Posted on 02/16/2009 1:09:50 PM PST by TaraP
I know we have done quite a bit of specualtion here on who the Antichrist might be, however are we as *Believers* suppose to know who he is?
Isn't this what the Rapture of the Church all about.
We we know that the rapture must precede the tribulation, we know that the rapture is very near. You see, the antichrist cannot be revealed until the force holding him back is removed from the earth. After the church is removed from the earth, the antichrist will be able to begin his reign of terror.
2 Thess 2:7-8, For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy with the splendor of his coming.
After the letters to the seven churches, John is given the call to "come up hither." This would signify the rapture--the church being removed from the earth. Is this why the church is not mentioned again in the Book of Revelation?
Lastly- Is the next seal to be opened the 6th Seal? The Rapture of the Church and the Great Quake that will block out the Sun and turn the moon blood red.
Thoughts?
Heading to bed. will try and get back to it tomorrow.
Blessings,
You said — “I don’t know of another verse insisting that the mountains here represent kingdoms. They might. I don’t see it as a certainty.”
Well, I’ll give a quick run-down of several verses that are given in that vein of thought...
Daniel 2:34-35; 44-45
34 You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.
35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
...
44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”
Jeremiah 51:25-26
[talking about Babylon...]
25 “Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain.
26 They shall not take from you a stone for a corner Nor a stone for a foundation, But you shall be desolate forever,” says the Lord.
Psalm 30:7
Lord, by Your favor You have made my mountain stand strong;
[talking about David’s kingdom...]
Exodus 15:15-18
15 Then the chiefs of Edom will be dismayed; The mighty men of Moab, Trembling will take hold of them; All the inhabitants of Canaan will melt away.
16 Fear and dread will fall on them; By the greatness of Your arm They will be as still as a stone, Till Your people pass over, O Lord, Till the people pass over Whom You have purchased.
17 You will bring them in and plant them In the mountain of Your inheritance, In the place, O Lord, which You have made For Your own dwelling, The sanctuary, O Lord, which Your hands have established.
18 “The Lord shall reign forever and ever.”
Ezekiel 28:13-15
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
Isaiah 11:1-9
1 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins, And faithfulness the belt of His waist.
6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea.
Isaiah 13:1-5
1 The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.
2 “Lift up a banner on the high mountain, Raise your voice to them; Wave your hand, that they may enter the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded My sanctified ones; I have also called My mighty ones for My anger— Those who rejoice in My exaltation.”
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, Like that of many people! A tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together! The Lord of hosts musters The army for battle.
5 They come from a far country, From the end of heaven— The Lord and His weapons of indignation, To destroy the whole land.
Isaiah 25:1-12
1 O Lord, You are my God. I will exalt You, I will praise Your name, For You have done wonderful things; Your counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
2 For You have made a city a ruin, A fortified city a ruin, A palace of foreigners to be a city no more; It will never be rebuilt.
3 Therefore the strong people will glorify You; The city of the terrible nations will fear You.
4 For You have been a strength to the poor, A strength to the needy in his distress, A refuge from the storm, A shade from the heat; For the blast of the terrible ones is as a storm against the wall.
5 You will reduce the noise of aliens, As heat in a dry place; As heat in the shadow of a cloud, The song of the terrible ones will be diminished.
6 And in this mountain The Lord of hosts will make for all people A feast of choice pieces, A feast of wines on the lees, Of fat things full of marrow, Of well-refined wines on the lees.
7 And He will destroy on this mountain The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the Lord has spoken.
9 And it will be said in that day: “Behold, this is our God; We have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is the Lord; We have waited for Him; We will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.”
10 For on this mountain the hand of the Lord will rest, And Moab shall be trampled down under Him, As straw is trampled down for the refuse heap.
11 And He will spread out His hands in their midst As a swimmer reaches out to swim, And He will bring down their pride Together with the trickery of their hands.
12 The fortress of the high fort of your walls He will bring down, lay low, And bring to the ground, down to the dust.
Isaiah 2:1-5
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the Lord’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it.
3 Many people shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war anymore.
5 O house of Jacob, come and let us walk In the light of the Lord.
Isaiah 30:27-33
27 Behold, the name of the Lord comes from afar, Burning with His anger, And His burden is heavy; His lips are full of indignation, And His tongue like a devouring fire.
28 His breath is like an overflowing stream, Which reaches up to the neck, To sift the nations with the sieve of futility; And there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people, Causing them to err.
29 You shall have a song As in the night when a holy festival is kept, And gladness of heart as when one goes with a flute, To come into the mountain of the Lord, To the Mighty One of Israel.
30 The Lord will cause His glorious voice to be heard, And show the descent of His arm, With the indignation of His anger And the flame of a devouring fire, With scattering, tempest, and hailstones.
31 For through the voice of the Lord Assyria will be beaten down, As He strikes with the rod.
32 And in every place where the staff of punishment passes, Which the Lord lays on him, It will be with tambourines and harps; And in battles of brandishing He will fight with it.
33 For Tophet was established of old, Yes, for the king it is prepared. He has made it deep and large; Its pyre is fire with much wood; The breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, Kindles it.
