Posted on 03/03/2009 7:44:26 PM PST by delacoert
Brigham Young University has denied an appeal to award a diploma that the creator of a Mormon beefcake calendar says he earned.
Chad Hardy's diploma was withheld by BYU last fall after he was excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which owns and runs the school. Hardy was excommunicated during the month between completing his courses and graduation ceremonies.
Hardy appealed and met with Dean of Students Vernon L. Heperi on Feb. 13. In the meeting, Heperi sought to determine whether Hardy's life is guided by the school's honor code, which reflects the values of the Mormon church.
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
The statement was expressing the poster's opinion of your response; it was not reading your mind or attributing motives.
Thank you for clarifying FR's position on this.
It will be helpful in the future.
SALVATION IS THROUGH THE CHURCH 36. Based on what has been said, no one can obtain salvation from Christ unless they do so through the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the visible Body of Christ.
Now that's conviction that I can respect.
Indeed!!
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
"If I ever pass into heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of Prophet Joseph"
--Brigham Young
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
Are you one of those LDS Organizational® members who complain about NON-Mormons telling the world what they alledgedly believe?
But we're not talking about the Mormons now are we?
Mormon rule #1: When you ARE backed into a corner, do NOT answer questions except with a question of your OWN. CONTROL the direction of conversation and point out alledged problems in CHRISTIANITY and shift THEM into the defensive mode.
That way we'll not be talking about MORMONism any more!
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 71
Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238–239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.
As I have shown you in official Lutheran doctrine, the Lutherans publicly state that the baptist teach false doctrine.
You HAVE??
Where was the LINK?
Where's the PROOF of your allegations?
No - it is NOT enough to continue to ACCUSE folks - unless SOMEone are being run by SATAN.
Are you?
You really and truly get it. Matter of fact you have a better grasp on the concepts of the body of Christ than many “lifers”...
The Mysteries of Godliness-A History of Mormon Temple Worship-Part Three Celestial Marriage
Other facets of Mormon thinking had also matured by the time Brigham Young made that statement. Particularly important was a refinement of the Latter-day Saint view of "eternal life." Prior to receiving the "three degrees of glory" vision in February 1832 (now D&C 76), Mormons, including Smith, understood eternal life in the same sense as other Protestants—as an undifferentiated heaven as the only alternative to an undifferentiated hell. Even after February 1832 and possibly as late as 1843, Smith apparently still conceived "eternal life" as dwelling in the presence of Elohim (God) forever. It was not until May 1843 that Smith ostensibly taught that the celestial kingdom71 contained gradations, with the highest gradation reserved solely for men and women who entered into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage (see D&C 131:1- 4).72 In July 1843 Smith dictated another revelation (now D&C 132) which defined those achieving "exaltation" in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom as "gods."73
The importance of this teaching is seen in another sermon given shortly thereafter on 27 August 1843. Significantly, these comments occurred in a discussion of three orders or levels of priesthood: the Levitical or Aaronic order, the patriarchal order of Abraham, and the fullness of the priesthood of Melchizedek which included "kingly powers" of "anointing & sealing—called elected and made sure."74 Said Smith: "No man can attain to the Joint heirship with Jesus Christ with out being administered to by one having the same power & Authority of Melchisedec." This authority and power came not from "a Prophet nor apostle nor Patriarch only but of [a] King & Priest [of Jesus Christ]."75
-SNIP-
As Brigham Young would explain after Smith's death, "Every man that gets his endowment...[has been] ordained to the Melchisedeck Priesthood, which is the highest order of Priesthood....those who have come in here and have received their washing & anointing will be ordained Kings & Priests, and will then have received the fulness of the Priesthood, all that can be given on earth, for Brother Joseph said he had given us all that could be given to man on the earth."84
The first part of the ceremony—being anointed and ordained a king and priest or queen and priestess—is administered in a temple Holy of Holies or sealing room set apart for that purpose, and is performed by or under the direction of the president of the church. There are usually but not always two witnesses. Only the husband and wife need to dress in their temple robes. The husband leads in a prayer circle, offering signs and praying at an altar. He is then anointed with oil on the top of his head, after which hands are laid on his head and he is ordained a king and a priest unto God to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever. This ordinance gives him the fullness of the priesthood. He is also blessed with the following (as the officiator determines): the power to bind and loose, curse and bless; the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the Holy Spirit of Promise; to live as long as desired; to attain godhood; to be sealed to eternal life (if not done previously); to have the power to open the heavens; and other blessings.
Next the wife is anointed with oil on the top of her head, after which hands are laid on her head and she is ordained a queen and a priestess unto her husband, to rule and reign with him in his kingdom forever. She is blessed with the following: to receive all the blessings of the everlasting priesthood; to be an heir to all the blessings sealed upon her husband; to be exalted with her husband; to have ministering angels attend her; to be sealed up to eternal life; to receive the blessings of godhood; to live as long as desired; to have the power of eternal lives (of posterity without end); and other blessings. The specifics of the anointing are recorded by hand in a large leather-bound register.
