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What's wrong with Catholic voters? What's wrong with Catholics?
CatholicCulture.org ^ | November 5, 2008 | Phil Lawler

Posted on 11/10/2008 12:21:00 PM PST by rrstar96

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1 posted on 11/10/2008 12:21:01 PM PST by rrstar96
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To: lsucat; Teófilo; NYer; Salvation; Nihil Obstat; mileschristi; bornacatholic; Mrs. Don-o; narses; ..

Faith of Our Fathers ping


2 posted on 11/10/2008 12:21:53 PM PST by rrstar96 (Strength and Honor!)
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To: rrstar96
Sheeple...just like many of my fellow Black Evangelicals. :-(
3 posted on 11/10/2008 12:23:27 PM PST by T Lady (Palin-Jindal 2012)
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To: rrstar96

A slippery slope following birth control to Planned Parenthood?


4 posted on 11/10/2008 12:23:53 PM PST by sarasota
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To: rrstar96

Already posted: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2126950/posts


5 posted on 11/10/2008 12:24:04 PM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: rrstar96

This makes me sick as I was christened in the Catholic Church. 54% of Catholics and 78% of Jews let America and themselves down. It is disgraceful.


6 posted on 11/10/2008 12:24:23 PM PST by Frantzie
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To: rrstar96

Already posted when it was published, 5 days ago.


7 posted on 11/10/2008 12:24:41 PM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who like to be called Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: rrstar96
Half the people I work with are Catholic, as am I.

I'm the only one who is pro-life.

I'm the only one who doesn't want 'free' health care at the expense of my free-dom.

I think most "Catholics" nowadays consider their church to be a social club.

The very word "morality" makes them snort with contempt.

8 posted on 11/10/2008 12:25:33 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Public policy should never become the captive of a scientific-technological elite. -- Ike Eisenhower)
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To: Alex Murphy; wideawake

Sorry for the duplication.


9 posted on 11/10/2008 12:26:41 PM PST by rrstar96 (Strength and Honor!)
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To: rrstar96

That’s easy. Catholics don’t live their faith. Evangelicals do. You will know them by their fruits.


10 posted on 11/10/2008 12:31:27 PM PST by Jibaholic ("Those people who are not ruled by God will be ruled by tyrants." --William Penn)
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To: rrstar96

It clearly sounds like the Vatican must do more to educate American Catholics about their faith. The monastic orders are the obvious choice to send through America on a mission of education, helping the laity steer away from heterodoxy.

Just for them to be available, to speak with and visit the young, adult and old, would be a grand experience for all concerned.


11 posted on 11/10/2008 12:33:21 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Jibaholic

Oh, what about the significant percentage of Evangelicals who DID vote for Obama? Were they “living their faith”?


12 posted on 11/10/2008 12:33:29 PM PST by Pyro7480 (This Papist asks everyone to continue to pray the Rosary for our country!)
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To: rrstar96

The dumbing down of many voters in general greatly benefited the political left at each and every level. Conservatives don’t even have anything that even comes close to equalling all of the advantages that the political left presently has, and this is why I’m not seriously convinced that this rapid shift to the profound left is only temporary and will end in either ‘10, ‘12, ‘14, ‘16... I give the conservative movement sixty years before it does make any kind of serious political comeback, if it even makes any kind of political comeback to begin with. I really do want to be wrong about all of this, but I don’t believe that I’m wrong. Look at how many countries throughout the entire world still maintain a socialistic form of government, even if they really don’t like it.


13 posted on 11/10/2008 12:34:37 PM PST by johnthebaptistmoore (There's nothing good to say about leftists in complete control of everything important.)
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To: rrstar96
Yes! In the old days, Catholics had many things that kept them apart and reminded them of their priorities: the Faith and your moral/spiritual life first, and then the world and civil society. This actually makes people good citizens. But after 40 years of bad or non-existent teaching, people have gotten it backwards, and the world and its ways take priority. Oddly enough, this makes neither for good Christians - nor for good citizens.
14 posted on 11/10/2008 12:35:59 PM PST by livius
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To: Pyro7480
George Barna's recent polling found these results:

Protestant voters were evenly split between being registered as Democrats and Republicans. However, they sided with Sen. McCain by a 53% to 46% split. That 7-point gap was just half the margin accorded to George W. Bush in 2004 (57% to 42%), but within range of the 4-point preference given to Mr. Bush in 2000 (51% to 47%).

