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50 Reasons Why We Are Living In The End Times: Part 1
Lamb and Lion Ministries Blog ^ | 13 JULY 2009 | Dr. David R. Reagan

Posted on 07/25/2009 2:40:04 AM PDT by Quix

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To: Quix

Thanks for the ping!


151 posted on 07/26/2009 9:11:19 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: guitarplayer1953
I can name the heretic religions that share, and base their theology on, the eschatology and theological systematic espoused in this article. Can you name one that bases their eschatology and theological systematic on, say, amillenialism?*

*It's a trick question.
152 posted on 07/27/2009 1:47:19 AM PDT by raynearhood ("Naysayers for Jesus" - Charter Member)
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To: Cvengr; raynearhood; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
Obviously such a premise is stated by somebody lacking in theological wherewithal to recognize …

Given the trivial commentary by dispensationalists in this and other related threads, such a comment is laughable.

All of the dispensational leaning pastors I've observed prefer to only teach from Greek and Hebrew

I recall Hal Lindsey was quick to tout his abilities in Greek to “rightly divide” the Bible along dispensational lines. It was that very knowledge of Greek that supposedly led him to conclude Jesus was returning in the rapture in 1981.

It was also Hymenaeus and Alexander, well versed in Greek, who denied the orthodox view of Christ’s second coming (not unlike most dispensationalists today) and was condemned by the apostle Paul.

The hallmark doctrine of dispensationalism, the secret pre-trib rapture, is not plainly or literally taught in the Hebrew or Greek of Scripture. So much for claim that the language skills of dispensationalists are superior to all others. How could they arrive at an erroneous doctrine such as this?

The point is that folks in dispensational pews are largely ignorant of the Bible in any systematic fashion, preferring to believe the wild exaggerations of their teachers. It is an eschatology that feeds on the ignorance of those being taught. That why folks can get by writing nonsensical tales like “50 Reasons Why We Are Living In The End Times”. It only makes sense to those who have drunk deeply from the dispensational kool aid.

153 posted on 07/27/2009 5:04:21 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Cvengr; raynearhood; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
A “literal” hermeneutic, if consistent, forces the dispensational interpreter into a hopeless dilemma. On the one hand, the New Testament is clear: no more animal sacrifices. On the other hand, a “literal” interpretation of Ezekiel 40-48 is clear: animal sacrifices will be reinstituted in the Millennium. What must be done to resolve the dilemma?

Weasel out of it! Even dispensationalists recognize the heresy of arguing for the reinstitution of Levitical animal sacrifices. To solve the problem, they argue that the sacrifices in Ezekiel 40-48 are “memorial” sacrifices, in the same way the Lord’s Supper is a memorial. These sacrifices will not be propitiatory or in any way an atonement.

There’s just one slight problem: the text won’t allow it. Ezekiel 45:17 reads: “Then it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the New Moons, the Sabbaths, and at all the appointed seasons of the house of Israel. He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel” (emphasis mine). The sacrifices are meant “to make atonement. ” Literally, the Hebrew reads “to cover, propitiate.” Similarly in verse 20 Ezekiel writes, “And so you shall do on the seventh day of the month for everyone who has sinned unintentionally or in ignorance. Thus you shall make atonement for the temple” (emphasis mine). Once more, the same Hebrew word appears.

DISPENSATIONALISM’S HERMENEUTIC: “LITERAL, EXCEPT WHEN EMBARRASSING”

What do your dispenational Greek and Hebrew scholars do with that? Weasel out of it? Twist the Greek and Hebrew? Cover up? Hope the unwashed masses in the pew won't notice their error? Sell another book to change the subject?
154 posted on 07/27/2009 5:19:00 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Quix
REPLACEMENTARIANS
155 posted on 07/27/2009 5:24:59 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: topcat54

Thanks for bumping the thread.


156 posted on 07/27/2009 5:30:14 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54; Alamo-Girl; airborne; AngieGal; annieokie; aragorn; auggy; backhoe; bearsgirl90; ...
I've known for some time that

REPLACEMENTARIANS, a-mils, preterists, post-mils et al

seem to have virtually a genetic incapacity &/or unwillingness

to TRUST GOD

. . . particularly to TRUST THAT GOD CAN

AND WILL

PERFORM HIS WORD PRECISELY AS HE WROTE IT.

I personally believe it's because so many of them keep pretending that they have successfully packaged God away into their tiny preconceived little boxes.

