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To: raynearhood
And Jesus is not Moses. But Moses was a type of Christ. Same same.

Except there were explicit contracts made by God regarding Israel explicitly. God didn't promise Moses He would make Him God the Son, but He did promise a land, a seed, and a blessing to Abraham, not merely spiritualizing the promises made.

285 posted on 03/05/2009 4:26:25 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr; DarthVader; airborne; American in Israel; auggy; backhoe; bearsgirl90; betsyross60; ...
NEWLY CREATED ABBREVIATED END TIMES/ DREAMS/ VISIONS/ PROPHECY PING LIST FOR MORE FREQUENT PINGS THAN THE ORIGINAL LIST. Please let me know if you want on or off either list.

Ahhhhh,

I see that my post was on this thread. #127. I see some key points were predictably ignored by the Bible and Israel trashers.

I think I'll expound on them a bit here. Not, per se, for the Bible & Israel trashing Replacementarians but for the lurkers who might be reading too quickly to notice some of the trashers' absurdities. It will give me a chance to clear up a host of typos, too.

[Quix color, bold and ALL CAPS emphases]

Have learned on FR that what I thought was very basic OBVIOUS Scripture . . . some folks would consider otherwise.

The absurd notion that most of the END TIMES prophecies were fulfilled in 70AD etc. is just mind bogglingly UNBIBLICAL-TO-THE-MAX.

It's hard for me to conceive that there are even folks who dare to think of themselves as "Christians" who would dare to imagine that God would fail to fulfill even the tiniest of His promises to Israel literally.

Am reading an interesting book:

FROM IRAQ TO ARMAGEDDON: The Final Showdown Approaches

by Keith Intrater.

He notes . . .

---------------------------------------------

p90:

Romans 11:12,15
If their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

HOW IS IT that such clear Scripture can be so easily trashed by the REPLACEMENTARIANS? Willful blindness? Rebellion against God's will? Obtuse willful cluelessness? Virulent Antisemitism? Irrational hatred of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Jealousy? What? Mystifying.

GOD IS DECLARING THROUGH PAUL--HOW MUCH MORE RICHES WILL COME FROM THEIR BEING GRAFTED BACK IN!

Yet REPLACEMENTARIANS ARE BARRING THE DOOR with sharp staves and with seemingly self-righteous haughtiness INSISTING that Israel's day is over WHEN GOD CLEARLY IS INSISTING WHOLESALE OTHERWISE.

If their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

---

INDEED--RESURRECTION LIFE FROM THE DEAD! I haven't paid much attention to this sentence in many readings of it--over the whole of my life. However, it's kind of profound. PAUL IS HERE LINKING RESURRECTION LIFE WITH ISRAEL'S BEING GRAFTED BACK INTO THE TRUE VINE! What a mystery--since it's not clarified. I guess that makes it easier for the REPLACEMENTARIANS TO TRASH AND FLUSH SCRIPTURE.

"Most Jewish people, because of their rejection of Yeshua, have been like branches cut off of their own tree. The gentile church has been like branches grafted into the tree of faith (see Rom 11:16-22). However, we are to believe that the Jewish people will return and be grafted into the faith of their own Messiah--the most spiritually "natural thing" for them to do."

Romans 11:23
They also, if they do not continue in unbelief will be grafted in, for God is ABLE to graft them in again. [Qx emphasis]

Not only is God able to bring the Jewish people back to faith in Yeshua, He has promised that He WILL DO SO. [Qx emphasis].

I guess since REPLACEMENTARIANS DIDN'T WRITE SCRIPTURE, they feel it's their right to trash it??? And they still consider themselves "Christians?" Amazing.

Romans 11:26a
And so ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.
[QX emphasis]

"Notice the words 'and so' in this vese. It's not just that all Israel will be saved but that something will happen which will lead to that salvation. What is that something which leads to the 'and so'? It is the change in the attitude of the Church toward Israel's destiny:

Romans 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this MYSTERY, lest you should be WISE IN YOUR OWN OPINIONS, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so . . .
[Qx emphasis]

As the Church receives the revelation of the end-times restoration of Israel, it will pave the way for Israel to come to salvation, which in turn will lead to the second coming of Yeshua.