At the conclusion of this ordinance, the washing of the husband's feet by his wife is explained to the couple. It is a private ordinance, without witnesses. Its significance is related to the resurrection of the dead, as Heber Kimball noted.86 The couple is told to attend to the ordinance at a date of their choosing in the privacy of their home. At the determined time the husband dedicates the home and the room in which they perform the ordinance, which then follows the pattern of Mary's anointing Jesus in Matthew 12. What the wife does is in memory of what Mary did: she washes and anoints the body of her husband (similar to the initiatory washings and anointings performed in the temple). The ordinance symbolically prepares the husband for burial, and in this way the wife lays claim upon him in the resurrection.87 Having authority, she also pronounces those blessings she feels appropriate upon her husband. Kimball's journal entry derives from a speculative belief taught by early Mormons that Jesus married Mary and Martha, the sisters of Lazarus.88 Historical records indicate that the husband and wife perform the second part of the priesthood ordinance from a few days to as much as a few years after the second anointing.89 Only the first part of the second anointing can be performed vicariously for the dead, and only by those who have already received the ordinance.90
A history of mormon temple worship
Now, just WHAT were you saying about "false doctrine"???
I remember back in 2005 when while on an ecumenical mission trip down to the Mississippi coast how the Lutherans killed at least 3 Baptist and tossed their bodies into the gulf.
Don't get me started about how bad some of my fellow Methodist beat down a few Catholics at an inner church basketball tournament, I know at least one of the “Pope lovers” is still walking with a limp.
Add to that the tens of thousands of dead and wounded in America alone that happens every Christmas when arguments of which Carols should be sung or whether the Wise men came that day or a few weeks later and other issues raise their ugly heads. Not to mention the so called “Ecumenical Christmas Morning Worship Service” that some churches have that is really a cover to kill off those from other sect and get rid of those lousy heretic.
You are right, there is way to much violence between these sects, I don't even see how they can exist in the same country much less the same room holding hands in prayer to the same loving father and his only begotten son.
(BTW, in case you or anyone else is a bit slow on the up take, this is sarcasm...)
You know Stourme, you bring up very valid points and it explains a lot of things that occur between different “sects” of so called "Christians".Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance
In Northern Ireland, "the troubles" are partly rooted in Catholic/Protestant differences, partly in political allegiances, and probably partly in hatreds that go back so far that the exact reason is lost in the mists of time.
After 3,600 killings and assassinations over 30 years, some progress has been made in the form of a ceasefire and an independent status for the country.
About 200 thousand dead so far this year alone just over how high a cross should be!
Don't get me started about Dallas last year! Whew doggies...
BTW read your own articles, there is much more than simple religious differences such as baptism concepts going on in Ireland, and I think anyone who has read the news AND paid attention the past 30 years or more knows that.
Your article also clearly states that the solution to the violence was independent status for the Country. Exactly how does that address religious issues and divisions? Sound a tick political to me.
And notice I did not even ask for a link? Why, because I know what you posted is true, I have been aware of the Irish issues for years. The problem is that it doesn't totally fit your case.
But thanks for playing.
Now if you excuse me, I am headed off to smash the stained glass windows over at the Episcopals place...
Or was that the Lutherans?
I will have to check my day timer...
You really and truly get it. Matter of fact you have a better grasp on the concepts of the body of Christ than many “lifers”...
Thank you.
placemark
Dear Stourme,
Thanks for your reply. I sincerely appreciate your devotion to your religion. I’m not sure why some of the Mormon faith have a way of finding imaginary insult when indeed none exists. I do, however, understand the anger.
I would be angry knowing that I’ve been lied to and led to believe the impossible: that I could accept a “cultist” atmosphere as being sincerely tied to God, and thereafter, I could become as God Himself, or a god of my own choosing - on a planet of my own - assuming I’m male (which I’m not).
I assure that if you were to seek out the Truth, you would find its (Mormonism’s) foundations unacceptable to the Way.
As to your reply. You quoted so much of the Mormon “scripture” that put me to the task of reading not only Mormon sites but posts of what some Mormons call “anti” here on FR and elsewhere. I could devote a lot of time on this term (“anti”) alone as to the psychological effect so much so that it would need a thread of its own. I’ll leave that be for time’s sake.
The D&C, Book of Mormon, etc. , cited by you and others of your religion does little - actually nothing - to sway me. I am Christian. I have read loads of the Mormon history and way, and always walk away feeling dirty because of its having been produced by polygamists, criminals, etc., and having wasted dear time that could have been spent in the Holy Bible.
This, surely, comes as no surprise to you if you’ve indeed read the very basics of Mormon history.
Please do not mistake this as an insult, rather take it as a truth to those trying to mesh Mormonism with Christianity: The Koran is an equivalent.
It (the Koran), sides with “God” when necessary to convert others in the beginning. Then, lo and behold, and not known to the unsuspecting, the serpent slides in and seeks to destroy and take away the believer from God in such a sly way so subtle and so easily acceptable because its evil is enwrapped in the Word — added therein are the words of men who are nothing less than slayers of the soul.
