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Why Mary Appears/The Mariology Gap (Cath-Orth Caucus)
Zenit News ^ | 2008-09-03 | Irene Lagan

Posted on 09/04/2008 3:24:18 PM PDT by annalex

ZE08090302 - 2008-09-03

Why Mary Appears

Interview With Mariologist Mark Miravalle (Part 1)

By Irene Lagan

STEUBENVILLE, Ohio, SEPT. 3, 2008 ( Private Marian apparitions serve to remind mankind that God exists, and to provide an opportunity to conduct a "global examination of conscience," according to Mariologist Mark Miravalle.

The professor of theology at Franciscan University of Steubenville will be a speaker at the 22nd International Mariological Marian Congress, to begin Thursday in Lourdes.

The congresses, held every four years, are sponsored by the Pontifical International Marian Academy. This year's theme is "The Apparitions of the Most Holy Virgin Mary: Between History, Faith and Theology."

Benedict XVI named Cardinal Paul Poupard, retired president of the Pontifical Councils for Culture and Interreligious Dialogue, as his special envoy to the Marian conference. The Pope will visit the shrine later this month for the 150th anniversary of the Marian apparitions.

Miravalle, author of "Mariology: A Guide for Priests, Deacons, and Seminarians, and Consecrated Persons" (Queenship Publishing), discusses in the first part of this interview with ZENIT the significance of the congress and the importance of Marian apparitions for our times.

Part 2 of this interview will appear Thursday.

Q. What is the significance of this congress, one week before the Pope's visit to Lourdes, and what is the significance of Benedict XVI's Lourdes pilgrimage?

Miravalle: The Holy Father does not hesitate to celebrate authentic Marian private revelation nor does the Church, as is evidenced by his Lourdes visit. Pope Benedict is quick to acknowledge one of the world's most renowned Marian fonts of conversion, grace and healing that has flowed to the five continents through the true apparitions of the Immaculate Conception at Lourdes.

Pope Benedict XVI, as did John Paul II before him, also acknowledges the organic connection between the Lourdes apparitions and the particular trials of the sick throughout the world, which is recognized every year on the Lourdes anniversary of Feb. 11, now designated as the World Day of the Sick.

This Holy Father is very much following the course of John Paul II in highlighting Our Lady's co-redemptive role with Jesus as the perfect model for the people of God on how we should patiently "offer up" our sufferings and illnesses in union with Christ for the mysterious release of grace for others, making us co-redeemers as well.

Hopefully, the anticipatory Mariological-Marian congress can help prepare for the Pope's visit by presenting and articulating the theology of the Church regarding Marian private revelation.

Q. What is the purpose of this congress?

Miravalle: I believe the purpose of the conference is to theologically and scientifically examine the domain of Marian private revelation, in its nature, its history, and its contemporary relevance.

As Rene Laurentin summarized, the Church essentially examines the three criteria of message, phenomena and spiritual fruits when discerning a reported revelation.

Laurentin also mentioned once that if Lourdes happened today it would probably not be accepted in light of the heightened scepticism and rationalism of our times. In this age of greater rationalism, materialism, consumerism and humanism, the possibility of the supernatural seems more and more diminished for the common person.

And yet, God continues to "interfere" in human history by sending the Mother of Jesus, particularly in times when a more rationalistic vision has made acts of Christian faith more difficult. The human family needs to be reminded, sometimes in a dynamic and supernatural way, that God exists, that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a universal call, that we all will be held responsible for our human choices, and that, over all, the world could benefit from a type of "global examination of conscience" on how well we are responding to the ubiquitous invitations from the "Hound of Heaven," as the poet [Francis] Thompson refers to God, for personal salvation and for world peace. But it remains up to us to respond.

The Church is appropriately both cautious and open to the domain of private revelation. She can never run the risk of losing credibility as guardian of public revelation by a too hasty confirmation of a reported private revelation, let alone something false. And yet, we can see the sublimely generous fruits of authentic Marian private revelation, which is but a heavenly spark to compel the world to living the saving message of the Gospel in the fullness of the Church, and as well to assist the Church's ongoing mission of evangelization.

Imagine the 16th century without Guadalupe, or the 19th and 20th centuries without Rue du Bac, Lourdes and Fatima. While always remaining obedient to the Church's definitive judgment on a given revelation, we should thank God for the tremendous graces and blessings brought to the world through the avenue of authentic Marian apparitions.

Q: Are there more reported and approved Marian apparitions in this age than in other ages?