Thankfully, The God of the UNRUBBERIZED BIBLE

is FAR toooooooo BIG for that.

Their disbelief won't hinder GOD ALMIGHTY'S FULFILLMENT OF HIS WORD LITERALLY TO THE NTH DEGREE

in the slightest.

It is a puzzle and a mystery that EVIDENTLY even in the Millenium, there will be some sort of sacrifice even after Christ's sacrifice on The Cross has long been complete and full and fully efficacious.

However, it's God's Gig. I'm not about to

argue

with ALMIGHTY GOD.

I'll leave that to the REPLACEMENTARIANS.

157 posted on 07/27/2009 5:38:15 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54; Marysecretary; XeniaSt; Blogger; Cvengr; jeremiah; marbren; prophetic; Rushmore Rocks; ...

This doc reminds me of the Gospels . . . where we read repeatedly

of the theologically educated elite of the day relentlessly postulating conundrums to Jesus in efforts to trap Him and render He and His truths

down several notches from

THEIR

PRESUMED, ASSUMED, ARROGANT

LOFTINESS.

It NEVER worked.

And though their scheming landed Him on The Cross—there, in a sense, He was loftier than ever.

And they were still far toooooooooo pridefully clueless to see AND UNDERSTAND.

I wonder what it is about educated-beyond-their-capacities haughty theological pontificators that renders them so blind.


158 posted on 07/27/2009 5:46:41 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr; raynearhood; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
Hal Lindsey, the consummate scammer within dispensaitonal circles, "completed the four year Master of Theology course at Dallas Theological Seminary with a major in New Testament Greek and a minor in Hebrew." ( Rapture Ready Who’s Who in Prophecy)
159 posted on 07/27/2009 5:48:35 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: topcat54

I was pleased to meet Hal one day when my boss at the Baptist counseling center invited me to a small church staff luncheon or some such. I think about 8-12 of us were there.

He was a lot more humble than I’d expected him to be.

He was Considerably more humble than a LOT of the REPLACEMENTARIANS et al I’ve run across.

He could share my fox-hole any day.

I wouldn’t want to have to trust a lot of REPLACEMENTARIANS to manage to make it in out of the rain.


160 posted on 07/27/2009 5:53:54 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix; raynearhood; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
He's a scam artist.
"To the skeptic who says that Christ is not comingsoon [sic], I would ask him to put the book of Revelationin [sic]one hand, and the daily newspaper in the other,and then sincerely ask God to show him where weare [sic]on His prophetic time-clock." -Hal Lindsey, "There's a New World Coming" ( Rapture Ready Who’s Who in Prophecy)
The only folks who would comes to Hal’s conclusion are theological illiterates who have already been duped by the false hermeneutics of dispensationalism.
161 posted on 07/27/2009 6:11:40 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: topcat54

Thanks for bumping the thread.

And displays of ignorant rubber Bible’d hideousness is always a good contrast to the truths I post on such threads.

Much appreciated.


162 posted on 07/27/2009 6:24:59 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

Any opportunity to present solid biblical truth in the midst of outright dispensational nonsense (handwaving, obfuscation, and name-calling) is always a welcome thing.

It gives folks the chance to see the difference between the two systems; one built soldily on the Bible alone, and the house-of-cards built on the recent traditions of men like Darby and Scofield, Hal Lindsey and Edgar Whisenant.


163 posted on 07/27/2009 6:30:58 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Quix; topcat54
Both the pre-trib and post-trib camps have a lot of splaining to do in order to harmonize Matthew 24 & 25. In my view, both camps have serious Scriptural hurdles to overcome in those two chapters, not to mention other places in Scripture.

Eschatology is an exciting topic, but it is not one that should cause division in the Body of Christ. We can all agree to disagree, because I'm sure when the end comes we will all be surprised how it unfolds.

