friend. He was my pastor until he moved to Kentucky. We go there about three times a year and have lots of conversations about what church should be.

The book is “and no religion too - thoughts on the spectator church”

It realy is an eye opening perspective on the church and how it relates to the first century church. It also cracked me up. Ed’s quite a story teller...

http://www.edwardgoblebooks.com/


14 posted on 08/15/2008 12:33:30 PM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: BMiles2112

I am not appalled at all. If you want men to come to church honor them and plan things that appeal to them. My church is about 50/50 and we have many programs for men.


15 posted on 08/15/2008 12:34:45 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (If it ain't Rugby or Bullriding, it's for girls.........................................)
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To: normy
I can talk to God daily while working, why join a bunch of unbelievers at a social gathering.

You ain't gonna find that a fundamentalist church. In fact, some of them are man-centered to the point of being unbiblical. (Yes, I know, those are few.) Anyway, some sort of fundamentalist church (i.e. an independent Baptist church or a Southern Baptist church) might suit you.

16 posted on 08/15/2008 12:36:35 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Hogwash! While there may be a numerical difference in adult women vs men at church, it’s certainly no meat market. I’m a man in my 50’s, fit, healthy and dress well. I’ve attended 5 different Protestant churches over the past 4 months as I searched for one whose values and approach to spirituality matched mine.

Most of the unaccompanied women in these churches were over 70 or over 250 lbs.


17 posted on 08/15/2008 12:39:39 PM PDT by CholeraJoe (Warner Brothers SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: normy
Wow!! So I have to ask why aren't you going to church to show them how they have went astray? Believers are the church and we are to worship corporately.
18 posted on 08/15/2008 12:40:18 PM PDT by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: Alex Murphy
I've had a sense of renewing my faith the last few years and visited quite a few churches. Although I've focused on message and culture (too many liberal churches out there), I've seen more men than women.

As a single, I'd love to meet a true Christian conservative woman - too many liberal women masquerading as conservatives.

19 posted on 08/15/2008 12:40:28 PM PDT by newfreep ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." - P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: RobRoy

It has been shown that young men who go to church with their fathers will more likely stay within the church than those young men who only attend with their mothers. Fathers lead by example, always. Their sons always watch them and learn from them.


20 posted on 08/15/2008 12:42:23 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife
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To: MEGoody
I am convinced of God that dominations are of the devil. How can the gospel of Jesus Christ be divided? Can God not teach his servants the same doctrine? When I say all I mean all. I am not talking about people going to hell, I am talking about the devil dividing the Body of Christ along certain lines.

If Jesus is divided then his Kingdom is divided and Jesus himself said a kingdom against itself can't stand. So either the Kingdom of God is divided and about to fall or the "church" as we call it is not of God.

I believe there are people in every denomination on earth who God will call out of their denominations to form the Body of Christ and it will operate in the power Christ operated in.

21 posted on 08/15/2008 12:47:26 PM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine
Which “church” the one that worships Mary or the one that “rocks out” and has beach volleyball Saturday nights?
22 posted on 08/15/2008 12:48:42 PM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: normy

Agreed. If anything, this looks like a case of empire building. Getting more butts in the seats gets you more $$ + bragging rights on how many you’ve “saved” by the latest marketing gimmick.


23 posted on 08/15/2008 12:53:58 PM PDT by BMiles2112
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To: normy

>>I can talk to God daily while working, why join a bunch of unbelievers at a social gathering.<<

I can give you two good reasons:
Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Hebrews 10:25
Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

I am beginning to think that the very thing I most abhored about church is actually one of it’s most important purposes: Christian fellowship. Hanging around with other Christians. Rock climbing, motorcycle and bike riding, you name it.


24 posted on 08/15/2008 12:54:46 PM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: BMiles2112

Why not just teach the bible by the Spirit of Christ? Why all the gimmicks. I think “healing the sick, casting out devils and making the blind to see” would draw a much larger crowd than some #1 best selling author and his self help book speaking on Sunday night.


25 posted on 08/15/2008 12:57:06 PM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: BMiles2112

>>Isn’t anyone else appalled by these ideas and easy use of the terms “marketing” and “promotion” when referring to church attendance?<<

Not me. I consider marketing to be like money. It is not a good or bad thing in itself. Depends on how it is being used. I believe all of life is sales. I suppose that all of life is marketing as well. The word has a very broad definition.