Isaiah 57:13
When you cry out, Let your collection of idols deliver you. But the wind will carry them all away, A breath will take them. But he who puts his trust in Me shall possess the land, And shall inherit My holy mountain.”
Isaiah 65:17-25
17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying.
20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, And their offspring with them.
24 “It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,” Says the Lord.
Jeremiah 17:1-4
1 “The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond it is engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars,
2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills.
3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, And your high places of sin within all your borders.
4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger which shall burn forever.”
Jeremiah 31:21-25
21 “Set up signposts, Make landmarks; Set your heart toward the highway, The way in which you went. Turn back, O virgin of Israel, Turn back to these your cities.
22 How long will you gad about, O you backsliding daughter? For the Lord has created a new thing in the earth— A woman shall encompass a man.”
23 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: “They shall again use this speech in the land of Judah and in its cities, when I bring back their captivity: ‘The Lord bless you, O home of justice, and mountain of holiness!’
24 And there shall dwell in Judah itself, and in all its cities together, farmers and those going out with flocks.
25 For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul.”
Micah 4:1-7
1 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the Lord’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And peoples shall flow to it.
2 Many nations shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion the law shall go forth, And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
3 He shall judge between many peoples, And rebuke strong nations afar off; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war anymore.
4 But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree, And no one shall make them afraid; For the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken.
5 For all people walk each in the name of his god, But we will walk in the name of the Lord our God Forever and ever.
6 “In that day,” says the Lord, “I will assemble the lame, I will gather the outcast And those whom I have afflicted;
7 I will make the lame a remnant, And the outcast a strong nation; So the Lord will reign over them in Mount Zion From now on, even forever.
Zephaniah 3:8-13
8 “Therefore wait for Me,” says the Lord, “Until the day I rise up for plunder; My determination is to gather the nations To My assembly of kingdoms, To pour on them My indignation, All my fierce anger; All the earth shall be devoured With the fire of My jealousy.
9 “For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, That they all may call on the name of the Lord, To serve Him with one accord.
10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, The daughter of My dispersed ones, Shall bring My offering.
11 In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds In which you transgress against Me; For then I will take away from your midst Those who rejoice in your pride, And you shall no longer be haughty In My holy mountain.
12 I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the Lord.
13 The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid.”
Okay, that’s a sampling of some I grabbed as quickly as I could...
You’ve been around here years, and that’s more than long enough to know that this is the religion forum on Free Republic.
Her religious topic is entirely appropriate for the religion forum.
Amen, Blogger. Salvation is, has always been, and always will be, by grace through faith. Iscool should read Hab. 2:4; Matt. 7:22,23; Luke 7:50; John 3:14-17,36; 5:24; 6:40,47; 11:25-27; 12:46; 20:31; Acts 8:37; 10:43; 13:39; 15:11; 16:31; Rom. 1:17; 3:20,24,28-30; chapter 4; 5:1,15,18; 9;30-33; 10:9; 11:5,6; I Cor. 1:21; 6:11; Gal. 2:16,21; chapter 3; 5:4; Ephesians 2:5,8-9; Phil. 3:9; II Tim. 1:9; 3:15; Titus 2:11; 3:5; Heb. 10:38; chapter 11; I Peter 1:5; I John 5:1.
First of all, Jesus said that no man knows the day and hour when He will come to get His Church off the scene before the judgment hits; only God knows that. We are not given the exact date, however there is Scripture that lets us know whether those who come to know Christ as Savior during the Church Age will be made to go through the judgments God has for those who reject Him:
If I can clearly show the similarities with the Second Coming which does have the timing indicated and these ‘rapture’ passages (and I can) why are they not the same? What makes them different?
Many people confuse Christ's Second Coming to earth to set up His kingdom with the Rapture. Here are some questions and where to find the answers in Scripture that can help you:
At the Rapture, Jesus comes FOR His Church. (John 14:1-3, 1 Thess 4:14-17
At the Glorious Appearing, Jesus comes WITH His Church. (Zech 14:5, Col 3:4, Jude 14, Rev 19:14)
At the Rapture, Christians are caught up to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thess 4:13-18)
At the Glorious Appearing, Jesus' feet touch the earth (Zech 14:4, Rev:19:11-21) At the Rapture, Christians are taken first and unbelievers are left behind. (1 Thess 4:13-18)
At the Glorious Appearing, the wicked are taken first, but the righteous (the tribulation saints) are left behind. (Matt 13:28-30)
At the Rapture, Jesus will gather His Bride, the Church, unto Himself in preparation of the Marriage of the Lamb. (Rev. 19:6-9)
At the Glorious Appearing, Jesus will execute judgment on the earth and establish His Kingdom. (Zech 14:3-4, Jude 14-15, Rev 19:11-21)
The Marriage of the Lamb takes place in Heaven AFTER the Rapture of the Church. (Revelation 19:6-9)
War on earth comes AFTER the Marriage of the Lamb at the Glorious Appearing when the King of Kings and Lord of Lords lays the smackdown on evil! (Revelation 19:11-21)
The Rapture will happen in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (Blink. It's over!). (1 Cor 15:52)
The Glorious Appearing will be a slow coming. Everyone will see Jesus coming with great power and great glory! (Zech 12:10, Matt 24:30, Rev 1:7)
At the Rapture, only those who are looking for Him (Christians) will see Him. (1 John 3:2, 1 Cor 15:52)
At the Glorious Appearing, every eye will see Him and those who have rejected Him will wail.(Rev. 1:7)
At the Rapture, Jesus will descend from Heaven with a shout (calling for the saints at the resurrection). (1 Thess 4:16)
At the Glorious Appearing, no shout is mentioned, although the Lord does slay the wicked with the sword of His mouth. (Rev. 19:11-21)
At the Rapture, a resurrection will take place. (1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:51-54)
At the Glorious Appearing, there is no resurrection spoken of. (Zech. 12:10, Zech.14:4-5, Rev 1:7, 19:11-21)
The Rapture can happen at any time...maybe even now which is why we are to be WATCHING for the return of Jesus Christ! (Rev 3:3, 1 Thess 5:4-6)
The Glorious Appearing will occur at the end of the seven-year tribulation period. (Dan 9:24-27, Matt 24:29-30, 2 Thess 2:3-8) At the Rapture, no angels are sent to gather the Church.