JM
164 posted on 07/27/2009 6:32:24 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: topcat54; Lee N. Field
Hal Lindsey, the consummate scammer within dispensaitonal circles
Hal Lindsey is currently married to his fourth wife, having divorced his previous three. On the back cover of the sixth printing of his 1974 book, There's a New World Coming, is a picture of Lindsey with his second wife, Jan. (Jan is the mother of Hal's three grown daughters.) He also dedicates the book to "my best pal, my wife Jan ..." However, "best pal" Jan is gone from the back cover of the book's 1984 "updated" edition, as is the dedication to her. A later Lindsey' book, Planet Earth--2000 A.D. (18 million in circulation as of 1/95), carries a picture of Hal and his third wife, Kim, who is approximately 25 years his junior. (Kim is the sister of author Johanna Michaelsen, and the sister-in-law of Tetelestai Center's Associate Pastor, Randy Michaelsen.) After dumping Kim, Hal is now married to wife #4, JoLyn, a member of Tetelestai and in a Bible class taught by Lindsey when she was evidently "discovered" by Hal.
-- excerpt from an article on Lindsey found at Biblical Discernment Ministries
See also Hal Lindsey's There's A New Wife Coming
165 posted on 07/27/2009 6:54:01 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("I always longed for repose and quiet" - John Calvin)
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To: JohnnyM; Quix; raynearhood; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
Eschatology is an exciting topic, but it is not one that should cause division in the Body of Christ. We can all agree to disagree, because I'm sure when the end comes we will all be surprised how it unfolds.

Especially those looking for a "second chance" for certain people based on ethnicity.

166 posted on 07/27/2009 7:00:22 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Quix

BTTT


167 posted on 07/27/2009 7:14:04 AM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: Quix; raynearhood; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
The OP begins by mentioning Matthew 24:13 and quoting 1 Thess. 5:2-6 where the phrase “a thief in the night” is used to describe Christ’s return, aka “the day of the Lord”.
1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. (1 Thess. 5)

The irony here is that the dispensational premil system is undermined by a careful comparison of Scripture with Scripture, i.e., 1 Thess 5: and:

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, F10 not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2 Peter 3)
According the Peter, the “day of the Lord” introduces the new heavens and new earth. This is the day that Christ returns to judge the world. There is no time period between 1 Thess. 5 and 2 Peter 3. The language is unambiguous. They are the same event.

The validity of the other (nonsensical) 50 points is completely undermined by a careful examination of the opening assertion and demonstration of how it fails to be true from the Bible alone.

168 posted on 07/27/2009 7:17:54 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Alex Murphy; Lee N. Field
Hal Lindsey is currently married to his fourth wife, having divorced his previous three.
Hal Lindsey is a giant in the world of Bible Prophecy. During the early eighties, the New York Times hailed Hal Lindsey with the honorable title " The Jeremiah of Today ". ( Rapture Ready Who’s Who in Prophecy)

What an insult. I don’t think the career of Jeremiah of the Bible was characterized by multiple wives and ungoldly divorces.

169 posted on 07/27/2009 7:23:09 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: topcat54; Cvengr; raynearhood; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
Even dispensationalists recognize the heresy of arguing for the reinstitution of Levitical animal sacrifices.

I wouldn't count on it.

One of the things that got me looking into it, 4 or 5 years ago, was hearing some pretty outrageous things coming from a prophecy pundit. What I heard didn't necessarily have to do with "bible prophecy", but was perfectly consistent with dispensationalism's axiomatic radical church/Israel distinction.

170 posted on 07/27/2009 7:23:15 AM PDT by Lee N. Field ("Dispensationalists say the darndest things!")
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To: Lee N. Field; Cvengr; raynearhood; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
One of the things that got me looking into it, 4 or 5 years ago, was hearing some pretty outrageous things coming from a prophecy pundit. What I heard didn't necessarily have to do with "bible prophecy", but was perfectly consistent with dispensationalism's axiomatic radical church/Israel distinction.

Many ministries that have dispensationalism as a characteristic are plagued by additional heretical constructs. E.g., John Hagee’s dual covenantalism, TD Jakes’ oneness/neo-arianism.

171 posted on 07/27/2009 7:34:07 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: topcat54

NONSENSE.

RUBBER BIBLED DENIAL OF GOD’S SCRPTURAL TRUTHS is one of the WORST foundations for anything remotely good.

BTW . . . re “name calling,” who have I called psychotic even indirectly, much less directly? Last I noticed, the REPLACEMENTARIAN accusation is still there.


172 posted on 07/27/2009 7:53:00 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: JohnnyM

Certainly the full unfolding will leave all of us surprised, imho.

I don’t think anyone has THE RAPTURE all figured out.

It still appears to me that the Pre-Trib folks have the BETTER Scriptural argument.


173 posted on 07/27/2009 7:54:18 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Alex Murphy

I’m sure Father God is quite impressed with all the Hal rock throwing.

Perhaps He’s building a gilded rock wall around some Heavenly estates with the spent rocks.

/sar


174 posted on 07/27/2009 7:55:42 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54

NONSENSE.

NO SUCH THING.

