Skip to comments.America Magazine goes after Patrick Madrid for his response to Sr. Maureen Fiedler's post on Kennedy
Posted on 08/27/2009 10:41:06 AM PDT by NYer
Well, I feel as if I've finally "arrived."
True, over the years my name has been mentioned disparagingly a few times in the pages of America, but what appeared in its online edition today has reached a whole new level of invective (even by America's standards of invective).
I responded yesterday to Sr. Maureen Fiedler's obit piece on Senator Ted Kennedy in NCR ("He Made Me Proud to Be Catholic"), and my comments obviously hit a raw nerve among that community of disciples over at America, as evidenced by my being roundly chastised by one of their writers today.
Honestly, I don't think my remarks were in any way untoward, but clearly that writer disagrees. In just six irrate paragraphs, he manages to brand me me a "boor," a "loudmouth," "ignorant of history," "callous," "inhumane," "indecent," and "hateful" — all the while insinuating that my comments on this issue (and those of other pro-life people) are simply a "rant."
Kettle, meet Pot. Pot, meet Kettle.
Here is the exchange:
From National Catholic Reporter ...
I dont often cry when a public figure dies. This morning, I cried when I heard the news that Senator Ted Kennedy had passed away.
I "grew up" with the Kennedy Clan. I remember how John Kennedy broke the "Catholic barrier" with his election in 1960. I remember Robert Kennedys prophetic words as he ran for President in 1968 his fearless embrace of the least of these and his opposition to the War in Vietnam. And I remember the wrenching agony of the two Kennedy assassinations.
But today feels a bit like the end of an era. Ted Kennedy, like his brothers, was a champion of civil rights, womens rights, and the welfare of the least of these. He strongly and eloquently opposed the war in Iraq. Because his life (and the lives of others in his family) embraced the great Catholic social justice tradition, they have made me proud to be a Catholic.
So I guess now the torch has been passed to us.
And the response from America Magazine:
Someone named Patrick Madrid, who runs a blog and is involved with something called the Envoy Institute at Belmont Abbey in North Carolina, decided to attack my colleague at NCR Sister Maureen Fiedler for her post remembering the late Senator. "Maureen, with all due respect," he begins, words that reek of condescension. He writes: "Whatever his positive qualities may have been, and no doubt he had some, the tragic reality is that Senator Kennedy's long political career was squandered by his vociferous, relentless promotion of abortion. And that, sadly, will be his enduring legacy. I agree with you that tears are appropriate upon hearing the news of this man's death, but not for the reasons you are crying them." I have my moments of hubris but it has never occurred to me to tell another soul why and why not to cry, still less in a blog post.
The Boors Who Demean Ted Kennedy
Mr. Kennedy was divorced in 1982 and didn't receive a declaration of nullity from the Church until the early or mid-1990s.
In that the Church grants tens of thousands of declarations of nullity every single year, and usually in much less than a decade or so, and usually at a cost of well under a thousand dollars, if Mr. Kennedy bribed anyone for his annulment, he got ripped off.
I other words she's a Leftist/Liberal muddle-brained egg head.
When will the sainthodd process begin?
We weren't talking about “sainthood process,” we were talking about your patently false assertion that Mr. Kennedy bribed the Church for a declaration of nullity.
***Sister Maureen Fiedler, Sister of Loretto, Ph.D is an American activist and radio host. She is a progressive, sometimes controversial activist within the Roman Catholic Church. She has a long history working with interfaith coalitions on a variety of issues including: social justice, peace, anti-racism work, gender equality, human rights and female ordination to the Catholic Church. She holds a Ph.D in Government from Georgetown University.***
The Inquisition is coming. The theologically leprous will be outcast. Unclean. The good Sister is representative of those who have emptied our seminaries and our monasteries and our nunneries.
I don’t know what green primeval ooze is dripped from her cranium out her ears, but it appears to have supplanted the Faith, edged out Scripture and removed the Sacred Tradition from whatever remains of her moral fiber. Good bye and good riddance. Those who remove themselves from the Faith need to be recognized by the Church.
Boorishness? I did not note any boorishness on the part of Mr. Madrid. He states facts about Kennedy’s zealousness in promoting abortion of the truly weak and defenseless. How in heaven’s name Sr. Maureen could say that Kennedy makes her proud to be a Catholic is beyond me unless ideology in her eyes trumps the Catholic Faith. Kennedy excelled in ignoring that Faith. Besides his pro-abortion stance and his spearheading statism which I don’t think goes with the Catholic principle of subsidiarity, his personal example will forever by tarnished by Chappaquidick and other behavior which need not be mentioned here.Kennedy remains a “Lion” for those who are liberals, because of his fierce partisanship in that cause. That certainly does not qualify him for making Catholics proud given liberalism’s current agenda.
May God have mercy on his soul...but for America and American catholics it would have been better if he died 70 years ago.