In the meantime, we have a paradoxical position toward the Jewish people who have not yet received the Lord. It is part negative and part positive.

Romans 11:28
Concerning the gospel they are enemies FOR YOUR SAKE, but concerning the election they are BELOVED for THE SAKE OF THE FATHERS.

"FOR THE SAKE OF THE FATHERS."

OBVIOUSLY the REPLACEMENTARIANS have horribly RIPPED that verse right out of their pseudo-Bibles. Gotta trash & flush that sentence! AT THE VERY LEAST they have to mangle and rationalize it away--rationalize it away TO THE MAX! Maybe their rationalizers are the only parts of their synapses still pseudo-functioning.

OF COURSE IT'S FOR THE SAKE OF THE FATHERS! GOD HAS MADE THAT CLEAR FROM ABRAHAM ON!

Oh, right . . . only God's promises that the REPLACEMENTARIANS CONSTRUE TO APPLY TO THEM are to be faithfully fulfilled. Raaaggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttt! /sar

page 91

The Remnant Within Israel

I have great love for the body of Messianic believers in Israel, which I see as the spiritual remnant of the nation of Israel. The very existence of this remnant has great prophetic significance.

. . .

The third group is the Messianic Jews, those who are Israeli citizens, Jewish and believers in Yeshua. This group currently numbers around seven thousand. It is this group that I am primarily identified with. I believe they have a key role to play in the Kingdom of God.

. . .

p92

We know that Paul's answer to the question whether the prophetic purposes of Israel have been made void is "CERTAINLY NOT! (See Rom 11:1). But how could the destiny of Israel not be canceled, considering the rejection of the Messiah and the punishment from God? Here Paul's answer is also clear: The Remnant.

Throughout history there was always a minority of true believers within the greater nation of Israel. Despite the sins of the nation, that believing remnant carried within it (in seed form) THE DIVINE DESTINY OF THE NATION.

Every nation, in fact, has a prophetic calling from God. That calling is not seen in the overall population of the nation, but in the community of true believers found within the nation. The prophetic calling of the United States is not seen in the motion pictures from Hollywood. That of South Africa is not seen in the racial problems; of Germany, not in Nazism; of Russia, not in communism, etc. The destiny of a nation and its covenant with God are found within the remnant of believers within the nation.

The same is true in Israel. The source of its destiny is not in Tel Aviv discos, nor political parties, nor rabbinic councils. It is in Yeshua, and in the community of citizens that believe in Him. If one wants to understand the destiny of Israel, he must look not to the larger unbelieving population of Israel, but to the core community of believers within the nation. Gentile Christians become confused by not making this distinction. Either they reject God's purposes for Israel altogether, or they try to make something overly spiritual of Israel's pioneers and politicians.

I THINK THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING AND AT LEAST MOSTLY ACCURATE KEY POINT OF INTRATER'S.

Certainly it IS true that God's focus has tended to be throughout history on those who loved Him, believed in Him, walked with Him.

In Israel, we currently have folks believing in GOD ALMIGHTY of two tracks. The traditional Jewish track and those already believing in Christ as their Messiah.

It is certainly plausible to me that God will take up the Christian Messianic Jews as His sole focus in these end times in terms of fulfilling HIS PROMISES to Abraham. IF SO, THE REPLACEMENTARIANS and their rants are worse than smelly burps. Not only are they hollow and UNBiblical, they are absurd to the max. We are, after all, talking about CHRISTIAN JEWS! Sheesh!