Nearly half of all registered Catholics were aligned with the Democratic Party (48%), compared to only about one-quarter associated with the Republicans (28%) and one-fifth who remained independent (20%). Their voting behavior was significantly different than that of Protestants: they backed Sen. Obama by a 56% to 43% outcome. That was far different than the even split in 2004 (49% for Pres. Bush vs. 49% for Sen. Kerry) and substantially more support for the Democratic candidate than they had given to Al Gore in 2000 (49%, versus 43% to Mr. Bush).

15 posted on 11/10/2008 12:38:26 PM PST by rhema ("Break the conventions; keep the commandments." -- G. K. Chesterton)
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To: Jibaholic
That’s easy. Catholics don’t live their faith. Evangelicals do. You will know them by their fruits.

What a ridiculous statement.

Textbook example of a Type I Error.

When a Catholic falls away from the Church and doesn't live his faith any more, he generally still refers to himself as a Catholic anyway.

When an Evangelical falls away from the Christian life, he generally doesn't refer to himself as an Evangelical anymore.

That's the only difference.

The number of people who claim to have been born again at some point in their lives and the number of people who actually live a Evangelical life is as great a discrepancy as the number of people who are nominally Catholic and those who actually live a Catholic life.

16 posted on 11/10/2008 12:45:12 PM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who like to be called Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Had two catholic church going friends bite my head off when I said I could never vote democrat while they were for abortion on demand, even for young girls without parental notification.

Color me stunned.


17 posted on 11/10/2008 12:46:50 PM PST by Carley (Vote McCain/Palin.....Change babies can live with.)
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To: Jibaholic
That’s easy. Catholics don’t live their faith. Evangelicals do.

You'll find the problem with the brush you've selected to be that there aren't any paint buckets big enough to dip it in.

Boy, are Evagelicals dopes! Oops! I just did it, too!
18 posted on 11/10/2008 12:48:57 PM PST by ConservativeWarrior (In last year's nests, there are no birds this year.)
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To: All

There is nothing wrong with Catholics. Those that vote democrat aren’t catholic. You can’t be pro-abortion and be Catholic.


19 posted on 11/10/2008 12:51:34 PM PST by newnhdad (The longest of journeys begins with one step. see ya on the gas lines..)
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To: rrstar96
What's wrong with Catholic voters? What's wrong with Catholics?

They and the church are strong believers in socialism. How many times has the phrase "social justice" been used in catholic newspapers (Social justice meaning taking from those who earned it and giving it so someoen who didn't so that the robber can feel good) Catholic Charaties USA gets over $1,000,000,000 of taxpayer loot annually in grants. Don't think that the church is going to say "no don't trob the taxpayers - we don't want the money."

The Catholic bureaucracy has been bought by the statists in government and paid for with our tax dollars. Look for some more endorsement of the obomanation's gun control agenda like the American council of Catholic Bishops did in 1994 for Clinton's gun bans.

20 posted on 11/10/2008 12:51:51 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: from occupied ga
They and the church are strong believers in socialism.

There's a HUGE difference between what the Church actually teaches (socialism in all its forms is pretty well condemned) and what much of the Church leadership in America preaches. Communists have made a Long March through the Church much as they made a Long March through the secular educational system.

Still, Rerum Novarum and all its sequel documents remain the true teaching of the Church. I suggest becoming acquainted with them ... as a good first step toward making their teachings better known.

21 posted on 11/10/2008 12:56:19 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: wideawake
There is some truth to your point (although Catholics do not make it when counting the number of believers in different denominations worldwide. But if you look at the US map of most popular denominations by county you will find that blue states are generally Catholic. Church attendence is also lower in predominately Catholic states. That suggests that Catholics as a group are less devout.