THE PROMISES OF ALMIGHTY GOD TO THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB ARE BUILT

ON GOD ALMIGHTY’S WORD, HIS EVERLASTING PROMISES TO HIS BUDDY ABRAHAM.

That’s more than sufficient foundation.

Idiotic brazen distortions of Biblical fact by the Rubber Bible Brigade are simply utter nonsense.


175 posted on 07/27/2009 7:57:19 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: antisocial

Thanks.

God’s best to you and yours.


176 posted on 07/27/2009 7:57:44 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54

Thanks for bumping the thread.

The RUBBER BIBLE GROPING is laughable but at least it bumps the thread.


177 posted on 07/27/2009 7:58:29 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54

Looks like another fireside sale was found on

‘holy rocks’ for
‘sanctified rock throwing!’

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

IMPRESSIVE!

/s


178 posted on 07/27/2009 7:59:57 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Lee N. Field

Thanks for bumping the thread.

There’s ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

radical about

TRUSTING GOD’S UNRUBBERIZED WORD to be fulfilled to the letter.

God typically honors such trust and disciplines lack of such trust.


179 posted on 07/27/2009 8:01:11 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54

Thanks for the thread bump.

And for a new twist to the RUBBER BIBLE GROPING.


180 posted on 07/27/2009 8:01:55 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
I do believe Scripture testifies to a rapture (Matt 25, 1Thess, the Church at Philadelphia), but the more I study eschatology the more I realize that the all or nothing view of rapture is misguided.

For example, most pre-tribbers use Matt 24 & 25 as evidence for their claim. The thief in the night, watch and be ready, etc all point to an event that is imminent and is sudden and which does not point to the end of the age at His second coming. But what the pre-tribbers fail to see in the parable of the slaves, virgins, and talents is that not all believers are taken. In these parables, the standing of the actors are not in questions. They are all virgins, they are all slaves with the Lord as their bridegroom/master. In other words, they are all believers in Christ. The distinction in the parables is based on their actions. Those that get rewarded are the ones who are watchful and ready for their masters return. Those who are not get placed with the hypocrites in outer darkness. That does not jive with the pre-trib viewpoint of all believers being raptured. Even the Church in Philadelphia goes against this view of rapture as well. There are 7 churches mentioned, all these churches are filled with believers, if they weren't then they wouldn't be called churches, yet only 1 of the seven is promised not to go through the tribulation. The implication is that the other ones will. I think the pre-tribbers gloss over these things to their detriment.

JM
181 posted on 07/27/2009 8:11:09 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: JohnnyM

Certainly good points.

Months ago, I posted a bloke’s stuff about there being several raptures.

He certainly extrapolated some things but I’ve often wondered if there might be a few ‘harvests.’

He even postulated that the first one might involve the most READY and sold out to God being ‘raptured’ then returned quickly in Heavenly bodies for 40 days of ministry before going to Heaven for the duration of the Great Tribulation.

I just want to be READY AND EAGER for the FIRST ELEVATOR UP whenever that is.


182 posted on 07/27/2009 8:16:28 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
"I just want to be READY AND EAGER for the FIRST ELEVATOR UP whenever that is."

Amen to that. If we get one thing out of this dicussion, it is that we should be ready.

JM
183 posted on 07/27/2009 8:20:19 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: topcat54; Quix

“I’ve never debated anyone into the Kingdom of God, nor do I believe that Christians arguing with one another impresses the non-believer looking for the light of Christ in us.”

My Pastor
April 2009


184 posted on 07/27/2009 8:30:39 AM PDT by Grunthor (If Romney is the only GOP close to "O" in the polls come the primaries, who do you vote for?)
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To: Quix
“NONSENSE”
“RUBBER BIBLED DENIAL”
“Rubber Bible Brigade”
“utter nonsense”
“RUBBER BIBLE GROPING”
Et cetera ad nauseum

“I’m a full fledged Dispy!”

Nuff said.


185 posted on 07/27/2009 8:31:36 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: topcat54; JohnnyM; raynearhood; Lee N. Field; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg
Especially those looking for a "second chance" for certain people based on ethnicity.