At the Glorious Appearing, angels will be sent to gather people together for judgment. (Matt 13:39, 41 & 49, Matt. 24:31, Matt. 25:31, 2 Thess 1:7-10)
At the Rapture, those who died in Christ will return with Jesus to recover their resurrected bodies. (1 Thess 4:14-16)
At the Glorious Appearing, Christians will return with Jesus already in their resurrected bodies riding on white horses. (Rev 19:11-21)
At the Rapture, Jesus doesn't return riding a white horse.
At the Glorious Appearing, Jesus will return riding a white horse. (Rev 19:11)
What is the message each event will bring for mankind?
The Rapture will bring with it a message of hope and comfort. (1 Thess 4:18, Titus 2:13, 1 John 3:3)
The Glorious Appearing will bring with it a message of judgment. (Joel 3:12-16, Mal 4:5, Rev 19:11-21)
So you see, based on Scripture we can know that the Rapture and the Second Coming are two separate events, and we can know when the Rapture is close, but not the exact date. However, the exact day of the Second Coming can be known.
Yes the Bible does talk about scoffers, but who is the scoffer here?
God said that the scoffers of the last days would deny that Christ is going to return. You will not find anywhere any statement or insinuation that I have made that Christ will not return; in fact its quite the opposite. So it's not me who is "the scoffer here".
It has been my discovery it was never about what fits for me, but what fits for the Heavenly Father.
Christ said I have foretold you all things. And let no *man* deceived you, was the first warning Christ gave as the sign of His return. Now I cannot find from Genesis to Revelation any Scripture that says the body of Christ is going anywhere before the return of Christ with that double edge sword, for the harvest. But man has made a religion of teaching that claim.
True enough.
I don’t think you can find a Scripture that asserts such clearly cannot be the case, either.
Looks like an excellent post. Will try and get to it later.
I agree with you...But in Mat. 24,someone has to endure to the end, or they can't get saved...
Here is one to meditate upon by Paul. ICorinthians 10 the whole chapter... Specifically as to where the road map is given what will be.. ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: (examples) and they are written for our admonition, (warning) upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
Now is there any example written of them in all of the Old Testament wherein the Heavenly Father removed His people before a tribulation or a war. No. Daniel was not harmed with the 'powers' that be tossed him into the lion's den, and those three Hebrew children had not a hair on their head singed and there even appeared to be a 'fourth' entity in that fiery furnace.
Ephesians 6: tells exactly who the instead of Jesus is and what is required to stand against the wiles of the instead of Jesus. The tribulation is described here and verse 12 For *we* (this would be the body of Christ) wrestle NOT against *flesh and blood* but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in *high* places.
These *high* places would not be limited to political but religious places as well. Just as Jeremiah foretold 6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of My People slightly, saying, 'Peace, peace'' when there is NO peace.
Christ Himself said there would be wars and rumors of wars 'fear ye not', now if war is not the cause of fear, the opposite would be 'peace, peace' the time is nigh.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to withstand in the *evil day*, having done all, to stand.
You can read the rest on your own, but if there is no Church here then who is going to fulfill this prophecy?
Well it always used to be. I hope that's not CHANGEing.
OF COURSE GOD THE FATHER’S PRIORITIES ARE TOPS! LOL.
Yes. I’ve often pondered those verses in that light . . .
Still haven’t reached any firm conclusions.
The bible seems to indicate that any Christians hanging around during the Tribulation, more likely than not will have their heads cut off...Like is being done now with the religion of peace people...
Since I'm kinda cowardly anyway, I think I will skip the Tribulation and head out on the first ride outa here, before the Tribulation...Hey, I already got the ticket, may as well use it...
Worthwhile points.
Seems like trolls have been coming out of the woodwork.
And that some may have been “sleeper agent trolls.”
Caught me with teh fingesr typign too fats
Insightful reading for any believer
Well done...
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