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"Catholic" Speaker Pelosi Denies that Catholicism Condemns Abortion
LifeSiteNews ^ | Monday August 25, 2008 | John Jalsevac

Posted on 08/25/2008 11:46:50 AM PDT by Antioch

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You can't be a Pelosi and a Catholic at the same time. I never realized how disturbed and evil this woman was

When life begins is a non-issue in the debate on abortion? It shouldn't have an impact on the woman's right to choose?

1 posted on 08/25/2008 11:46:50 AM PDT by Antioch
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To: Antioch

Her Bishop just needs to bitch slap her.


2 posted on 08/25/2008 11:49:48 AM PDT by Artemis Webb ("The church is near, but the road is icy. The bar is far away, but I will walk carefully.")
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To: Antioch

Didn’t I see her in a photo, meeting the pope? She was being very deferential.... maybe if they are on speaking terms, he can politely refresh her memory on the basics of Catholicism. Heck, I am not even Catholic and I understand that one!


3 posted on 08/25/2008 11:50:13 AM PDT by SMARTY ('At some point you get tired of swatting flies, and you have to go for the manure heap' Gen. LeMay)
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To: Artemis Webb

Here she is lying in living color.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUSt7dfj5I

“Can’t reduce abortions without contraception” Oh yes, that’s ardent Catholicism, rat-style


4 posted on 08/25/2008 11:56:43 AM PDT by Antioch (Benedikt Gott Geschickt)
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To: narses; kstewskis; Raquel; Tax-chick; american colleen; NYer; kassie; Miss Marple; MozartLover
Pelosi should be excommunicated.

I don't say this lightly. She has just brought scandal to the church, and if the church doesn't take action it creates even more confusion to the average Catholic.

5 posted on 08/25/2008 11:58:08 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: Antioch

Pelosi: “Is the Pope Catholic?”


6 posted on 08/25/2008 11:58:12 AM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: Antioch

One wonders if she even knows the Apostle Creed?


7 posted on 08/25/2008 11:59:37 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: Antioch; NYer; Salvation

She is begging for a showdown with the Vatican, hoping people will then condemn the Church’s meddling in the US presidential election.


8 posted on 08/25/2008 11:59:44 AM PDT by Notwithstanding ("You are either with America in our time of need or you are not" - Hillary from Senate well 9/12/01)
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To: Artemis Webb

“Her Bishop just needs to bitch slap her.”

He’d cut his hand on her mug. So what really needs to happen is that she needs to be called out as excommunicated (even though she already is by her own actions) for not only supporting baby butchery, and publicly claiming that support of baby butchery is perfectly fine with Church teaching.

Freegards


9 posted on 08/25/2008 12:00:46 PM PDT by Ransomed (Son of Ransomed says Keep the Faith!)
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To: Antioch
Grounds for excommunication?
Excommunication, in the sense of a formal proceeding, is not a penalty at all but simply a formal proclamation of a pre-existing condition in a more or less prominent member of the Roman Catholic Church. When such a person commits acts that in themselves separate him from the communion of the Faithful, particularly when by word, deed, or example he "spreads division and confusion among the Faithful", it is necessary for the Church to clarify the situation by means of a formal announcement, which informs the laity that this is not a person to follow, and notifies the clergy that this person, by his own willful acts, has separated himself from the Church and is no longer to receive the sacraments, with the exception of Reconciliation.
The decree may also indicate the mode of Reconciliation required for re-entry into the Church, specifying whether the local bishop may administer the process or it is reserved to the Pope. Excommunication is never a merely "vindictive penalty" (designed solely to punish). It is always used as a "medicinal penalty" intended to pressure the person into changing their behaviour or statements, repent and return to full communion.

10 posted on 08/25/2008 12:01:04 PM PDT by Mr. Binnacle (Baby, Everybody's Had to Fight to be Free - Tom Petty)
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To: Antioch
Why doesn't the Catholic Church excommunicate pro-abortion politicians who pretend to be practicing Catholics? This has been going on for over 30 years, and the church does nothing. And why don't they even remove a political radical like Pfleger from the pulpit? I see more hypocrisy from the Catholic church than from even the left-leaning denominations.
11 posted on 08/25/2008 12:04:59 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Antioch

godless liberals are a piece of work!


12 posted on 08/25/2008 12:05:30 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: Always Right

Please keep in mind that virtually every Democrat “Catholic” Senator supports abortion and most promote abortion. The Bishops know this and silently, except for occasional lip service, do nothing.