Secondly, evangelicals are converting Catholics both in the US and abroad.

22 posted on 11/10/2008 12:57:46 PM PST by Jibaholic ("Those people who are not ruled by God will be ruled by tyrants." --William Penn)
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To: Jibaholic

Mighty broad brush you’re painting with there.

You might try a qualifier. I am sure I can find some evangelicals who don’t also. I’ve known more than one or two in that category. And I’ve known Catholics who’s faith colors everything they do from waking to sleeping.

Won’t deny, though, there are too many people who are cultural catholics and choose which part of the walk they want to do. Else they would have put life issues at the top of determiners of who they voted for.

They are a scandal upon the rest of us.


23 posted on 11/10/2008 12:59:56 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Election 2010 begins today!)
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To: wideawake

When measuring the Catholic vote, I think it is important to distinguish between practicing Catholics who regularly attend Mass versus the non-observant. Without having access to any figures before me, I would be willing to bet that John McCain won the observant Catholic vote. Does anyone seriously consider people like Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, and Ted Kennedy to be genuine Catholics?


24 posted on 11/10/2008 12:59:57 PM PST by Welcome2thejungle
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To: rrstar96
I am actually saddened that McCain won among weekly mass attendees by only 10 points. For the past 40+ years the Church has been severely weakened as a force in the world to a nearly all time low level in a number of areas. Catholic Europe (Spain, France, Italy ect) has lost the faith for decades. Moreover, Mexico City recently legalized abortion.

However, it will get stronger albeit probably with a smaller contingent. The fact that so many Bishops are now speaking out against these pro-abortion polititians after so many years of indifference is a good sign of hope.

25 posted on 11/10/2008 1:02:50 PM PST by Fast Ed97
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To: Carley

Conscience bothering them most likely the reason. You are better off not dealing with these friends any-more. The great falling away that Paul spoke of has begun, many will no longer endure listening to the truth.


26 posted on 11/10/2008 1:08:21 PM PST by mdmathis6 (I'm Mike the RN!( I often do plumbing of a different sort))
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To: Welcome2thejungle; rrstar96; wideawake; Fast Ed97
When measuring the Catholic vote, I think it is important to distinguish between practicing Catholics who regularly attend Mass versus the non-observant. Without having access to any figures before me, I would be willing to bet that John McCain won the observant Catholic vote.

You'd win your bet. You can find a detailed breakdown of the polling numbers on my profile page; here are the relevant ones for Catholics of all stripes:

55% McCain, 43% Obama - Weekly mass-attending Catholics 6,9
52% McCain, 47% Obama - White "regular-mass-attending" Catholics12
51% McCain, 49% Obama - White Catholics1,7,11
45% McCain, 54% Obama - Catholics1,4,6,8,9,10,11,12
37% McCain, 61% Obama - Non-weekly-mass-attending Catholics6,12
xx% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanic Catholics8,11**,***, ****

** No source provided voting percentages for the other party.
*** Associated Press (citation #11) reports this number as 72%, instead of the 67% other media gave it.
**** Note that some media are reporting the same numbers for the Hispanic and Black vote in general, as well as for those same groups with Catholic or Protestant affiliation.


Citations:
1 The Awesome Blue God -- How Obama Forged A New Faith Coalition
2 Exit polls: 78% of Jews voted for Obama
3 Utah's red loses some of its luster
4 Obama's Religious Appeal: Still Missing Evangelicals - which TIME renamed as Obama: Bringing (Some) Evangelicals In
5 The Evangelical Electoral Map
6 What's wrong with Catholic voters? What's wrong with Catholics?
7 Evangelical Voters Favor McCain by Wide Margins
8 Catholic voters heavily favored Obama, analysis shows
9 What Happened to the Catholic Vote?
10 Loyal to the End: Evangelicals Stay the Course
11 Obama results show gains in key religious voters
12 How the faithful voted
13 Exit polls: How Obama won

All numbers cited above are the earliest ones reported in the press. In cases of multiple reports, some percentages cited were not exact. However, the numbers above are within 2% of all sources cited, lending credence to the general number & placement overall.