Miravalle: There have been more apparitions approved in the contemporary era than in any other era in the Church's history. We must keep in mind that the nature and purpose of private revelation is never to replace public revelation contained in Scripture and Tradition, but rather to accentuate the more challenging aspects of the Gospel. For example, the call to be more generous in prayer, to fasting regularly, and to committed conversion, which alone leads to a spiritual peace of heart.

If true Marian apparitions are on the increase in our times, it means our age is in greater need of encouragement to live generously the prayer and sacramental life of the Church. We should be grateful, but we should also, as Blessed Pope John XXIII said in his Feb. 18, 1959, Lourdes address, "listen attentively to the salutary warnings of the Mother of God," which seek to "guide us in our conduct."

Q: What topic will you be discussing at the Lourdes congress?

Miravalle: My presentation will be on the theme of Mary's unique cooperation in the redemption as it appears in the 19th- and 20th-century approved Marian apparitions.

In the apparitions of the "Miraculous Medal" in 1830, Lourdes in 1858, Fatima in 1917, Amsterdam in 1945, and Akita, Japan, in the 1970s, the theme of Our Lady's co-redemption, as well as the Marian call for Christian co-redemption by the people of God is a pronounced, consistent theme.

The Mother of Jesus uniquely shared as "Co-redemptrix" with Jesus in accomplishing the world's redemption. But we are all called to offer prayer and penance to God in reparation for sin and for the conversion of sinners throughout this Marian message to the modern world.

Bernadette echoed Our Lady's call for "penance, penance, penance." Our Lady of Fatima asked the children visionaries to daily pray the rosary for conversion of sinners and world peace, to "make of everything you can a sacrifice," and Our Lady appeared as "Our Lady of Sorrows" during the Oct. 13, 1917, apparition of the solar miracle.

The statue of the Lady of All Nations at Akita, Japan, wept 101 times and the apparitions and phenomena were declared supernatural by Bishop [John] Ito of Niigata after consultation with Cardinal [Joseph] Ratzinger in 1984. The apparitions of the Lady of All Nations, approved by Bishop [Joseph] Punt of Amsterdam as authentic in 2002, furthered the call for Christian co-redemption as well as for the solemn definition of Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix and advocate.

It should be no surprise that the truth of Our Lady's unique role with Jesus in redemption as taught explicitly by the magisterium during the last two centuries is mirrored in the domain of ecclesiastically approved private revelation from the same historical time period.

Q. The theme of Mary as co-redemptrix is also the subject of discussion concerning a possible fifth Marian dogma. What would be the potential benefits of proclaiming this dogma at this time for the Church?

Miravalle: I believe a papal definition would have numerous positive effects for the Church. It would articulate this perennial doctrine of Our Lady's unique role, which is entirely dependent on Jesus Christ, divine and human redeemer of all, with the greatest possible scriptural and theological clarity. It's hard to think of a more a capable pontiff for such a definition than our own genial Pope-theologian, Pope Benedict, if he would so desire to make this proclamation.

I also believe that this dogma would serve the ecumenical mission of the Church by assuring other Christian traditions that the Catholic Church does distinguish between Jesus Christ as the divine and human Redeemer upon whom all redemption depends, and the unique participation of his immaculate human mother in the history of salvation.

The dogma would also focus the people of God upon their Christian duty to participate in the salvation of others. Would this not be the antidote to the isolation and loneliness of so many? Is this not answering the call to the new evangelism, and the call of Our Lady of Fatima to pray and do penance for the conversion of sinners? It would in fact be a clear answer on the part of the Church for all those who fear that suffering is meaningless. On the contrary, for the Christian, human suffering is always supernaturally and eternally redemptive.

--- --- ---

On the Net:

Miravalle's "Mariology":

© Innovative Media, Inc.

ZE08090401 - 2008-09-04

The Mariology Gap

Interview With Mariologist Mark Miravalle (Part 2)

Source for Part 2

By Irene Lagan

STEUBENVILLE, Ohio, SEPT. 4, 2008 ( After the Second Vatican Council there was a gap in interest in Mariology, one that Mariologist Mark Miravalle has sought to fill with a comprehensive compilation of the Church's teaching on Mary.

Mark Miravalle, professor of theology at Franciscan University of Steubenville, is the editor of "Mariology: A Guide for Priests, Deacons, and Seminarians, and Consecrated Persons" (Queenship Publishing).

He will also be a speaker at the 22nd International Mariological Marian Congress, to begin Thursday in Lourdes.

The congresses, held every four years, are sponsored by the Pontifical International Marian Academy. This year's theme is "The Apparitions of the Most Holy Virgin Mary: Between History, Faith and Theology."

In part two of this interview with ZENIT, Miravalle comments on how the gap in Mariology came about, and how Pope John Paul II was key to filling it.