It would be quite easy to make the case that Jesus was marketing and promoting. Heck, I promote the idea of grace every chance I get.


26 posted on 08/15/2008 12:57:08 PM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: RobRoy
Rock climbing, motorcycle and bike riding, you name it

I think that's great! I do that too but I am talking about what these churches offer. Don't we want the truth?

27 posted on 08/15/2008 12:59:53 PM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: TexanToTheCore
If you want men to come to church honor them and plan things that appeal to them.
Shouldn't the church honor God and Him alone? If men don't like it, they should man up and go anyway. If a man has real, theological issues with how a specific church service is run, they should look to change those specific issues or go elsewhere. Going to church for the shiny objects and loud sounds misses the whole point.
28 posted on 08/15/2008 1:03:26 PM PDT by BMiles2112
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To: RobRoy
Thank you for the polite reply.
Marketing is how you present a thing to be sold. If one were trying to sell me "truth", I would be awful suspicious if it were wrapped in a circus.
29 posted on 08/15/2008 1:16:42 PM PDT by BMiles2112
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To: normy

>>I think that’s great! I do that too but I am talking about what these churches offer. Don’t we want the truth?<<

Absolutely! And the church is one of the few places where it WILL be absolute!


30 posted on 08/15/2008 1:18:44 PM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: BMiles2112

I see marketing and selling as synonomous with “presenting”. When I tell someone about the amazing gift of God I am, by definition, selling and marketing. That is really all I was trying to point out. If I try to convince a chef that I have this great ceramic knife and I am willing to give it to him free, I still have to sell it. I have to offer a motivation for him to reach out and grab it as well as quell his fears that it may harm him if he makes the attempt. Further, I am marketing by speaking a language he understands.

I know this is a silly example, but I am merely trying to point out that words like “marketing” in no way offend me when discussing the presentation of the gospel or anything else to people. My offense or lack thereof comes from the context or what the person actually means when they say “marketing”.


31 posted on 08/15/2008 1:24:29 PM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: normy
What you are hitting on is Christianity vs. "Churchianity". Some churches place more emphasis on the innerworkings of their church than spreading the Gospel.

Attending church will not get you into heaven, but believers will find a church home to associate with. Keep searching, good luck.

32 posted on 08/15/2008 1:27:11 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Alex Murphy
Hymns used to be tuned into the masculine heart by alluding to God as a mighty fortress

There are some great hymn in this tradition, including "Hold the Fort" (inspired by the Battle of Allatoona in 1864), "The Fight is On, Oh Christian Soldier," and "The Conflict of the Ages" which are rarely, if ever heard today.

33 posted on 08/15/2008 1:31:24 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: normy

Wow I have never experienced any of those “worship” styles.


34 posted on 08/15/2008 1:37:53 PM PDT by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: BMiles2112

We honor God and His Son, Jesus. But we are also attempting to develop a community of Christians within the larger community and we have found that having social gatherings that appeal to men is effective.

I spent most of my life in feminized denominations and the difference is stark. My church has an active role for men, which is Biblical, but also runs programs that will appeal to them as guys. One can go only so long on potluck dinners, you know.


35 posted on 08/15/2008 1:50:01 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (If it ain't Rugby or Bullriding, it's for girls.........................................)
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To: stevio

I agree. However, ‘giving Praise to the Creator’ and singing ditties are worlds apart. The men I see, Sunday after Sunday, do not seem to want to jump and clap and cheer like they are at a rock concert. Cannot they worship Our Lord and keep their dignity and adulthood intact? If you were having an audience with the King, would you want to jump up and down and clap and cheer, like you were at a sports event? Just seems wrong to me.


36 posted on 08/15/2008 3:37:54 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: RobRoy

bump


37 posted on 08/15/2008 3:43:17 PM PDT by VOA
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To: MrEdd

And married men die younger because they want to.


38 posted on 08/15/2008 3:43:39 PM PDT by MaxMax (I'll welcome death when God calls me. Until then, the fight is on)
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To: TexanToTheCore
I am not appalled at all. If you want men to come to church honor them and plan things that appeal to them. My church is about 50/50 and we have many programs for men.