Will any of the 17 Democrat Senators be admonished and sanctioned by the Catholic Church? Will they be denied Catholic Rites? I don’t think so.

The Bishops speak in unison about Illegal Immigration. They are silent when Catholis politicann openly defy the Pope. Keep giving in the pews.


13 posted on 08/25/2008 12:05:54 PM PDT by paguch
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To: Antioch

Here’s a discussion and refutation of Pelosi as an historical, theological matter:

http://catholidoxy.blogspot.com/2008/08/pelosi-on-mtp-catholic-tradition-vague.html


14 posted on 08/25/2008 12:06:45 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Artemis Webb
Her Bishop just needs to bitch slap her.

Now that's funny! Her archbishop at home is George Niederauer; now infamous for allowing the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to receive the Eucharist and for defending itself for doing the same , and Pelosi's archbishop in Washington DC is Donald Wuerl...who has been savaged by conservative Catholics for refusing to bar pro-choice Catholics such as Kerry and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi from the Communion rail. I wouldn't hold my breath.

"Where the bishop is, there is the Catholic church."

15 posted on 08/25/2008 12:07:31 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (What can I say? It's a gift. And I didn't get a receipt, so I can't exchange it.)
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To: Antioch

hey lets all leave poor 9% nancy alone. Maybe she wasn’t in church that day when this info was gone over. Maybe they handed out a memo and she never got it...

I mean Barack was not in church that day that his pastor called it the “USA of KKK” etc...


16 posted on 08/25/2008 12:08:03 PM PDT by Holicheese (Rasdower, Zap Rasdower!)
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To: Antioch

And I’m not sure about Rush’s show today, which I caught at the end of his taking issue with Pelosi on this. He was very immpassioned like always, but tell someone if I’m wrong here, but I thought he took “Doctors of the Church” as we Catholics understand to be merely medical doctors who happened to be Catholic. If so, one of his Catholic friends will contact him tonight and set him straight.

Nevertheless, it doesn’t one whit change his basic point that in no way ever has or does in any instance the Catholic church consider abortion ever having been controversial or up for discussion as optional.


17 posted on 08/25/2008 12:11:32 PM PDT by SaintDismas
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To: paguch
You have to keep in mind that many of the left-leaning Catholic Bishops have de facto formed their own schismatic liberal variant of Catholicism, both in terms of rubrics and morality. Evidently, tolerance of blatant violations of traditional, core tenets of the Magisterium is a central value of theirs.
18 posted on 08/25/2008 12:11:43 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture™)
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To: Antioch

This is the new breed of heretic. Heresy for the 21st century—no need to try to justify or attempt to explain your heresy just say the church does not condemn _________ (insert heresy).

She makes me sick.


19 posted on 08/25/2008 12:11:53 PM PDT by Nubbin (a REAL Catholic Christian)
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To: wequalswinner

arrggghhh!!! what I meant to say “will someone tell me”


20 posted on 08/25/2008 12:13:12 PM PDT by SaintDismas
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To: Antioch

My brain hurts (like the aflaak duck) trying to comprehend what the headline means and what she is saying. (old pro life quote: Anyone who ever bought a condom knows exactly when life begins.)


21 posted on 08/25/2008 12:15:39 PM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: Mr. Binnacle

Unfortunately Archbishop Wuerl has said publicly that he would not discipline or direct priests to deny communion to Pelosi.

To be heard, you’ll have to contact the Apostolic Nuncio:

Archbishop Pietro Sambi
3339 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W, Washington, DC, USA
Telephone: 202 333-7121
Fax: 202 337-4036

or the Congregation for Bishops

Piazza Pio XII 10
00193
Rome, Italy
Fax: 011.39.6.69.88.53.03

Maybe it won’t stop Pelosi from publically scandalizing the Church, but at least it may put the brake’s on the Milquetoast Archbishop’s career aspirations


22 posted on 08/25/2008 12:19:14 PM PDT by Antioch (Benedikt Gott Geschickt)
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To: Antioch

And ignorant. Just disturbed, evil and downright ignorant. What a fool. Every rat should be ashamed of himself that they allowed her to soil the speakers chair.


23 posted on 08/25/2008 12:23:29 PM PDT by ichabod1 (It's all fun and games until Russia starts invading Eastern Europe (pete))
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To: Antioch
Wonder how she'd explain this?

Jeremiah 1:5

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

24 posted on 08/25/2008 12:25:10 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW ("Make yourself sheep, and the wolves will eat you" Benjamin Franklin)
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To: wequalswinner
"...but I thought Rush took “Doctors of the Church” as we Catholics understand to be merely medical doctors who happened to be Catholic. If so, one of his Catholic friends will contact him tonight and set him straight."

