How to testify

Lds Church News ^ | Sept. 19, 2009

[Colofornian]

SNIP

Sharing testimonies is an important part of the Latter-day Saint experience. We bear testimonies in many settings — in the home with family and among friends and associates or in missionary experiences. In Church, one Sunday is set aside every month for the bearing of testimonies during sacrament meetings.

SNIP

In his address at the October 2004 general conference, Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve...said that his experience throughout the Church leads him to worry that too many members' testimonies linger on "I am thankful," and "I love," and too few are able to say with humble but sincere clarity, "I know." As a result, he noted, meetings sometimes lack the testimony-rich, spiritual underpinnings that stir the soul and have meaningful, positive impact on the lives of all those who hear them.

He...counseled, "We need to replace stories, travelogues and lectures with pure testimonies. Those who are entrusted to speak and teach in our meetings need to do so with doctrinal power that will be both heard and felt, lifting the spirits and edifying our people."

SNIP

As we listen to general conference this October, we will hear many bear pure testimony. Numerous times over the years, we have heard President Thomas S. Monson, first as an apostle and now as president of the Church, bear such testimony. May we, as Primary children sing, be inclined to "follow the prophet" in our endeavor to nurture, strengthen and share our testimonies that we have a Heavenly Father who loves us, that Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was the prophet who was raised up to restore the fullness of the everlasting gospel...

[Godzilla]

Hey ya gotta admit we aren't just saying "everyone else can go to Hell", we are doing something about it, and trying to save as many as will let us.

You don't bother to read your own doctrine?
ALMA 34:33-35:". . . if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.”
Seems your doctrine is in conflict - you cannot baptise to 'save' someone where in Alma they are in the final state of the wicked

[Godzilla]

. . . The Temple ceremonies are absolutely published by the church, canonized too, . .

Oh, so you've now added to the mormon canon? Show us where in the Bible, bom, D&C or POGP these ceremonies are "absolutely published".

[colorcountry]

Now that I think of it, my story was stupid. We who are Christians have already reached our goal of Christ. But He has numbered our steps and set us a path. Our own human foibles and sin cause us to stumble upon those pebbles while we live out our eternal lives on Christ’s path. Someday (soon I hope) He will come and ultimately save us from our stumbling and groping, but we are already with Him.

[Godzilla]

Reminds me of the guy who stands outside the SLC temple in his temple clothing telling people that they should try to be “as good as or better than Jesus”.

Ah yes, the man in white, who claims to be better than Jesus.

[Godzilla]

Yeah, just one thing, he's not a Mormon, he's an anti Mormon... Just thought you'd want to know.

Classical tactic of personal destruction. Nick is a a sincere, believing latter-day saint. . . . . Nick has a steadfast testimony of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the only true church, of the Book of Mormon as the word of God, as Joseph Smith as a true prophet. He believes LDS doctrine, as he testifies,"100 percent".

But really, slandering another mormon just because he is embarrassing? My, how mormonism is so accepting.

[greyfoxx39]

It means that Joseph as the first prophet of this dispensation will testify that the gospel was being taught and those who did not accept it will be condemned by his testimony that they had it available.

In Non-non-mormon speak, Joseph Smith will be the one to "certify" the worthiness to enter....and THAT means in order to reach "exaltation" one MUST be made "worthy" by taking part in mormon temple ordinances.

• Confirmed a member in the LDS church
• Ordained to the priesthood (by a mormon who holds the "keys" given to Joseph Smith)
• Washed with water
• Blessed to have the washing sealed
• Anointed with oil
• Clothed in holy garments
• Given a "new" name
• Married for eternity
• Most important of all, take the Oath to obey the "Law of Consecration:
• You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

"those who did not accept it will be condemned by his testimony that they had it available."

[Godzilla]

how many "saviors" do you believe there are?

Who was Jesus' savior? How about heavenly father - did he have a savior too? For according to Lorenzo Snow, “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.” , we are sinners, that makes heavenly father a sinner too, and his father before him and so forth.

[greyfoxx39]

If you have THE truth, if you belong to THE true church of God, please share it w/ all of us & show definitively why your opinion of the truth is correct & other Christians are so wrong.

Time for this graphic apparently.

