Posted on 06/27/2009 10:33:55 PM PDT by bdeaner
“Just reading the words here, it seems pretty simple and straightforward that works are necessary for salvation, and not just faith.”
What is necessary for salvation is that we be born again.
John 3: “3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
What happens when we are born again?
Ephesians 2: “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”
When we are born again, we are born to a new life of imitating Christ.
Romans 6: “1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life...
9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.”
So there is no conflict between faith and good works. Salvation involves our dying with Christ, and becoming a new creation, “..created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”
The only conflict in the clear meaning of scripture is when someone reads one or two verses, out of context, and then tries to apply just those verses.
And the correct response to someone who claims faith frees him from doing good is found, not in the Catholic Catechism, or in the teachings of a Pope, but in the clear teaching provided for us in the Bible.
As it was summarized in the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith:
“1.7 Not all things in Scripture are equally plain in themselves, nor equally clear to everyone. Yet those things that are essential to be known, believed and obeyed for salvation are so clearly set forth and explained in one place of Scripture or another, that not only the educated but also the uneducated may attain a satisfactory understanding of them by using ordinary means.”
“It is usually made clear that those non-Catholics who claim they have received Jesus as their Saviour but reject the notion that the Catholic religion is the one, true, blah, blah, blah, are not participants or recipients of the salvation that Jesus Christ offers... “
I believe that was the teaching of the Catholic Church prior to Vatican 2. Since then, their teaching has become a bit more blurred. This, in turn, was an amazing discovery after nearly 2000 years...
In John 3:3-6, Christ says it is necessary, but He does not say it is sufficient.
Matthew 13:
"24 He put another parable before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?' 28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' So the servants said to him, 'Then do you want us to go and gather them?' 29 But he said, 'No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"
"But this problem of doctrinal incoherence is resolved if there is ONE, singular teaching authority to which Christians can appeal. And there is really no other Church other than the Catholic Church that can be Biblically and Apostolically linked to a teaching authority provided directly by Christ, to serve as the "pillar and ground of truth."
I spent some time last night reading about the history of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has had multiple Popes at one time, bitter fighting (with folks killed) between factions, Popes excommunicating Popes...its record as a single teaching authority is very spotty, to say the least.
“So remind me again of the protestant excuse for taking the thrice mentioned “born again” literally, while figuratively understanding “this is my body” ...mentioned five times. “
I’ve NEVER met a Protestant who believes in taking ‘born again’ literally. The only one I ever heard of taking it literally was Nicodemus: “4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
“Where does scripture say to interpret scripture by scripture?”
Most adults interpret ANY writing as a whole. If I want to know what the author thinks, I need to read the ENTIRE book.
It isn’t Protestant doctrine, just the way adults behave in trying to understand the author’s intent.
“No stranger than how protestants deny the body and blood of Christ.”
No Protestant does that. We DO deny that wine is turned into blood by a priest, or that bread becomes actual flesh, or that Christ is sacrificed repeatedly.
Psalms 57: “ 1 Be merciful to me, O God, be merciful to me,
for in you my soul takes refuge;
in the shadow of your wings I will take refuge,
till the storms of destruction pass by.”
In this verse, we learn God is a chicken...
Where in the Bible do you find the requirement for Communion in order to be saved?
Romans 6 - in its entirety, to make it clearer...
"1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 "
This is just a test. Please ignore. I am having trouble posting for some reason.
Beyond being born again, what is required of Petronski for eternal life?
Amen, Mr. Rogers, and thanks.
The Bible also tells us that God fashioned certain good works for us to do. We need to be seeking THOSE particular good works by listening to the Holy Spirit. Where does He want us to go? What does He want us to do when we get there? To whom does He want us to minister? What missions does he want us involved with? The list goes on. Salvation by faith HAS to come first so the Holy Spirit can teach us these things.
I won’t answer your mindless posts, Petronski. bye bye
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.