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Obama and McCain Woo Catholics
MICHAEL WESTFALL'S ...AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES ^ | 8-18-2008 | ANITA CRANE

Posted on 08/17/2008 12:54:10 PM PDT by carolgr

We Catholics find ourselves at a very interesting point in history. Once again, presidential elections are upon us and we represent the largest bloc of religious voters at an estimated 25% of America ’s registered voting population. Therefore, Senators Obama and McCain are out to get our votes.

On the one hand, signatories of Roman Catholics for Obama ’08 claim, “We are real, honest-to-goodness, practicing Catholics who embrace and call attention to Catholic Social Teaching…”

This is unbelievable given Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-IL) record, especially his infamous crusade against the Illinois version of the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which was passed and signed into law before he made it to Congress.

Yet, like Obama, many of his nominally Catholic endorsers have violated the most fundamental human rights taught and defended by the Catholic Church because, as the Church defines it, they cooperated in abortions and human embryonic stem cell research. These evils are so grave that the Vatican ’s Cardinal Angelo Amato called them “terrorism.”

One of Obama’s Catholics, Kansas governor Kathleen Sebelius (D), was personally and publicly informed by Kansas City ’s Archbishop Joseph Naumann that she disqualifies herself from Holy Communion and she should “take the difficult political step, but necessary moral step, of repudiating her past actions in support of legalized abortion.”

(Excerpt) Read more at michaelwestfall.tripod.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholicvote; mccain; obama

1 posted on 08/17/2008 12:54:13 PM PDT by carolgr
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To: carolgr

It may be above my pay grade to state this, but real Catholics are not buying Obama’s line on life.


2 posted on 08/17/2008 12:55:34 PM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E. That spells free. freerepublic.com baby)
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To: carolgr
If you go by Catholicism, Obama should flop. There is though a ton of non-Catholic Catholics who are very liberal.
3 posted on 08/17/2008 12:56:13 PM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy

Or CINOs.


4 posted on 08/17/2008 1:01:06 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Defeat liberalism, its the right thing to do for America.)
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To: imahawk

Now you are making me think about the city of En-cino.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm!


5 posted on 08/17/2008 1:06:07 PM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Coleus; Salvation; NYer; narses

Catholics on FR are better qualified than I am to respond to Obama’s appeal to Catholics.


6 posted on 08/17/2008 1:07:23 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (If Islam conquers the world, the Earth will be at peace because the human race will be killed off.)
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To: carolgr
Any Catholics voting for Obama ought to get double purgatory. And for the sake of emphasis, I'll g throw in my fellow evangelical protestants. For the sin of an Obama vote, my Presbyterian self will allow, if not encourage, the existence of purgatory to accommodate such foolishness.
7 posted on 08/17/2008 1:09:05 PM PDT by tbpiper (McCain is whitebread. Obama is toast.)
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To: carolgr
One of Obama’s Catholics, Kansas governor Kathleen Sebelius (D), was personally and publicly informed by Kansas City ’s Archbishop Joseph Naumann that she disqualifies herself from Holy Communion and she should “take the difficult political step, but necessary moral step, of repudiating her past actions in support of legalized abortion.”

Like everything else about Obama, even his Catholics are make-pretend.

8 posted on 08/17/2008 1:14:51 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: pax_et_bonum
Obama and McCain Woo Catholics

Ping to you, so easily wooed.....

9 posted on 08/17/2008 1:15:18 PM PDT by humblegunner (I'm voting for McCain because he's white.)
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To: mware
It may be above my pay grade to state this, but real Catholics are not buying Obama’s line on life.

In which case then, there are only half as many Catholics out there than you guys claim...

Trouble is, if they've been baptized, you're stuck with 'em...

10 posted on 08/17/2008 1:32:26 PM PDT by Iscool (If Obama becomes the President, it will be an Obama-nation)
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To: mware

How can any Catholic vote for such a Pro-Abortion Baby Killer like Obama???


11 posted on 08/17/2008 1:44:59 PM PDT by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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To: tbpiper

I agree. I’m amazed at the people I hear talking about supporting Obama. Arghhhhhhh.


12 posted on 08/17/2008 1:55:55 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: carolgr; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

13 posted on 08/17/2008 1:59:32 PM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: tbpiper

I must admit, that is one heck of good post, done with theological precision, and a good sense of humor

Kudos from this Catholic

Pax et bonum


14 posted on 08/17/2008 2:00:32 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: carolgr

The Knights of Columbus does more to promote pro life values than many of our Priests do at the pulpit.

The fact that the Catholic population does not understand/care to know the facts about different candidates or reflect on their Catholic values to determine who they vote for is tragic and inexcusable.


15 posted on 08/17/2008 2:25:04 PM PDT by Mr. Binnacle (Baby, Everybody's Had to Fight to be Free - Tom Petty)
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To: carolgr
Well this Catholic 'ain't' voting for him, that's for darn sure.

Everything Obama is for, or believes in, is IMHO contrary to the basic tenets of Christianity in general. And that's because he's a communist.

He may espouse 'Matthew' but he's got 'Marx' in his heart.

16 posted on 08/17/2008 2:25:35 PM PDT by Condor51 (I have guns in my nightstand because a Cop won't fit)
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To: carolgr; Salvation; narses; NYer; A.A. Cunningham; LtKerst; tbpiper

Again, lets not confuse practicing Catholics with CINO’s.