If the church is going to do lame unscriptural (or non-scriptual things) things to attract men, in the name of marketing.... Well I can think of a lot of really cool things that are not lame that would attract ment, even if they are non scriptural....

Fly a P-51 into the church parking lot.

Have a parchutist drop from the sky and give every guy there a bow and arrow and see if they can hit the parachute.

Have a demolition derby in the church parking lot.

Hand out firecrackers and matches

I mean, come on. If you really want to get men there using marketing tactics.... How non creative can they be?

39 posted on 08/15/2008 3:59:22 PM PDT by BRL
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To: Alex Murphy
“But now worship sounds like a Top-40 love song,” Murrow said.

Quote of the day award.

40 posted on 08/15/2008 5:31:45 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: BRL
Well I can think of a lot of really cool things that are not lame that would attract ment, even if they are non scriptural....

I'd have to disagree with your marketing plan. Think Usherettes in Daisy Dukes and halter tops.

41 posted on 08/15/2008 6:23:41 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Alex Murphy
He must watch his language, mind his manners and be extra polite. It’s hard for a man to be real in church

So a "real man" is not polite or courteous according to this fellow.

Strange. We used to refer to such men as gentlemen and it was the highest class that a men could aspire to.

In fact there was a book written around the turn of the 20th century called, "The Religion of a Gentlemen" that pointed out that immersion in Christianity was the best way to reach such a high level of culture and civility.

But apparently that has gone by the wayside. "Real men" scratch their privates and spit on the floor while yelling obscenities. And any church that would stifle such true expressions of masculinity is "womanized"

Bunk.

The problem with men in the church is that too many of them are lazy. They will come to the cook outs but if there is a Sunday School class that needs a teacher or a fund raiser needs volunteers they have "to much to do".

About two years ago the leader of the men's group in my church came to this realization and decided that the men needed to spend less time having fun and contribute more to the body as a whole.

We now have men teaching Sunday school and classes in the church school. The men work in the food pantry. Men coach the Bible Quizzers. This has greatly expanded the amount of activities that are available to the young people and children of the church. Perhaps a quarter of the children they work with are not generation members. Their parents do not attend services at all. A lot of these kids come from fractured homes. Because of our mens group stepping up they now have strong Christian men as male role models.

And most importantly they have moved from observers to active members. It is now their church. There are still lots of fun and games but it is no longer the main focus.

42 posted on 08/15/2008 8:31:45 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (A good marriage is like a casserole, only those responsible for it really know what goes into it.)
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To: PAR35
“But now worship sounds like a Top-40 love song,” Murrow said.

We refer to them as "Jesus Is My Boyfriend" songs.

43 posted on 08/15/2008 8:36:09 PM PDT by dfwgator ( This tag blank until football season.)
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To: RobRoy
"Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

I hate to be a wet blanket, and this is rather off-topic, but I've seen this verse misused enough that I have to speak up: the subject of the verse is church discipline. It comes at the end of the passage where Christ tells us to confront a sinning brother first on our own, then with witnesses, then in front of the whole congregation.

44 posted on 08/15/2008 9:23:26 PM PDT by Dan Middleton
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To: RobRoy
Another name of a good book to read is the Open Church it tells of all the traditions that have crept in and how they don't relate to the 1st century Church.
45 posted on 08/15/2008 10:07:07 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom)
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To: normy

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!


46 posted on 08/15/2008 10:09:39 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom)
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To: bboop

Go to a Catholic church, we don’t jump up and down.


47 posted on 08/16/2008 7:08:32 AM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: stevio

I do, but I always go to the NO MUSIC mass early in the morning if at all possible.


48 posted on 08/16/2008 7:18:45 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Alex Murphy
It's the Gospel, stupid!

Galatians 3:28:

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

49 posted on 08/16/2008 8:04:51 AM PDT by Calm_Cool_and_Elected (So many books, so little time!)
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To: Calm_Cool_and_Elected
It's the Gospel, stupid!

I wasn't referring to anyone as STUPID, just after that old bumper sticker "It's the economy, stupid".

50 posted on 08/16/2008 8:06:18 AM PDT by Calm_Cool_and_Elected (So many books, so little time!)
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