I caught that too. I believe his brother David is Catholic. He certainly will set him straight.

25 posted on 08/25/2008 12:26:44 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: Antioch

.......and up is down, day is night, yada yada yada. I hope more bishops will stand up and condemn these people.


26 posted on 08/25/2008 12:26:59 PM PDT by purpleraine
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To: Northern Yankee
...it creates even more confusion to the average Catholic.

Catholic Democrats have been confusing to Protestants for decades! That's not to say that Catholics have a monopoly on creating confusion.

I remember telling a Baptist deacon who was supporting Bill Clinton at the time, "You can be a good Baptist, or you can be a Democrat-- but you can't be both.

27 posted on 08/25/2008 12:33:43 PM PDT by lonestar
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To: Antioch

And now Nancy is opposing the views of her Pope?

Amazing, absolutely amazing.


28 posted on 08/25/2008 12:46:38 PM PDT by quintr
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To: Antioch

So if Michelle announces her pregnancy tonight, or in the near future, someone should ask her if the baby is alive and has the right to live


29 posted on 08/25/2008 12:48:03 PM PDT by quintr
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To: Antioch
The official position of the Catholic church on abortion seems clear and unambiguous: No.
How hard can that be for an “ardent Catholic” to understand?
30 posted on 08/25/2008 1:05:37 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: paguch

Has the Catholic Church in America sold its right to speak out against abortion by filing 501(c)3 tax exempt status?


31 posted on 08/25/2008 1:24:42 PM PDT by muglywump
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To: count-your-change
Nancy Pelosi apparently thinks "ardent" is a synonym for "ignorant."

Some of the early church fathers seem to have thought the soul entered the body some time after conception, but that doesn't mean they approved of killing the fetus. One of the oldest non-Biblical Christian texts, the Didache, condemns abortion.

32 posted on 08/25/2008 1:25:44 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Antioch

FYI, here is a response to Pelosi’s comments from the Archbishop of Denver (letter in pdf format):

http://www.archden.org/images/ArchbishopCorner/ByTopic/onseparationofsense%26state_openlettercjc8.25.08.pdf


33 posted on 08/25/2008 1:45:20 PM PDT by frankjr
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To: Antioch

Someone needs to ask her who was Jesus’ father and what happens to the Host during communion.


34 posted on 08/25/2008 2:12:49 PM PDT by naturalized
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To: Antioch

I hope she repents in time to receive her Last Rights.


35 posted on 08/25/2008 2:34:16 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obama's Pay Grade: Chump Change - Under the Cone of Stupid)
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To: frankjr

I’m not happy that Chaput has to do what should be the task of Wuerl and Niederauer, but at least he’s demonstrated to this clueless harridan that she can’t be an ardent cafeteria catholic.


36 posted on 08/25/2008 3:41:42 PM PDT by Antioch (Benedikt Gott Geschickt)
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To: Antioch

She should know better - an Italian girl from East baltimore - educated in good Catholic Schools.

She should be ashamed - and as an italian - I say she is a DISGRACE to the vowel at the end of her name.

BTW - what is a harridan? - I get the clueless part.


37 posted on 08/25/2008 3:46:10 PM PDT by palomonte
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To: Antioch
Denver archbishop slams Pelosi on Church teachings and abortion
Pelosi, Abortion & St. Augustine - UPDATED
How should Catholics vote? [editorial from the LA Times]
"Catholic" Speaker Pelosi Denies that Catholicism Condemns Abortion
“Help me out here, Madam Speaker” ( “I don't think anybody can tell you when life begins” )

Biden's Catholic faith offers risks, rewards
Nancy Pelosi on when life begins (Smarter than Obama?
Obama, Biden, Foreign Policy and the Catholic Vote
The "Abortion Joe" Biden will get his ticket a record low Catholic vote
Obama's Falsehood: The Truth About His Abortion Record

EDITORIAL:Obama Chooses Biden and the Battle for Life is Engaged
Joe Biden Makes It Easier for Catholics to Oppose Pro-Abortion Barack Obama
Obamacide
McCain attacks Obama on pro-abortion stance
Barack Obama's Sole Article in Harvard Law Review Promotes Abortion

Why Obama Really Voted For Infanticide
Obama's Born-Alive Problem
William A. Donohue: Catholic Left Hangs Itself (5/22/08) [Abortion]
"Until they have reformed their lives" ( No Holy Communion for pro-abortion Catholics!)
African American Pro-Life Leader Tells Barack Obama: No We Can't OK Abortion