Nevertheless, to me, it is ALSO PLAUSIBLE that God will continue to fulfill HIS WORD about HE THAT SEEKS ME SHALL FIND ME--in terms of the honest Torah believing Jews truly seeking God Almighty and their true Messiah--to at some point, by God's miracle WHO PLACED THE BLINDERS ON THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE--TO REMOVE THE BLINDERS SO THAT THEY, TOO, WILL SEE THEIR TRUE MESSIAH AS THEIR TRUE MESSIAH AND OWN HIM AS THEIR TRUE MESSIAH--IN GOD'S WAY--IN GOD'S TIME--IN THESE END TIMES--AS SCRIPTURE HAS CLEARLY INDICATED WILL BE THE CASE--REGARDLESS OF REPLACEMENTARIAN TRASHING OF SUCH SCRIPTURES. HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY BUT NOT THE TINIEST PUNCTUATION MARK OF SCRIPTURE--GOD'S WORD--REGARDLESS of the arrogance of the REPLACEMENTARIANS.

It would be a small and very Biblical thing for God to do.

Of course, it wouldn't fit III Sylvester chapter 6 verse 66. I don't think God cares about that, in the least.

. . .

The way to have a balanced theology concerning Israel and its destiny is to consider the Messianic Jewish community within Israel. Paul wrote [p93] that the way to understand God's plan for Israel was TO COMPARE THE FAITHFUL REMNANT IN THE TIME OF ELIJAH TO THE MESSIANIC JEWISH COMMUNITY OF HIS DAY.

Romans 11:2,4-5
God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah . . .
what does the divine response say to him? 'I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.'
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Even so, as it was in the time of Elijah, so it is today. The destiny of Israel, God's plan for the nation, is found within the remnant. Even Elijah was confused when he saw that such a huge majority of the nation of Israel were not believers. However, God told him not to look at the unbelieving majority but t the believing minority.

In Elijah's time, in Paul's time, and EVEN SO AT THIS PRESENT TIME--there was a remnant and there still is a remnant. AND HOW MANY ARE IN THAT REMNANT? SEVEN THOUSAND.

In the time of Elijah, there was a remnant of seven thousand believers within Israel who carried with them the destiny of the nation. Today there is also a remnant within Israel numbering about seven thousand. This remnant is part of bringing us to a new 'age of Elijah' in our generation. God had to point out to Elijah the importance of the several thousand faithful ones. The revelation of the remnant gave him hope, faith, and a better understanding of God's purpose. I believe God is trying to point out the importance of the Messianic remnant within Israel today as well.

p95

The prophetic call for the community of faith to recognize the place of Israel is not a racist preference for the Jewish people, bu rather a SUBMISSION TO THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD. ,FONT COLOR=NAVY> It is a recognition of Jerusalem as the seat of HIS earthly authority and a recognition of Yeshua as King of the Jews.

I believe Intrater is quite right. BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.

It is even somewhat conceivable that his Biblical insights COULD be a path or some fair-minded REPLACEMENTARIAN Calvinsts to acquire a BIBLICAL understanding of prophecy in our era. . . . perhaps even in the nick of time, at the rate Biblical prophecy is being increasingly fulfilled.

I think Intrater makes many valid and interesting points about the Jewish body of Messianic believers currently in Israel. And, God may well focus entirely on them--multiplying them into the 144,000--12,000 INDIVIDUALS DESCENDED from every ORIGINAL PATRIARCH--IT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT GOD WILL CERTAINLY USE SUCH DESCENDANTS IN COMPRISING THE 144,000. Whether He will do it by multiplying the current 7,000 Messianic Jewish believers INTO that 144,000 remains to be seen. He may well. He might well do it through any number of other means, as well.

And I would imagine that His thought to the PROTESTING REPLACEMENTARIANS about their protesting GOD ALMIGHTY'S DOING SO--is that there are some Jordan river rocks they could go suck on since they have obviously lost their passifiers.

290 posted on 03/05/2009 7:56:59 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr
Except there were explicit contracts made by God regarding Israel explicitly.

Contracts that were fulfilled and perfected in the New one.

not merely spiritualizing the promises made.

Merely spiritualizing? The physical life, death, and resurrection of our Savior and the real salvation of all those who are justified through His real redemptive work IS NOT mere spiritualization.
314 posted on 03/05/2009 10:39:51 AM PST by raynearhood ("I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels" -John Calvin)
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