How did a rich million-dollar donor get an annulment having a wife of many years and children. I guess that's normal church process.
Defend it all you want. I've seen your kind before.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
I think I can explain it. Years and years ago, I saw a documentary about the campaigns and presidencies of Roosevelt, Taft and Wilson. What caught my attention was the discussion of the rise of social welfare in the country. In short, the argument was made to the public that "if church charity can help more people than personal charity, then a national charity (welfare) should be even more effective at eradicating poverty and hunger because the Federal government's tax coffers are larger than any church collection plate".
FWIW, I have never very few people in my lifetime who do not believe this argument at some level. They naively view our government as neutral and therefore not hostile to Christianity. They believe that, as long as the government is trying to achieve the same end (helping the poor/hungry), Christians should not be criticizing the government for it's welfare programs (i.e. should consider their taxes paid equal to money dropped into the church collection plate).
“How did a rich million-dollar donor get an annulment having a wife of many years and children. I guess that's normal church process.”
He got it, it seems, the way 50,000 other couples get it each year. He made his application to the marriage tribunal and waited.
For over a decade.
Most annulment processes take a few years. Mr. Kennedy's took quite a bit longer. If Mr. Kennedy paid any extra for his, he got taken.
“Defend it all you want.”
Who is defending it? I'm merely stating the facts.
Many Catholic couples obtain declarations of nullity of their putative marriages, marriages sometimes of short length, marriages sometimes of 20, 30 years or more, with multiple children.
It costs typically (not always) under a thousand dollars. In my own archdiocese, I believe the standard fee is about $400.
What Mr. Kennedy obtained isn't unusually difficult nor terribly expensive to obtain. There are folks who criticize the Church for making annulments generally too easy to obtain. For anyone. Rich or poor. Well-connected or not. But that's the opposite argument from what is [falsely] being made here.
In that Mr. Kennedy's result took about three or four times longer than most, I doubt that he “bribed” anyone for it.
Sorry your so sensitive. Read the mods comment. I’m out.
“Sorry your so sensitive.”
Not at all. It's merely a desire to keep the facts straight. Mr. Kennedy is blameworthy for many things. “Bribing” the Church for an annulment is very likely not one thing for which he is blameworthy. Even an evil man has a right to what little good reputation he may have.
You repeated a falsehood commonly heard - that Mr. Kennedy "bribed" the Church with his huge donations to obtain a declaration of nullity. But the facts are clear - over 50,000 such declarations are issued in the United States every year, in a process that usually takes a few years, at a cost nearly always under a thousand dollars.
If he "bribed" anyone, he got ripped off.
Countering falsehoods with the facts is hardly the stuff of being "so sensitive."
“Read the mods comment.”
I did read the Religion Moderator's comments. In that I didn't make it personal, and didn't direct any of my comments at any poster, but merely at the falsehoods that were posted, I don't believe that his/her comments were directed at my posts herein. The Religion Moderator, I'm sure, will correct my assertion if it is in error.
You’ve got that right!
A an irredeemable alcoholic - supported by incontrovertable facts.
A traitor - supported by recently released records of his communications with KGB operatives in his efforts to undermine Reagan.
A murderer - How many millions of the unborn? How many? And then theres Mary Jo.
A socialist - by his own words: The reason why socialsim hasnt worked in the last 6000 years is because I wasnt in charge of it.
And finalyy, on the basis of the preceding items - a malignant narcissist.
Nice legacy, Ted.
And, most concerning for all of us that have to deal with it...a role model of Congressional Activism...
FWIW...it appears as though he never APPLIED for an annulment until 1995.....
“In 1995, Kerry applied for an annulment, by which the Church declares that a marriage never existed. The annulment was apparently granted”
WHOOP!Wrong Mass Senator!! I apologize...!!!
WHOOP!Wrong Mass Senator!! I apologize...!!!
Agree completely! Kennedy is entitled to a Catholic funeral ... period. Obama's interests in delivering a eulogy are strictly political. We all know Ted Kennedy's 100% NARAL rating, his stance on gay marriage and support for a national health care program that would deny others his age, the same benefits to which he was entitled during his illness. It is an outrageous offense to allow a political eulogy in a Catholic Church.
I've seen marriages of longer years and more children be annulled on grounds that no one knew about until it was all over. Things like coercion, trickery, mental abuse, etc. It could very well be that there were legit grounds. He didn't ask for it until years after the marriage ended. There are some things that are still private in this world and what goes on inside a marriage is one of them. This is one instance where I give him the benefit of the doubt.
Nothing technical about it.
They better not give Communion to BHO.
***Kennedy is entitled to a Catholic funeral ... period.***
As are all Catholics, no matter how gravely in sin. Unless excommunicated, he does rate that.
***It is an outrageous offense to allow a political eulogy in a Catholic Church.***
Now that, I agree with.