Obama has two chances of winning...slim & none and “Slim” just left the building. LOL


17 posted on 08/17/2008 2:47:56 PM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: carolgr
So by Chaput's logic, McCain might be the lesser of the evils even though he does not have a 100% stellar pro-life stance like we have been told. He voted for embryonic stem cell research which I forgot.

And some scientific researcher argues that embryonic/fetal stem cells won't work anyway. I'm sure there are others who argue the opposite.

What a conundrum. On that alone, I don't want to vote for McCain, could bring myself around if he had a true change of heart and mind. No one can talk me into or out of anything. I am the decider of how I vote, and I do highly regard Catholic moral teachings on this issue; indeed were it not for that, I might have swerved a different way myself. To my knowledge, the Catholic church is the only Christian religious body that speaks out on this issue with such clarity (at the magisterial level).

Chaput's letter was a little confusing when I read it.

18 posted on 08/17/2008 2:50:55 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: carolgr
Catholic beliefs about Abortion:

enter the Table of Contents of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here

1: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271  (618 bytes )  preview document matches
1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm
97%**********

2: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272  (580 bytes )  preview document matches
2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2272.htm
96%**********

3: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322  (290 bytes )  preview document matches
2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2322.htm
96%**********

4: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274  (554 bytes )  preview document matches
gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2274.htm

19 posted on 08/17/2008 2:53:05 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Clintonfatigued

You do fine. Not to worry!


20 posted on 08/17/2008 2:53:49 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: tbpiper

**Any Catholics voting for Obama ought to get double purgatory. And for the sake of emphasis, I’ll g throw in my fellow evangelical protestants.**

For Catholics it is worse that Purgatory. It is a mortal sin, which if when a Catholic dies without having repented that vote/mortal sin — those Catholics will be bound for Hell.

See the quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.


21 posted on 08/17/2008 2:56:27 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: tbpiper

Catholics also excommunicate themselves from the Catholic Church by voting in support of abortion.


22 posted on 08/17/2008 2:57:06 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: LtKerst

We can’t without the threat of grave sin. See my previous two posts.


23 posted on 08/17/2008 2:58:15 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Marysecretary

Tell them the truth — even if you end up sounding like a Catholic.

They will be supporting murder and that is against the Commandment, “Thou shalt not kill.”


24 posted on 08/17/2008 2:59:18 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: LtKerst; antonius

25 posted on 08/17/2008 2:59:55 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Mr. Binnacle

Oh, my you should have heard our deacon’s homily last night and today. He talked about this issue and supporting votes for candidates that support life at all stages.

Guts!

He framed it around the prejudices against the Canaanite woman and how prejudices work there ways into our voting. (Going with the left.)


26 posted on 08/17/2008 3:02:21 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Aliska

Did you hear McCain’s prompt reply to Rick Warren last night when he was asked when life for a human began?

His immediate reply was “Conception.”

When Obama was asked the same question he weaseled out of it by saying it was above his pay grade.

(Guess he doesn’t plan on going to heaven, huh?) That’s the pay grade for ministers and priests who support those who seek help with the abortion question! Something to think about.


27 posted on 08/17/2008 3:06:30 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: carolgr
Obama and McCain Woo Catholics
Editorial: At the Saddleback Forum, Senator McCain and Pastor Warren took the Gold

Religious Voters Favor McCain, Poll Claims
Sen. McCain holds private meeting with Archbishop Chaput
John McCain's Remarks on Abortion in Speech to National Pro-Life Convention
McCain campaign plans ‘very aggressive’ outreach to Catholic voters
McCain Meets with Selected Catholic Leaders

28 posted on 08/17/2008 3:09:25 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

I do tell them, believe me. Catholics have been stalwart in the fight to protect the unborn. I don’t mind sounding like them at all in this fight for life. Love, M


29 posted on 08/17/2008 3:19:00 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Salvation
It would appear that way (about the heaven) issue, but I am not the decider of that :-).

Sorry that I missed what happened last night; I'll try to find a synopsis of that. All I read so far is that the left is underwhelmed with Obama's performance (not that it will change any minds and hearts).

Sometimes it almost seems like God is not on our side; that is when it takes real faith to keep going and stay the course. Christians are taking a real hit of late, but nothing compared to the sufferings of some even to martyrdom under the yoke of other repressions in the world at large. I fear our turn is coming. It doesn't look possible sometimes, but I wonder . . .

30 posted on 08/17/2008 3:27:06 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Marysecretary

Thanks, Mary. God will bless you abundantly.


31 posted on 08/17/2008 3:35:56 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Aliska

Do a search for Saddleback

A lot of the those forum posts will come up and I know there were linked CNN, Cspan, YouTube references. I also think that Fox will re-run it.


32 posted on 08/17/2008 3:37:13 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Thank you, Salvation. Will do.


33 posted on 08/17/2008 3:38:58 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: mware
What a super reply!
34 posted on 08/17/2008 5:03:09 PM PDT by AKA Elena (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you!)
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To: Salvation

Thank you. He already has. Love, M


35 posted on 08/17/2008 9:22:36 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: carolgr

Ugh, I hate “social justice” Catholics. Why don’t they just become Episcopalian already????

All Catholics who vote for Democrats should be excommunicated!!


36 posted on 08/18/2008 2:04:31 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Election 2008--It's all about the judges!!)
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