Out of the four basic eschatological views in Christendom, the most consistent element that differentiates Dispensational Pre-Trib Premillennialism from all other eschatological systems is that in Dispensational Pre-trib Premillennialism, God has a different redemptive plan for racial Jews - one that is unique, seperate, and even superior to any other redemptive plan offered to any other racial group (Greeks, Gentiles, etc) in history. This is known as "dual covenant theology", wherein Jewish people don't need to bow to Jesus Christ in order to be saved. They just need to keep the Old Testament laws better! Some Dispensational Pre-trib Premillennialists (Hal Lindsey for one) have even gone so far as to claim that fellow Christians are anti-semites for holding other eschatological views that include a single redemptive plan for all of mankind throughout history.

Dispensational Pre-Trib Premillennialism discounts the Body of Christ - His Church - as being merely a "great parenthesis" that interrupts God's prophetic timetable for man.

186 posted on 07/27/2009 8:34:38 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("I always longed for repose and quiet" - John Calvin)
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To: Grunthor; Quix
“I’ve never debated anyone into the Kingdom of God, nor do I believe that Christians arguing with one another impresses the non-believer looking for the light of Christ in us.”

My Pastor
April 2009

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you F3 compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

The apostle Paul
Circa AD50


187 posted on 07/27/2009 8:36:33 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: JohnnyM; Quix
But what the pre-tribbers fail to see in the parable of the slaves, virgins, and talents is that not all believers are taken. In these parables, the standing of the actors are not in questions. They are all virgins, they are all slaves with the Lord as their bridegroom/master. In other words, they are all believers in Christ.

I don't think that intepretation is pandemic among all pretribs. There are many who indicate that the virgin parable represents the end of the tribulation and those who become believers during that period. MT 24-25 the question focuses upon the establishment of the Kingdom, and in parallel, to Israel - not the church specifically.

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/AnInterpretationofMatthew24_25_36.html

Jesus' first advent was prophesied in the OT. Those who would dismiss the prophetic words of His second coming by spiritualizing them or associating them with events surrounding AD 70 do a disservice to scripture. Jesus' life was closely tied to prophecy - why wouldn 't His second coming be the same.

188 posted on 07/27/2009 8:40:57 AM PDT by Godzilla
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To: JohnnyM; Quix
Amen to that. If we get one thing out of this dicussion, it is that we should be ready.

Ah, but some folks speak from a superior position in their “readiness”. You see, you are not really “ready” unless you adopt their fanciful interpretations about current events and Jesus’ imminent return in the secret rapture of dispensationalism. You aren’t really “rapture ready” unless you get all weak-in-the-knees when someone mentions the latest events in secular Israel and the rest of the middle east. You aren’t really ready unless you have read and memorized all the Left Behind® novels.

Jesus told His disciples to always be ready, regardless of the century or millennia they find themselves in. They are not to look for signs of the Second Coming because there would not be any. The “sign” would be of that of lightening flashing across the sky. His Second Coming would be at a time His disciples least expected (Matt. 24:44).

No one who makes lists like “50 Reasons Why We Are Living In The End Times” or uses 1948 as a countdown date can be taken seriously with respect to the words of Jesus Himself.

189 posted on 07/27/2009 8:52:25 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Godzilla; JohnnyM; Quix
Jesus' first advent was prophesied in the OT. Those who would dismiss the prophetic words of His second coming by spiritualizing them or associating them with events surrounding AD 70 do a disservice to scripture. Jesus' life was closely tied to prophecy - why wouldn 't His second coming be the same.

No one is denying that Jesus' Second Coming is tied to prophecy. What non-dispensationalists deny is that futurist dispensationalism has found the correct interpretation of those prophecies. E.g., that Matthew 24 is related to the events of AD70 is admitted even by many dispensationalists who cannot, regardless of how hard they try, twist the plain words to mean something else.

Those who claim a system based on consistent literalism and then have to weasel their way out of many tough passages (such as the blood sacrifices for atonement of Ezekiel 40-48) are really the ones doing a disservice to the plain words of Scripture

190 posted on 07/27/2009 8:59:15 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Quix

Look forward to Part II Quix.

PLease add me to any ping list you may have for this.


191 posted on 07/27/2009 9:03:24 AM PDT by tang-soo (Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks - Read Daniel Chapter 9)
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To: Alex Murphy; topcat54; JohnnyM; raynearhood; Frumanchu; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
Q. What is heresy?

A. Heresy is any teaching that directly contradicts the clear and direct witness of the Scriptures on a point of salvific importance. -- Michael Horton

Out of the four basic eschatological views in Christendom, the most consistent element that differentiates Dispensational Pre-Trib Premillennialism from all other eschatological systems is that in Dispensational Pre-trib Premillennialism, God has a different redemptive plan for racial Jews - one that is unique, separate, and even superior to any other redemptive plan offered to any other racial group (Greeks, Gentiles, etc) in history.