Part 1 of this interview appeared Wednesday.

Q: What is the purpose of the book?

Miravalle: The intention of this work is to compile a postconciliar, single volume on Mariology that would be helpful for priests, deacons, religious, seminarians, and consecrated persons (as well as for educated laity).

Before the Second Vatican Council, the U.S. Mariologist, Father Juniper Carol, produced a three-volume work on Mariology in which he essentially assigned a chapter to a respected theologian in the systematic study of the theology of Mary. Unfortunately there has not been a similar work done in English since the Council.

Over the years, many priests and religious have mentioned that they felt a certain "gap" in their previous formation with regard to the theology of Marian dogma and devotion, either during their seminary instruction or their religious formation. Our first intention with this work was therefore to serve clergy and religious as well as consecrated persons in filling that gap with a rich and a contemporary Mariology within the obvious limits of a single volume work.

I therefore contacted Mariologists from a diversity of countries, including Italy, Spain, France, Switzerland, and the United States, and as well from different universities and Mariological societies, and asked each to contribute one chapter concerning a dogmatic, doctrinal, liturgical or devotional truth about the Mother of the Lord, which would be in complete conformity with the directions of the Second Vatican Council, as well as conveying the Church's sublime tradition on the Mother of Jesus.

The work reflects what Pope Benedict would call a "hermeneutics of continuity" with the rich Mariology before the Council, coupled with the inspired Mariological insights of the Council and postconciliar magisterium, especially the extraordinary contributions of John Paul II. Hence, the work seeks to present the best of Classical Mariology, but also provide a contemporary theology of Mary as a result of the Second Vatican Council.

Q. How do you account for the lack of Mariological studies since the Council?

Miravalle: It is interesting that theologians like Cardinal Ratzinger have made reference to the years following the Council as a "decade without Mary." This is certainly not due to the Council's authentic Mariological teachings, but to various erroneous interpretations of the council that the council fathers as a whole sought to de-emphasize the role of Mary in the Church. The generous and genial Mariology of the "Totus Tuus" Pontiff, Servant of God John Paul II, was the greatest single corrective in returning Mariological trends back to the best of both classical Mariology and conciliar Mariology.

Q. What gave you the inspiration for this book?

Miravalle: Apart from the aforesaid need to fill in gaps of authentic Mariological study for some members of today's clergy, religious, and consecrated persons, was the papacy and person of John Paul II. Once again, I believe John Paul II single handedly directed a course of both Christo-typical (or Christ-centered) Mariology and ecclesio-typical (or Church-centered) Mariology at a time when it appeared theologians felt compelled to choose either one or the other.

John Paul's Mariology manifested the perfect harmony of appreciating how Our Lady uniquely participates as co-redemptrix in the redemption brought by Jesus Christ, and her subsequent role of maternal mediation and advocacy in service to humanity; and at the same time, how the Immaculate Mother of God is the perfect model for the people of God as co-redeemers and intercessors for each other and for all humanity. Hence, John Paul II's "both and" approach to understanding Mary's unique role with Jesus and being the perfect model in the life of the Church really points to the correct hermeneutic for understanding Mariology today.

Recently in August, Pope Benedict offered profound comments regarding the sufferings of John Paul II in his later life, sufferings which our present Holy Father said released a "redeeming force" of love through the "passion" of his Totus Tuus predecessor. That's precisely being a co-redeemer in Christ after the model of Mary Co-redemptrix.

The co-redemptive sufferings of Mary with Jesus become a perfect model of Christian co-redemption for every member of the Church.

Looking first at Mary's uniqueness in relation to Jesus will never take away from her relevance to the Church. As we see that we, as the People of God, did not give birth to Jesus; are not immaculately conceived; that we will not be immediately assumed into heaven at the end of our earthly life, and that we do not mediate grace for humanity as she does, should make clear to us the primacy of Mary as not simply the eldest daughter of the Church but as "Mother of the Church" and she holds perfections and subsequent roles beyond all others in the body of Christ.

At the same time, we are called to follow her example in the way we are called to suffer our daily crosses as members of the Church and unite them to the sufferings of Jesus and Mary for the redemption of others -- as did our co-redemptrix -- to be instruments of intercessory prayer for each other. As we battle on this earthly pilgrim journey for our own heavenly crowns, we can still revere her as the unique and unparalleled Queen of heaven and earth.

Q. Is there a particular emphasis in the book?

Miravalle: The challenge of the council fathers to theologians given in "Lumen Gentium" paragraph 54 was to continue the work regarding Mariological questions that still called for further study.

