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Prophecy Pundits are at it Again
American Vision ^ | February 23, 2009 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 02/24/2009 10:10:12 AM PST by topcat54

Calvary Chapel of Chino California held “ The Southern California Prophecy Conference” last week (Feb. 20–22, 2009). I wonder if those who came to hear speakers like Tim LaHaye, Mark Hitchcock, Paul McGuire, David Hocking, David Reagan, and Ed Hindson were aware that Chuck Smith, the founder of the Calvary Chapel network of churches, made some very definite predictions about when the “rapture” was going to take place.

While cleaning up my office, I came across a cassette tape of a sermon Chuck Smith preached on December 31, 1979. He told his very accepting audience on that day that the rapture would take place in 1981. The former Soviet Republic going into Afghanistan in August of 1978 was the prelude to what Smith considered to be a full-force invasion of the Middle East. It would not be long before “Russia” would invade Israel, Smith told his audience. All of this was said to have been “predicted” by Ezekiel 2600 years ago.

Smith went on to claim in his end-of-the-year message of 30 years ago that because of ozone depletion Revelation 16:8 would be fulfilled during the soon-coming Great Tribulation: “And the fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun; and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.” According to Smith, Halley’s Comet would pass near the earth in 1986 and would wreck atmospheric havoc for those left behind as debris from its million-mile tail pummeled the earth. Halley’s Comet did appear in 1986 with no damage done to our planet. (A similar prelude to the end had been predicted based on the so-called Jupiter Effect.[1]) ...

(Excerpt) Read more at americanvision.org ...


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: dispensationalism; eschatology; preterism; prophecy; tribulation
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To: topcat54
ISRAELATARIANS.

ISRAELaccordingtothefleshOLATORS

351 posted on 03/06/2009 8:03:37 AM PST by Lee N. Field (2)How many things are necessary to know..how I may be delivered from all my sins and miseries)
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To: Lee N. Field

don’t you think it’s only natural for humans to predict, explain and wait for some god-awful event in the human history of mankind to wipe the slate clean? or better yet,
to wait for a savior, a messiah, the “one”, etc... to
deliver man from his own evils? I think it’s perfectly natural but not plausible


352 posted on 03/06/2009 8:07:07 AM PST by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Off Hunting--- for the COLB)
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To: Lee N. Field

don’t you think it’s only natural for humans to predict, explain and wait for some god-awful event in the human history of mankind to wipe the slate clean? or better yet,
to wait for a savior, a messiah, the “one”, etc... to
deliver man from his own evils? I think it’s perfectly natural but not plausible. I think better to place trust in
g-d completely.


353 posted on 03/06/2009 8:09:09 AM PST by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Off Hunting--- for the COLB)
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To: raynearhood
Manasses is a half tribe of Joseph. Joseph minus the half tribe Ephraim leaves only the half tribe Manasses. Manasses is counted twice.

What half tribes??? Did God list any of these tribes as half tribes??? Obviously God disagrees with your assessment...

God lists the 12 tribes as HE determines who they are...It may not be the same 12 tribes that started out initially but so what??? If God says these are now the 12 tribes, then these are the 12 tribes...

The fact that you disagree with God is meaningless...You have shown you disagree with God on a regular basis...

354 posted on 03/06/2009 8:30:53 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: MissDairyGoodnessVT; topcat54; raynearhood
don’t you think it’s only natural for humans to predict, explain and wait for some god-awful event in the human history of mankind to wipe the slate clean? or better yet, to wait for a savior, a messiah, the “one”, etc... to deliver man from his own evils?

We do seem to be wired that way. Such a thing could not be explained evolutionarily -- natural catastrophic disasters of the magnitude expected are not survivable, nor would they happen enough to establish a pattern by selective pressure.

It's the way we've been made.

355 posted on 03/06/2009 8:34:56 AM PST by Lee N. Field (2)How many things are necessary to know..how I may be delivered from all my sins and miseries)
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To: Iscool
The fact that
you disagree
with God
is meaningless...
You have shown
you disagree
with God
on a regular basis...

INDEED!

356 posted on 03/06/2009 8:44:01 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Lee N. Field

Might be tough to fit on a T-shirt.