OBAMA AND INFANTICIDE (Reinhard)
They'd be angry at Obama if he was caught saying the N-word. Supporting Infanticide—Not so much.
In 2002, Barack Obama Supported Infanticide and I've Got the Transcript of His Words
Explosive Audio Found - Obama arguing against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act - Audio
Transcript of Obama's verbal opposition to Born Alive on the IL Senate floor

Explosive Audio Found Obama arguing against BAIPA
Audio Found Obama arguing against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act
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EXTRA: Archbishop Burke on Catholics who Support Abortion
Senator Barack Obama Wants You to Pay for Abortions
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John McCain Will Not Pick Pro-Abortion Running Mate, Rules Out Tom Ridge
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Catholics who support abortion should not receive Communion, says Archbishop Burke (again :-)
CNN Again Omits Part of the Story Concerning Obama’s Abortion Votes

Obama Flunks Rick Warren's Abortion Question
Obama and the Black American Family Don’t Jibe [Abortion]
Obama Caught Red-Handed in Abortion Lie
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Obama Facing Attacks >From All Sides Over Abortion Record

OBAMA'S EXTREMISM - HIS ABORTION RECORD IS NO LIE
Barack Obama - Abortion Extremist
Barack Obama lied about babies ‘Born Alive’ vote then smeared Corsi
Babies' Rights and the Definition of Marriage [re: Forum responses by Obama vs. McCain]
Opinion: Doug Kmiec on McCain v. Obama at Saddleback

Obama Cover-up on Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Continues to Unravel...
Life Lies: Barack Obama and Born-Alive
Operation Rescue founder to distribute new flyer: "Is it Immoral to Vote for Obama for President?"
Obama Calls Pro-Lifers Liars
Obama Jun 15: “fathers…at conception” August 16 “answering that question is above my pay grade”

Niece of Martin Luther King Jr. to Lead Prayer Vigil Outside Largest U.S. Abortion Centre
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Obama “pay grade” comment purposely ignores SCIENTIFIC FACT that LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION
Barack Obama Repeats False Claim Abortions Haven't Declined Under Bush
Obama and Abortion

Obama Says Right to Life Coalition Is Lying About His Record
Barack Obama Says Pro-Life Group Lying About His Pro-Infanticide Votes
Obama's infanticide problem>
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Obama's 10 reasons for supporting infanticide
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Obama’s Abortion Lies (Obama cover-up on born-alive survivors bill)

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Knighting the Catholic Vote (K of C urging Catholics to vote pro-life)
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COMMENTARY: Quandry for Catholics At Election Time
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Obama's Abortion Bombshell: Unrestricted Abortion....
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Editorial: Disagreeing with Doug Kmiec One More Time
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DOUG KMIEC: Catholic Reasons for Hope in the General Election
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Thoughts On ‘Roman Catholics For Obama’

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38 posted on 08/25/2008 3:48:37 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Antioch; antonius

39 posted on 08/25/2008 3:49:22 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Northern Yankee
**Pelosi should be excommunicated.**

She has excommunicated herself by supporting abortion and is no longer able to be communicated -- receive Communion.

enter the Table of Contents of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here

1: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271  (618 bytes )  preview document matches
1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm
97%**********

2: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272  (580 bytes )  preview document matches
2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2272.htm
96%**********

3: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322  (290 bytes )  preview document matches
2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2322.htm
96%**********

4: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274  (554 bytes )  preview document matches
gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2274.htm

40 posted on 08/25/2008 3:52:41 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: palomonte

Harridan: a scolding, vicious woman; hag; shrew. [Origin: 1690–1700; from the french “haridelle”... meaning a “thin, worn-out horse or large, gaunt woman


41 posted on 08/25/2008 3:55:20 PM PDT by Antioch (Benedikt Gott Geschickt)
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To: Antioch

thanks - i thought it meant harlot.


42 posted on 08/25/2008 3:58:32 PM PDT by palomonte
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To: Antioch
2270!

CCC Paragraph 2270

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.


43 posted on 08/25/2008 3:58:56 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: muglywump
Has the Catholic Church in America sold its right to speak out against abortion by filing 501(c)3 tax exempt status?

Um. No.

44 posted on 08/25/2008 4:07:05 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper (A vote for third party is a vote for nObama)
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To: Antioch

Careful - some people on here are going to conflate Pelosi’s statements to “Official Vatican Policy” and then demand to know why Catholics are in favor of abortion. I see one of them already trying.