Foremost in this category would be how Mary shared in the saving mission of Jesus Christ, or the Mariological genus of what John Paul commonly termed, "maternal mediation." This is why there is a particular emphasis in these essays on Marian co-redemption and mediation.

Actually, several times already this year, Pope Benedict XVI has offered the same emphasis on Mary's role with Jesus in the historic redemption of humanity. For example, in his Feb. 11, 2008, letter on the World Day of the Sick -- so closely associated with Lourdes -- the Holy Father teaches Mary's unique sharing with Jesus in the redemptive passion at Calvary, and as well makes reference to Our Lady's sharing in the sufferings of her earthly children in the midst of their trials and crosses of today.

In his prayer composed for the people of China, the Pope addresses our Lady of Sheshan by recalling Mary's saving "Yes" at the annunciation in connection to her unique suffering of Calvary. The words of the prayer make explicit the connection between Mary's fiat and her cooperation in the work of redemption, ultimately allowing the sword of pain to pierce her own soul at Calvary.

So it appears that Pope Benedict is likewise contributing to "complete" the study and recognition of Our Lady's co-redemption and mediation for humanity.

Q: Does this volume seek to support the Church's efforts for a new evangelization?

Miravalle: As I mentioned previously, the book is intended to be a service to clergy, religious, and consecrated lay persons and all those who wish to gain a deeper understanding of what John Paul II used to call "the whole truth about Mary." But it's also a work for lay evangelists who find that preaching the truth about Mary is the best preparation for a full acceptance of Christ in the fullness of his Church.

The first great evangelization started with a "yes" from the Virgin of Nazareth. The second great evangelization at Guadalupe, which lead to the largest Catholic continent in the world, began by sending the Mother to prepare the way for the Son.

For the present third great evangelization, we should follow the same format as God the Father used for the first two: Prepare the way through the Virgin Mother of God.

The whole truth about Mary is the best means to teach the whole truth about Jesus and the truth about his saving incarnation, redemption and his Church. Teaching about Mary leads to belief in the real Jesus, both God and man. The uncompromised teaching of the full truth about Mary will always safeguard the full truth about Jesus, and hence serve to be the most efficacious and effective guiding star and mediating force for the present new evangelization.

--- --- ---

On the Net:

Miravalle's "Mariology":

© Innovative Media, Inc.

TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: apologetics; catholic; theology; worship
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To: guitarplayer1953
She like all other has sinned and was a sinner

The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary. The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.

41 posted on 09/05/2008 4:31:05 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer
Then the bible is a wrong on all have sinned?

Does the full of grace mean that she did not need salvation?

42 posted on 09/05/2008 4:33:26 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: annalex
I read your little story who made it up?

so the bible is a liar? Isa and Paul are liars? It's says that all not some but all and Isa says that we are not righteous no not one.

43 posted on 09/05/2008 4:40:14 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: guitarplayer1953

The infancy gospel is usually attributed to St. James, but may be of later origin. What makes you think it is made up?

The Bible is inspired inerrant scripture. For that reason it is important to read it carefully and understand it in context. If you do, you will agree that the context of Romans 3 makes it clear it is a generalization and not a prooftext of Mary’s sinfullness. Likewise with Isaiah, — the Bible makes many references to righteous people. Noah, for example, is described as “perfect in every way”.

44 posted on 09/05/2008 5:02:30 PM PDT by annalex (
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To: guitarplayer1953; annalex
Then the bible is a wrong on all have sinned?

"All have sinned " only means that all are subject to original sin. Mary was spared from original sin by God, not herself. The popular analogy is God let us fall in the mud puddle, and cleaned us up afterward through baptism. In Mary's case, God did not let her enter the mud puddle. Consider, too, Rom. 3:23 - "all have sinned" also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin. In Rom. 3:23, finally, "all have sinned," but Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is "pantes."

Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.

Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been "saved" from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain.

I am off line until morning. Look forward to our discussion.

45 posted on 09/05/2008 5:10:00 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer
Your analogy is wrong Isa and Romans says the all have sinned all are guilty none are righteous. You have to make her sinless in order to maker the queen of Heaven the co Redeemer the Mother of God

To which you are wrong on all three accounts.

46 posted on 09/05/2008 5:22:53 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: annalex
The topic of co-redemptive role of Blessed Virgin Mary tends to be an occasion of sin for many opposed to the doctrine. For that reason, this is a caucus thread ...

Wise and gracious of you to make this clear up front. Otherwise, people might start making comparisons to the Angel Moroni ...