357 posted on 03/06/2009 8:57:05 AM PST by topcat54
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To: Iscool; raynearhood; Lee N. Field
The fact that you disagree with God is meaningless...You have shown you disagree with God on a regular basis...

This sort of posturing seems to be a characteristic of folks who have little to add to the discussion. I guess you think that by making blanket, unsupportable statements you will win an argument or make points or who knows what.

And then there is the mindless hubris to think that poo-pooing what you believe is akin to disagreeing with God.

Amazing. When did they make you the pope of futurism?

358 posted on 03/06/2009 9:37:18 AM PST by topcat54
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To: Iscool; topcat54; Quix; Cvengr; Lee N. Field
What half tribes??? Did God list any of these tribes as half tribes??? Obviously God disagrees with your assessment...

Sure he does. There are more lists of the Tribes of Israel in the Bible than here.
Genesis 35:23-26
the sons of Leah: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, then Simeon and Levi and Judah and Issachar and Zebulun; the sons of Rachel: Joseph and Benjamin; and the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's maid: Dan and Naphtali; and the sons of Zilpah, Leah's maid: Gad and Asher. These are the sons of Jacob who were born to him in Paddan-aram.
Later, Israel, on his deathbed, blessed Ephraim and Manasseh as his own through which nations would be blessed... Ephraim above Manasseh though Manasseh was the firstborn:
Genesis 48:14-20
But Israel stretched out his right hand and laid it on the head of Ephraim, who was the younger, and his left hand on Manasseh's head, crossing his hands, although Manasseh was the firstborn.

He blessed Joseph, and said,
"The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,
The God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day,
The angel who has redeemed me from all evil,
Bless the lads;
And may my name live on in them,
And the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
And may they grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."


When Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on Ephraim's head, it displeased him; and he grasped his father's hand to remove it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. Joseph said to his father, "Not so, my father, for this one is the firstborn. Place your right hand on his head." But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know; he also will become a people and he also will be great. However, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations."

He blessed them that day, saying,
"By you Israel will pronounce blessing, saying,
'May God make you like Ephraim and Manasseh!'"
Thus he put Ephraim before Manasseh.
Israel then blessed Joseph with twice the birthright, which was subdivided between Joseph's two sons. Thus, the birthrights of Joseph and Rueben (who lost his birthright by defiling his father's bed. Gen 49:3-4) became the birthright of Joseph... the tribe of Joseph, subdivided amongst his sons, who, though blessed recieved no birthright from Israel.

Did you really think I just made this up out of convenience to a covenantal outlook?

God lists the 12 tribes as HE determines who they are...It may not be the same 12 tribes that started out initially but so what???

So you agree, then, that the nation of Israel with whom God made a Covenant is not the same nation of Israel in Revelation? The entire bloodline of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not there.

The fact that you disagree with God is meaningless...You have shown you disagree with God on a regular basis...

And thus, our conversation comes to a close. A statement with such insight and theological prowess is just impossible to argue. < /sarcasm >
359 posted on 03/06/2009 10:18:30 AM PST by raynearhood (<< BEWARE!!! A consistent NAYSAYER posted this reply)
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To: raynearhood
The entire bloodline of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not there.

I haven't laid out all the involved verses and considered all the nuances of that issue.

HOWEVER, in terms of REPLACEMENTARIANISM--YOUR POINT IS SILLY AND MOOT.

GOD HAS CLEARLY DECREED 12 TRIBES AS BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB

WILL

LITERALLY INHERIT HIS LITERAL PROMISES TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB.

That's just a Biblical fact stated clearly and plainly in many dozens of verses.

Your frothing at the fingers about 'spiritual Israel' in terms of God's promises to Blood Descendants Israel is just so much Biblical cluelessness or willful blindness, as far as I can detect or discern.

It's also rather mystifying psychologically. Why would anyone calling themselves "Christian" work so hard to call God a liar?

360 posted on 03/06/2009 10:29:23 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: raynearhood; Iscool; Lee N. Field; Cvengr
”God lists the 12 tribes as HE determines who they are...It may not be the same 12 tribes that started out initially but so what???”

So you agree, then, that the nation of Israel with whom God made a Covenant is not the same nation of Israel in Revelation? The entire bloodline of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not there.