45 posted on 08/25/2008 4:16:55 PM PDT by Hacksaw
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To: Hacksaw
Careful - some people on here are going to conflate Pelosi’s statements to “Official Vatican Policy” and then demand to know why Catholics are in favor of abortion. I see one of them already trying.

I hate to be the one to say this, but, 'Official Vatican Policy' seems to be meaningless outside of the Vatican...

The Vaticans's Bishops as well as who knows how many Cardinals and of course, priests, totally ignore the Vatican Policy...

Appears as tho there really is no Vatican policy...

46 posted on 08/25/2008 4:49:23 PM PDT by Iscool (If Obama becomes the President, it will be an Obama-nation)
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To: Antioch; narses

Peggy Noonan nailed this one to the wall when she said in her recent article that everyone who’s ever used a condom knows exactly when life begins.


47 posted on 08/25/2008 6:52:59 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Iscool
I hate to be the one to say this, but, 'Official Vatican Policy' seems to be meaningless outside of the Vatican...

It is not.

The Vaticans's Bishops as well as who knows how many Cardinals and of course, priests, totally ignore the Vatican Policy...

False.

Appears as tho there really is no Vatican policy...

With your eyes wide shut.

48 posted on 08/25/2008 6:55:00 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Antioch
What a buffoon she is! Her "dodge" is really pathetic, if you think about it. She resorts to Catholic theologians who lived way before the advent of modern biology and microscopy, who, in their own day, clearly did have some room for speculation on this point (though, even then, they would have erred on the side of caution for the most part).

However! The advances in embryology alone over the last 100+ years have removed all doubt as to when and how fertilization occurs, and how the initial cell grows via division. That aspect alone proves that the fertilized ovum is "alive." At least on the same level as single-celled and primitive mullti-celled organisms are indisputably "alive." Advances in genetics, at any rate, clearly tell us that this dividing mass of cells is not just the same morally as simple organisms. The Church Fathers she is so fond of quoting certainly knew nothing about the genetics involved, so they would be equally incompetent witnesses to her argument on this point. From the beginning, we are talking about what is genetically human. There is no room for denial on this point!

But, from a Catholic perspective - which, she protests that she "practices ardently" - there's more! The dogma of the Immaculate Conception should, for any "Catholic," remove all doubt on the matter. By derivation from the definition of the dogma, Mary was conceived "immaculate," and, since this refers to the state of her soul, and since only human beings are conceived with souls where this could even be an issue, it follows that Mary, from the first moment of her conception in her mother's womb, was a "human being" in the eyes of God, composed of a body (however tiny at the time) and an immortal soul>. She was, then, "alive" in the fullest sense, and as "human" as Pelosi allegedly is now herself.

Again, the Immaculate Conception is a dogma binding on all of the Catholic faithful. Pelosi, as a Catholic, is obliged to embrace this, as well as its logical implications. She hasn't got a leg to stand on in here pitiful argumentation. She should be publicly excommunicated just on the basis of her Meet the Press comments alone, on the grounds that she has given scandal to potentially millions of Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, and injected patent falsehoods into the discussion for the pseudo-edification of many ignorant people who are subject to the misinformation she sputtered. Matthew 18:6-9 was surely spoken by Jesus with just this sort of a miserable excuse for a human being in mind! She needs prayers, but, for the present, and for her own spiritual medicine as well as that of countless of her "followers," she needs to be "shown the door" and bounced-out of the Church. With the upturned candles and the whole bit! And the Kennedy-Kerry-Biden wing along with her!

49 posted on 08/25/2008 6:55:23 PM PDT by magisterium
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To: magisterium; Antioch
[Pelosi] needs prayers, but, for the present, and for her own spiritual medicine as well as that of countless of her "followers," she needs to be "shown the door" and bounced-out of the Church...And the Kennedy-Kerry-Biden wing along with her!

That will be the day! We have yet to see the Church have enough courage to publicly deny communion to any of these.

Otherwise, the Catechism is not worth the paper it's written on and the Church is no different then the Anglican Communion, where anything goes.

It is clear that the Church is not ready for a confrontation; rather she's "appealing" to these people to "avoid communion" on their own! How likely is that going to be?!?

As long as Pelosi and others like her can publicly disagree with the Vatican without any repercussions, the message to all Catholics is: believe and do whatever you feel is right; the Church will not censure you.

Sooner or later, empty threats and warnings become a laughing matter. If the Church is not ready to stand by her own teachings, how can she expect the faithful to stand by them?!?

I'm waiting...

50 posted on 08/26/2008 4:58:22 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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