Posted on 08/17/2009 9:10:31 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
Hmmmmm.... Paul believed it...
1Cr 15:15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.
2 Timothy 3:16 states “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” that sounds a little more than words written on a page it seems like God spoke to the prophets and they wrote down what he said.
And there can be no translation? so iguess if you don’t understand latin, greek or hebrew you might as well give up for the words will have no meaning to you? That is a really lame comment. Translations are done all the time.
>>no
I mentioned the doctrine.
You personalized it.<<
Here is my original quote
“Mighty self righteous of you to interpret the mind of someone.
How it looks to you is not what is in a person’s heart.”
Where is the “me” or “I” in that?
You are attributing motives to me. That is against the rules.
Umm yes she is? Sorry to ruin your day but accept the fact that she was no more special than you or I.
Not their earthly bodies.
Do you believe in eternal life?
They are not raised bodily (duh!), but they have eternal life. They are not dead.
Impossible.
...but accept the fact that she was no more special than you or I.
Not a fact, just your own personal interpretation of Scripture.
The book itself holds no real concern for me however the words on the page are God’s instructions for me for Salvation and the way to live my life and grow in my knowledge of God. The church I go to the pulpit is off to the side as many are.
>>And there can be no translation?<<
I never said that. It doesn’t bother me at all that non-Catholics worship a book. It has nothing to do with me.
Bibliolators take their chances with Christ.
Mat 18:18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
The lesson here is authority for believers and how to treat each other. Read the passages before and get back to me.
Thank you Kolo! Which actually brings up another point.
The author has a curious position that the fact of the Assumption is spurious, based on the Decretum Gelasianum (ca. 490s) which condemned the Transitus Mariae as heretical. I looked it up (see the link) and indeed, no question about it, the Transitus Mariae fell under the label of books that are not received by Catholics and should be avoided under anathema.
YET...the liturgical feast of the Assumption is at least this old. The Life of St. Theodosius states that the Church of Jerusalem celebrated a feast of the Assumption before A.D. 500. (I'll try to find this primary source as well)
Analog, I think you said you're an Anglican, so you understand feast days. Now how is it that we have a condemnation of the Transitus Mariae at around the same exact time that the Church in Jerusalem is celebrating its feast day?
Well, the easiest explanation I can think of is that the BOOK was condemned but the IDEA was not. One could argue I suppose that, well, maybe the Jerusalem Church was outside of the mainstream here, and they were sorta being corrected by the Gelasian Decretals. But I don't think that flies, because as Kolokotronis said, the feast wasn't squelched but kept going. It was present in the Greek liturgy by the next century, and it appears in the Roman "Gelasian Sacramentary" (!), the dating of which is problematic.
Evidently, the condemnation of the book had no effect on the spread of the feast or of the theology of the idea. Which, again, indicates to me that we are dealing here with a tradition of the Church which was *not* heretical, but which was orthodox.
>>The book itself holds no real concern for me<<
The statues in my parish aren’t for me either. They are off to the side too.
In fact, some Parishes don’t even have any.
So, how can someone say that a person is worshiping Mary by what he does in front of a statue then say that another is not worshiping a book by the actions around it?
Seems silly to attribute motive all the way around.
Such is your own personal interpretation of Scripture and you are welcome to it.
>>The lesson here is authority for believers and how to treat each other. Read the passages before and get back to me. <<
That’s your own personal interpretation of that passage.
...that’s the best you can do?
Remember, you approached me, not the other way around.
So, you can return when you came and just ignore me if you like.
How’s that for attributing/suggesting a motive!?!
Best wishes
XD
At least we don’t say that they will never make it to heaven (are not saved).
Example sentence: "I pray thee, learn the difference between the two".
Moving on to your second bit about praying to the dead: as Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth.
This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."
If the saints are with God, and are offering prayers to God, then they are active participants in the economy of grace. They can be aware of our petitions and they can present them to God - in other words they can intercede for us.
Asking people on Earth to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship - still less does asking the Saints or his Blessed Mother for help.
I sincerely hope this is helpful.
I have no problem if your stance is that the Catholic stance is that the only path to God is through Jesus Christ. This is the only path to salvation is the redemptive power of Jesus Christ.
I just don’t nor will I ever undertsand Mary’s role as Jesus never even made a big deal about her. SO I am going to bow out and hope that everyone at least finds their salvation through the proper source and that is the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ.
Such pronouncements are not for me.
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