47 posted on 09/05/2008 5:25:51 PM PDT by RJR_fan (Winners and lovers shape the future. Whiners and losers TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: guitarplayer1953; NYer
Isa and Romans says the all have sinned all are guilty none are righteous

Please respond to the suggestion, also from Romans 3, that no one seeks God and all are blaspheming murderers. Selective prooftexting is disrespect for the Holy Scripture; avoid it.

48 posted on 09/05/2008 7:11:24 PM PDT by annalex (
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To: annalex

all right we are all sinners without the Holy Spirit to bring convictions and repentance we would all go to hell. Is that plain enough?

49 posted on 09/05/2008 7:35:30 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: guitarplayer1953

Does Romans 3 mean that Mary is also a blaspheming murderer not seeking God? You are getting tiresome.

50 posted on 09/05/2008 7:39:08 PM PDT by annalex (
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To: annalex


51 posted on 09/05/2008 8:03:35 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: annalex

Good luck with that.

52 posted on 09/05/2008 8:27:20 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: guitarplayer1953

How about Noah?

53 posted on 09/05/2008 10:11:59 PM PDT by annalex (
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To: RJR_fan

It’s too bad that affirming the Scriptural truth that Christ is our only redeemer and only mediator and only intercessor is seen as “an occasion of sin.” Somehow this is viewed as detracting from Mary when it is simply giving Christ His due.

54 posted on 09/05/2008 11:29:21 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
It’s too bad that affirming the Scriptural truth that Christ is our only redeemer and only mediator and only intercessor is seen as “an occasion of sin.” Somehow this is viewed as detracting from Mary when it is simply giving Christ His due.

Well, this is a caucus, and those of us who hold the perspective you enunciate are guests, here. We are constrained by good manners to refrain from denouncing a parallel apparatus of salvation and revelation. We I go to visit my Muslim friends, I realize that mocking (Mo + "Gabriel") would be a great way to end the conversation, plus any hope of winning them to the true Revelation and Salvation we enjoy in Jesus Christ. Same with my Mormon friends -- deriding (Joe + "Moroni") would touch something deeply personal to them, triggering a visceral response that shuts off an ear for my testimony to the sufficiency of Christ.

Our challenge, as communicators of the Gospel, is to avoid the cheap shots and facile denunciations of the Gospa. Satan, after all, is "a liar and the father of lies," whose power rests upon our willingness to be deceived. The integrity of a kindly witness to the One who called Himself "the way, the truth, and the life" has its own power to draw all men unto the One who was lifted up, and away from cherished illusions.

Let's try to avoid trip-wires that end conversations.

55 posted on 09/06/2008 1:19:53 AM PDT by RJR_fan (Winners and lovers shape the future. Whiners and losers TRY TO PREDICT IT.)
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To: annalex; guitarplayer1953
Does Romans 3 mean that Mary is also a blaspheming murderer not seeking God?

Dear guitarplayer1953 ... by your own interpretation, you would have to include Jesus in that statement. This is the problem that arises when one practices Sola Scriptura, which is not in Scripture. Is private interpretation of the Bible condoned in the Bible Itself?  No, it is not (2 Peter 1:20).  Was individual interpretation of Scripture practiced by the early Christians or the Jews?  Again, "NO" (Acts 8:29-35). Can there be more than one interpretation of the Bible?  No.  The word "truth" is used several times in the New Testament.  However, the plural version of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture.  Therefore, there can only be one Truth. 

Is the Bible the sole "teaching from God?"  No.  The Bible Itself states that there are "oral" teachings and traditions that are to be carried on to the present-day (2 Thessalonians 2:15; 1 Corinthians 11:2; 2 Timothy 2:2; Romans 10:17; 1 Peter 1:24-25).  These teachings are what the Catholic Church considers "Sacred Apostolic Tradition."  This type of "Tradition" never changes because it was passed down by the Apostles themselves.

56 posted on 09/06/2008 5:19:21 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: Kolokotronis

You understand that co-redemptrix is Latin when translated means the woman with the Redeemer, don’t you?

57 posted on 09/06/2008 6:44:07 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: guitarplayer1953
You understand what a caucus thread designation means?

You understand what the word incarnate means?

You understand the difference between a Divine nature and a human nature?

You understand the following passage from Scripture?

"And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Luke 1:43

58 posted on 09/06/2008 6:48:21 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: guitarplayer1953
If you will notice it says that the Holy Spirit conceived when speaking of Jesus but when speaking of John the word say that Elisabeth conceived.


"Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call His name Jesus." Luke 1:31

59 posted on 09/06/2008 6:51:15 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: annalex

Bumping this older thread for the revelation of turth!

60 posted on 05/23/2011 3:29:58 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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