Do you believe that Joseph Smith’s (founder) preaching of polygamy (later rejected by other church leaders) was right or wrong? Which is it in the mind of current Mormons?
Who was right? J. S. or the others following him? Or is that God said, “Hey, I was wrong. I was right when I said it was ok to have multiple wives, but now I realise I was wrong,” ?
The posts of most of your faith are filled with nothing but questions in response to sincere questions. That is unacceptable in adult conversation. Needless to say, it’s difficult to have a decent and intelligent conversation with those who only respond with questions. Always with the shifting.
I will defend my Lord, Jesus the Christ, and His Word as being right forever. I don’t need someone to tell me that God wavers; I believe that to be a personal damnation of the Word of God or, someone saying at heart that they need more, more, more, to prove God. No thanks. You keep it.
Understand, I cannot reject the Word of God. I cannot accept the words of someone who believes that God constantly changes the rules to suit the man writing at the time - no matter what hat he may wear.
I do appreciate your reply. I hope ALL people should come to know Jesus Christ as Lord, but to understand that no one will ever be as He. Perhaps, in short, that should be the test: “Does my religion teach me that I will be equal to my God?”
If so, please, get out of your “church”.
HE is Creator. HE is Savior. HE IS LORD AND EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW. Including yours and mine.
As you said you did with me, I’ve taken the time to read some of your posts. Perhaps I may be booted for saying so, but yours are hostile to Christians and yet you seem to take offense at those speaking (writing) to you in a meek and mild manner.
Stourme, I’ll do as another poster here and “shake the dust off. . . ”.
I wish you the best, however, and hope you read enough here or elsewhere to see the fallacy, lies, and damnation within the words of your Hope Ticket to Heaven, Joseph Smith.
BR
I found redemption though Jesus Christ when I was 19 (33 years ago), and I have stumbled more than a few times along the way. Only recently did I come to terms with a terrible need for approval that was inside me - a need that made me susceptible to being in a cult. Not only to be in one, but to be active and "successful" in it - a pattern of living that had helped make me "successful" in most areas of life.
30+ years ago I was a member of a non-denominational congregation that turned abusive. I had been a member of that congregation for about 4 years when the head pastor changed. The new pastor led the congregation toward a brand of charismatic chaos established by Hobart Freeman. By destructive, I mean a mean a rigid culture that: relegated women to servitude (including my wonderful wife who knew it was bondage from the beginning); demanded rejection of medical treatment (leading to the death of babies); incorporated outrageously false prophecy; sent out large numbers of freshly minted young pastors to travel and speak at meetings over a wide area; and much more. I hang my head in shame now as think of it, and of my part in it, however small.
My wife and I left that church before too long. However, I did not come to terms with how hurt I was for about 20 years. I could not face facts about how painful and destructive it was to me until about 4 years ago. The testimony of recovering Mormons helped me the most. Their testimonies helped me admit to myself that I had been in a cult (though not a Mormon one). Most importantly, their testimonies helped me to see the terrible need for approval that was inside me. Testimonies about the confusion, pain, anger and guilt were very similar to my own experience. Though the theology was quite different, I recognized the controlling and manipulating behavior of the leaders. The denial behavior of the congregation was also very similar (me included - or should I say especially).
By mentioning these things I hope to have partially explained why I choose to post the way I do. My weaknesses and failures allowed me to live in a cult. I lived in pain from it for a long time. I was helped by reading the testimonies of former Mormons. Cults are cults and they're destructive, so I will talk about it in hopes that it helps someone. The truth has set me free, and keeps setting me free.
I've already gone on too long, but there is something else I want to explain: My mother was Roman Catholic and my father converted to Catholicism, though raised Lutheran. I was raised Roman Catholic, and received Baptism at Our Lady of Grace Parish, Ballston Lake, NY. I received First Communion, and Confirmation at Holy Family Parish in Syracuse, NY. I was catechized and otherwise educated in Augustinian tradition through graduation from college at Villanova University. As a boy, I was strongly influenced by the charismatic renewal in the Roman Catholic Church. As I now think about it, I see that the charismatic renewal made it easy for me to look outside the Catholic Church, and I did so as a young man. I was baptized again in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost (as with Roman Catholicism), but this time by full immersion in a public swimming pool in 1978. In the the non-denominational, charismatic chaos of the late 70s, I met my wife-to-be, and we were married in 1982. Even though I would like to discuss returning to Roman Catholic Church, my wife won’t discuss it, period.
The last part may explain why I post in some Catholic threads. I hope that my desire to participate in both Protestant and Catholic threads does not offend anyone. I also hope that I have explained my confession ("denomination").
GF
Oh delacort, Thank you for your post!
God can use the evil things of the world for His purposes, and He is using your experiences in a mighty way.
Don’t let others get you down. Keep your focus on Him, always, and you will find strength.
Appreciate your sharing. I’m praying that healing will come to you and your family quickly.
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