27 posted on 11/10/2008 1:11:23 PM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: Welcome2thejungle
“I'd be willing to bet that John McCain won the observant catholic vote.”

I'm not so sure. We know many observant Catholics who attend mass regularly, send their children to Catholic school with princess riverdawg, etc. but have Obama bumper stickers on their vehicles.

28 posted on 11/10/2008 1:16:02 PM PST by riverdawg
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To: from occupied ga

You don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about, and claims like “Catholic Charaties USA gets over $1,000,000,000 of taxpayer loot annually in grants” are outright falsehoods.


29 posted on 11/10/2008 1:18:41 PM PST by oldbill
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To: Alex Murphy
I defer to your data, and my post #28 is merely anecdotal, but there are certainly many left-leaning, observant Catholics here for whom “spreading the wealth around” trumps feticide.
30 posted on 11/10/2008 1:19:45 PM PST by riverdawg
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To: Alex Murphy; Jibaholic
That 55-43 advantage among practicing Catholics might rise to 60-40 when calculated for white practicing Catholics.

The amount of lies told in the Spanish-language and Kreyol-language media about Obama's abortion stance were criminal.

And almost no Catholic bishops in the US speak either language fluently enough to make an impact in those quarters.

31 posted on 11/10/2008 1:20:21 PM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who like to be called Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: rrstar96
This goes for everyone:

Theology matters.


32 posted on 11/10/2008 1:23:05 PM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: rrstar96

Catholics who do not attend church are not Catholics - they are former Catholics, or more accurately, secularists.

Real Catholics supported McCain, 54-45%, although he didn’t give them (or anyone else for that matter) much reason to.

That number would have been even higher if the bishops were willing to condemn pro-abortion, pro-stem cell liberals. Instead they go to dinners with them.


33 posted on 11/10/2008 1:23:41 PM PST by oldbill
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To: rrstar96

There are two distinct Catholic Churches in this country whether we like it or not. One is true, the other heretical.


34 posted on 11/10/2008 1:24:17 PM PST by Dionysius (Jingoism is no vice.)
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To: rrstar96

St. Jude hospital... named after their saint of “lost causes.” Like the rest of us, they have their good and bad moments.


35 posted on 11/10/2008 1:25:50 PM PST by exhaustedmomma (Way to go BARNEY!! Barney for White House Press Secretary.)
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To: rrstar96

Those 54% of the Catholics that voted for evil should be baned from the Catholic faith. By casting a vote for B Husein Obama they agree and condone: Abortion, Euthanasia, Embryonic Stem Cell research, Human Cloning, and Homosexual Marriage. All of which are strictly forbidden by the Catholic Church and the Word of our Lord.


36 posted on 11/10/2008 1:26:56 PM PST by gakrak ("A wise man's heart is his right hand, But a fool's heart is at his left" Eccl 10:2)
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To: rrstar96
Just my opinion, but I don't think you will find the answers looking at the voters...better focus on why the Democrats are more attractive than the Republicans to all (ok at least 1/2) of the people of the US.

Religion, unfortunately, is taking a back seat to most Americans, they have been told (over and over and over) that there need to be a separation, and are buying into it.

As for the abortion issue, I don't think there is a Catholic alive that doesn't think its a sin...the problem is that most Catholics don't think it should be regulated, i.e. its a moral issue. The Republicans better find a way to make this a societal issue, or drop it from the platform. (I prefer the former.)

37 posted on 11/10/2008 1:29:44 PM PST by mikemoose
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To: rrstar96
You mean to tell me that if Catholics are badly catechized, liturgically confused, constantly brow-beaten about the "social gospel" and seldom hear a homily about Humanae Vitae or indeed any basic Catholic dogma, they turn around and vote for a pro-abortionist?

Wow....who'd a thunk it..........???

