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To: topcat54; TaraP; Quix; Smittie; xjcsa; Iscool; Lee N. Field; Frumanchu; raynearhood

You were saying — “What about the alleged prophecy regarding the restoration of national Israel. All the pop prophecy gurus back in the 70s and 80s where absolutely certain about the very specific sign of the “fig tree” found in the Matthew 24, including the Calvary Chapel patriarchy. That why 1988 became the focus of so many sermons and books. Folke give Edgar Whisenant a hard time for writing “88 Reasons”, but the fact is he was only following down the path started by Chuck Smith and Co. He was not the problem. Hal, and Chuck, and Salem Kirban — they were the problem.”

There’s no question about it — the “nation of Israel” has been an expected event — even before Israel became a nation again. There were even Bible preachers back in the 19th century (1800s) who advised Hertzl not to take land in Africa for a “nation” for the Jews, but to only do so in the land of Israel, and showed him the Bible prophecies that indicated this was to be so. I mention this to say that even back in the 1800s, Bible preachers and teachers were expecting the establishment of the nation of Israel again.

One reason would be that one could not have a Temple in Jerusalem unless the Jews were there and unless they controlled the land. That’s one of the types of “reasoning” that they used (before the “nation of Israel” was established again, once more).

And *now* we see that the religious people over in Israel (they are non-religious people... there... :-) .... ) are preparing for the building of the Temple. They have prepared the garments, the instruments to use in worship in the Temple, the furnishings and other implements to be used, the solid gold menora and procedures that they’ll have to go through in order to implement the sacrifices once again. That’s all *in the works* right now.

And, we see from what Bible prophecy teachers say in this subject, that there *will be sacrifices* instituted once more, and that this requires that a Temple be put into place there.

What do you think is one of the *main hold-ups* for the “final status peace agreement” with the Muslims (and Jews)? It’s the *rebuilding of the Temple*. The Jews will never have *any* final status agreement with the Muslims over in Israel — until — they’ve got it settled on “rebuilding the Temple” and restarting the “sacrificial system” as they had in the past.

So, you see, these things are “taking place” right now — and in our “real world politics” — the Temple in Jerusalem — is one of the *main holdups” to the final status talks on peace. The other item that is a “hold-up” on the final status talks on peace — is “control of Jerusalem” Those are the *two items* that the Oslo Peace Accords put on the list for the *very last* to be settled — as they were the most contentious of all...

87 posted on 02/25/2009 1:05:32 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler; TaraP; Smittie; xjcsa; Iscool; Lee N. Field; Frumanchu; raynearhood
So, all that verbiage aside, you seem to be agreeing with me while denying your earlier claim that that there are absolutely, positively no specific prophecies prior to the rapture. Unless you are also simultaneously trying to claim that the existence of modern Israel is a specific sign of Christ’s return.

BTW, all that stuff about the temple and Islam and such makes absolutely no sense to a person who does not adopt your preconceptions about the future. We’ve haven’t the benefit of seeing things through your peep stones.

Earlier you wrote:

And it will be a “signless event” — in that there are no “signs” which will precede this event that will let people know that it is about to happen.

If the so-called rapture is a “signless event” how come God placed Israel in the land for all these prophecy gurus to be speculating about “fig tree” signs and such? Suggesting dates, etc? There are only two choices; either modern Israel is the fulfillment of specific Bible prophecies and the near will occur within a generation of these things taking place (ala Lindsey and Co.), or modern Israel is not related to any Bible prophecy, and it could disappear tomorrow without any consequence in eschatology terms (other than with the plethora of pop prophecy types who wind up with egg on their face). It would just be another vanishing human nation, just like so many others.

I personally think this is real proof that God as a sense of humor.

90 posted on 02/25/2009 2:37:14 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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