192 posted on 07/27/2009 9:07:16 AM PDT by Lee N. Field ("Dispensationalists say the darndest things!")
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To: Godzilla

Jesus’ first advent was prophesied in the OT. Those who would dismiss the prophetic words of His second coming by spiritualizing them or associating them with events surrounding AD 70 do a disservice to scripture. Jesus’ life was closely tied to prophecy - why wouldn ‘t His second coming be the same.

= = =

INDEED.

VERY WELL PUT.

THX.


193 posted on 07/27/2009 9:11:16 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54; Quix
What non-dispensationalists deny is that futurist dispensationalism has found the correct interpretation of those prophecies. E.g., that Matthew 24 is related to the events of AD70 is admitted even by many dispensationalists who cannot, regardless of how hard they try, twist the plain words to mean something else

A little hard following your logic. Linkage of AD 70 to MT 24-25 is a stretch for nearly all dispensationalist, who hold a higher regard for early writing of the scriptures - e.g. the synoptics being written before AD 70. Many who advocate a post AD 70 authorship date do so because they discount prophecy a priori. Since there cannot be a supernatural knowledge of the future, any "prophecy" written must be fulfilled by that event - no matter if the facts of the event are something completely different than described by the prophecy. Thus their paradox - they must also deny OT prophecy in a similar manner and by doing so, must rationalize away the clear prophecies regarding Jesus.

Thus for the 'correct' interpretation to come about, other predispositions must come into play. Some pretribs have incorrectly, IMHO, linked MT 24-25 to the rapture by failing to observe the whole context of the passage. However, the passage cannot find fulfillment in AD 70's destruction of Israel.

194 posted on 07/27/2009 9:11:45 AM PDT by Godzilla
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To: tang-soo

THANKS.

I posted all the parts in the first post. The title had to match the first URL which was just to part 1.

However, I pasted all the parts right after part 1. Part 5 is at the end of that chunk.

Thanks for your kind words.


195 posted on 07/27/2009 9:13:02 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Godzilla

A little hard following your logic. Linkage of AD 70 to MT 24-25 is a stretch for nearly all dispensationalist, who hold a higher regard for early writing of the scriptures - e.g. the synoptics being written before AD 70. Many who advocate a post AD 70 authorship date do so because they discount prophecy a priori. Since there cannot be a supernatural knowledge of the future, any “prophecy” written must be fulfilled by that event - no matter if the facts of the event are something completely different than described by the prophecy. Thus their paradox - they must also deny OT prophecy in a similar manner and by doing so, must rationalize away the clear prophecies regarding Jesus.

= = =

INDEED!

The REPLACEMENTARIANS are understandably loathe to be wedded to the so called ‘higher criticism’ roots of their heresies. I guess a rubber band from their Rubber Bibles just slings them quickly by that hollow foundation of their perspective.


196 posted on 07/27/2009 9:19:40 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

marker...


197 posted on 07/27/2009 9:38:34 AM PDT by JDoutrider
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To: JDoutrider

Thx for the bump.


198 posted on 07/27/2009 9:40:58 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54

There is no hopeless dilemma.

The Word of God is Truth.

Indeed there will be animal sacrifices during the Millennium, during the Millennial reign of Christ on Earth.

Instead of reading into Scripture the errors of theologic systems, it might be more fruitful to let God sanctify the believer who places himself in humility to God and let Him guide our understanding.

BTW, the word atonement was coined in Old English from the words “at - one - ment” signifying the removal of a separation and implying fellowship.

The Hebrew from the Torah speaks of KPR or KOPHAR, (YOM KIPPUR) which is now understood to have a better translation as “cleansing” rather than “covering”. If I recall correctly the term “covering” was the state of translation circa 1916, but circa 1950s, the term was better understood as “cleansing”.

Considering His Word will be written on their hearts and minds in the Millennium, and will occur after the Abomination of Desolation, it isn’t surprising that a cleansing is still required in that relationship.

This does not mean the spiritual sacrifice more precious than the blood of bulls and goats isn’t still recognized in heaven, but a sacrificial system does appear in the Millennium.


199 posted on 07/27/2009 10:22:59 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Lee N. Field
in Dispensational Pre-trib Premillennialism, God has a different redemptive plan for racial Jews

False, not in the Church Age.

200 posted on 07/27/2009 10:25:31 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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