38 posted on 11/10/2008 1:33:49 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: rrstar96

In the 35 years since Roe v. Wade, Catholics have watched their Church leaders handle pro-abortion Catholic politicians with kid gloves, treating their moral treason as a minor annoyance rather than a public scandal. Yes, the bishops routinely denounced abortion; but at the same time they treated the public supporters of taxpayer-funded abortion with jovial deference. Puzzled lay Catholics concluded that the bishops didn’t really take the issue too seriously, and the laity in turn stopped taking their bishops seriously.
***Sounds a little bit like some chickens coming home to roost, unfortunately. The leadership of the church should not be sending messages that generate the result of “puzzled lay catholics”. This is very sad. But I doubt anything will really change.


39 posted on 11/10/2008 1:34:13 PM PST by Kevmo (Palin/Hunter 2012)
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To: theKid51

ping


40 posted on 11/10/2008 1:39:04 PM PST by bmwcyle (Primary support for McCain and Huck showed complete stupidity)
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To: marshmallow
You mean to tell me that if Catholics are badly catechized, liturgically confused, constantly brow-beaten about the "social gospel" and seldom hear a homily about Humanae Vitae or indeed any basic Catholic dogma, they turn around and vote for a pro-abortionist?

It will be interesting when the county-by-county voting maps come out. AFAIK, with a little work, it should be possible to match up voting habits with dioceses/bishops, and draw some conclusions re who's catechizing their parishioners poorly.

41 posted on 11/10/2008 1:50:35 PM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: rrstar96

Also, I’d not forget that even if Catholics can make a good showing to pack a Sunday Mass... which many Churches can and do...

There is also the fact that there are so many Roman Catholics to begin with. Catholic means Universal too. I honestly hope they can get it together.

Someone put up the sponsorship of FOCA, what is there in Maryland, a Mikulski? Very bad if this is a (practicing?) Catholic with a Polish heritage. Quite a few other names are suspect to.


42 posted on 11/10/2008 2:21:32 PM PST by RGPII (don't blame me....)
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To: Fast Ed97
The fact that so many Bishops are now speaking out against these pro-abortion polititians after so many years of indifference is a good sign of hope.

"Going rogue", Catholic-style.

43 posted on 11/10/2008 2:25:56 PM PST by rrstar96 (Strength and Honor!)
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To: sarasota

Bingo.


44 posted on 11/10/2008 4:54:12 PM PST by Tax-chick (Teenage mutant tortilla chips - only at Wal-mart!)
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To: rrstar96

I know a lot of Catholic Democrats, and a lot of Catholic Republicans. Hardly any of them use abortion as a litmus test for choosing political candidates. It’s just a minor issue to most people, not the end all be all that it seems to be to some people. Most people, Catholic or not, are a lot more concerned about the economy, taxes, the war in Iraq, etc. If you look at exit polls you’ll see that abortion is way down there on the list of priorities for most voters. Personally, I’m sick of hearing about it.


45 posted on 11/10/2008 5:04:59 PM PST by SmallGovRepub
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To: rrstar96

Nothing is wrong with Catholics. Nothing is wrong with Catholic voters.

Those Catholics in Name Only who voted for Obama have excommunicated themselves and are no longer Catholics in Good standing.

How about the Baptists, Methodist, Presbyterians, Lutherans, evangelicals who voted for Obama?? Why does everyone blame Catholics?


46 posted on 11/10/2008 5:38:28 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Jibaholic

Evangelicals also voted for Obama.

We cannot judge everyone with such broad blanket monikers.


47 posted on 11/10/2008 5:39:49 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: rrstar96; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

48 posted on 11/10/2008 5:42:20 PM PST by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
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To: from occupied ga

Your comments betray a level of ignorance that amazes me. You know nothing of Catholic history, Pius IX condemned socialism for its godless stance. Left leaning catholics (note the small “c”) advocate social justice but they NOT the majority anymore than left leaning protestants.


49 posted on 11/10/2008 6:00:36 PM PST by Nichevo ("It isn't positions which lend men distinction but men who enhance positions." -Agesilaus)
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To: Alex Murphy

I think you’re going to be proven right. Just as conservative Bishops have more vocations! By their fruits, (or lack thereof) ye shall know them.


50 posted on 11/10/2008 6:04:39 PM PST by Nichevo ("It isn't positions which lend men distinction but men who enhance positions." -Agesilaus)
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