Either that or God is very fickle. Take the poor tribe of Dan, for example. One minute it’s in, then it’s out, then it’s back in again (according to futurism).

361 posted on 03/06/2009 10:33:33 AM PST by topcat54
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To: topcat54

Essentially, it does not matter WHICH of the blood descendants God decrees to fill the bill for the 12 tribes.

Even on tribe reaping the promises God promised to the blood descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

would flush REPLACEMENTARIAN PRETERIST HOGWASH DOWN THE TOILET WHOLESALE.


362 posted on 03/06/2009 10:40:50 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
Your frothing at the fingers

Of all your replies, this is the first I can remember that brought a smile to my face. At least the above statement did. "Frothing at the fingers..." I like it. I've personally used: "I could keep driving home the point until I'm blue in the fingers, but..." Anyhow, I'll probably use it in the future.

It's also rather mystifying psychologically. Why would anyone calling themselves "Christian" work so hard to call God a liar?

I call myself a Christian because I have been justified by faith through the redemptive work of Christ. I have never called God a liar. I simply call your interpretation of Scripture incorrect, your theology silly, and your attempts to exegete newspapers against Scripture misguided.

I haven't laid out all the involved verses and considered all the nuances of that issue.

Until you have, and can reply intelligently without invective assaults and empty arguments, your frothing at the fingers will be ignored on this issue.
363 posted on 03/06/2009 11:05:29 AM PST by raynearhood (<< BEWARE!!! A consistent NAYSAYER posted this reply)
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To: Lee N. Field

I’ll throw myself on the mercy of g-d.


364 posted on 03/06/2009 11:46:33 AM PST by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Off Hunting--- for the COLB)
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To: raynearhood
Until you have, and can reply intelligently without invective assaults and empty arguments, your frothing at the fingers will be ignored on this issue.

Don't hold your breath. I've been trying to get him to say something intelligent for quite some time now. Nothing has worked. Like trying to get rid of a harmless but annoying insect.

I suspect he's hiding his abject ignorance of the Bible behind all these cutsie/colorful phrases.

365 posted on 03/06/2009 11:56:02 AM PST by topcat54
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To: topcat54
Don't hold your breath.

I won't. I've been back and forth with Quix before on different, but similar issues of interpretation. The body of the argument has always been the same.
366 posted on 03/06/2009 12:11:31 PM PST by raynearhood (<< BEWARE!!! A consistent NAYSAYER posted this reply)
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To: raynearhood

Glad to be of humor service.

Y’all will likely need a lot of humor when the truth begins to slap y’all upside the faces eventually.


367 posted on 03/06/2009 6:43:26 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix; raynearhood; Lee N. Field
Y’all will likely need a lot of humor when the truth begins to slap y’all upside the faces eventually.

HAH!!!

Now that's funny. Same tune we've been hearing from the futurists "any day now" crowd for decades.

You Israeloholics can tap us on the shoulder when we're supposed to take you seriously, which, from the looks of things won't be anytime soon.

368 posted on 03/06/2009 8:25:11 PM PST by topcat54 (Laughing at a futurist is not scoffing at God.)
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To: topcat54

Given that you don’t take God’s Word seriously in terms of

GOD ALMIGHTY’S PROPHECIES

REGARDING

THE BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB

looks like I’m in GREAT COMPANY.


369 posted on 03/06/2009 8:39:18 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
looks like I’m in GREAT COMPANY.

Here they are:


370 posted on 03/06/2009 9:15:07 PM PST by topcat54 (Laughing at a futurist is not scoffing at God.)
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To: topcat54

Man, I wish I had hair that good.


371 posted on 03/06/2009 9:32:56 PM PST by raynearhood (<<DANGER!!!! Proud NAYSAYER posted this reply!!!)
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To: raynearhood
Man, I wish I had hair that good.

Not sure. I think whatever they put in it must affect their brain.

372 posted on 03/06/2009 9:49:08 PM PST by topcat54 (Laughing at a futurist is not scoffing at God.)
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To: topcat54
I think whatever they put in it must affect their brain.


Whatever they put in it, I'd avoid... but just to have the hair to put it in.... oh, that would be glorious.
373 posted on 03/06/2009 10:29:13 PM PST by raynearhood (Experiencing male pattern baldness since 1996)
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