Proclaiming to be the TRUE church of God does NOT make it so, no matter how many mormons holler it at the top of their voices across history and across the world.

When mormons can produce truth that does not depend on the words of false prophet Joseph Smith, perhaps THAT will be the time for them to challenge Christians to produce THEIR truth.

[Reno232]

Question for you CC. Are those preachers that preach & practice homosexuality & fornication, thus leading their followers away from the doctrines of Christ & what the Lord described as abominations, saved, even though they are Christians & “believe”?

If you believe so, why did the Lord even institute the Commandments? Why did Paul go to the Corinthians & set them straight on the doctrines, something he thought was imperative, instead of just visiting them & saying, well, you've got the doctrines a little screwed up, but hey, you believe in the Lord, so don't worry about it.

And then of course, we could talk about the dozens of scriptures that talk about the principle of “faith without WORKS is dead”.

Anyway, hope all is well w/ you CC.

[Godzilla]

DU: Nope, no fit, the resurrection is a free gift, Atonement is something you have to keep the commandments for, it's all clear to me, because it's all been explained by the church and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.

The resurrection was a given at the start. It was going to happen regardless of Christ. What did change is what the resurrection will lead to:

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Readers will note here there are only two options listed here - smoking or non-smoking. The scriptures are clear - the unjust go to hell. The just to heaven - there is no mormononic segregation here. Do some word searches, the bible only speaks of two things - just/unjust, salvation/condemnation, etc.

Atonement is something you have to keep the commandments for, it's all clear to me, because it's all been explained by the church and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.

Mormon 'atonement' means you are a debtor to Jesus and are being forced to pay Him back for His sacrifice on the cross. They take the gift and make it something that has to be earned or payed back. Common sense check, if you are given a gift that you have to pay for - is that a gift? For mormons, grace is irrelevant, as are any biblical injunctions to the contrary.

DU, knowing your own sins that "make [you] unclean and unfit to dwell in God's presence" -- have you performed up to the standard of 2 Nephi 25:23? Have you done EVERYTHING you can do relationally, spiritually, emotionally, physically? Everything? Everything?

Have you done “all” you can do for salvation?
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”—James 2:10

Have you achieved perfection “in this mortal life”?
Men and women who live in mortality and who have heard the gospel here have had their day, their seventy years to put their lives in harmony, to perform the ordinances, to repent and to perfect their lives.” —The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 8, 314

Have you repeated a sin after asking for forgiveness?
“By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins —behold, he will confess them and forsake them.” —Doctrine and Covenants, Section 58:43

Have you cleared “all ungodliness” out of your life?
“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you,,/u> that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ.…” —Moroni 10:32
“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven.…Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” —Alma 11:37

In light of those last two verses DU, unless you are perfectly sinless this very moment with absolutely no ungodliness in your life, then even grace and salvation are denied to you.

[Reno232]

Actually GF, we depend on the words of the Lord. We study, ponder those studies, & then take it to the Lord for confirmation. It kills me how you folks are so set against going to the Lord to ask what He thinks. Rather, you seem content to rely on your own wisdom to try & figure this all out.

Seems like a rather flawed strategy to me. In the Bible, the Lord asked us to pray to him for answers. Sounds good to me. I did & received answers, just like He said He would. Why complicate it more than that? Is it because the “just believe” mantra is far easier? Are you seeking for truth, or ease? The Lord never said it would be easy, it would just be worth it.

We don’t believe in the words of Joseph Smith any more than we do the words of Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, Peter, Paul, etc. Do you believe the words of the prophets in the Bible? Is there any mention whatsoever in the Bible that the Lord never call a prophet again?

As usual lately, not enough time to continue. My best to you & yours GF.

[greyfoxx39]

It kills me how you folks are so set against going to the Lord to ask what He thinks.
In the Bible, the Lord asked us to pray to him for answers. Sounds good to me. I did & received answers, just like He said He would. Why complicate it more than that?

It seems that your question to ShadowAce was more "complicated" than that.

It kills me that you mormons seem to believe that you are the only ones who pray to the Lord for answers...(and AGAIN I note that a mormon can't seem to capitalize the pronoun when speaking of the Lord or Jesus).

Is it because mormons disdain the prayers to God that do not produce the results that fit the template that Joseph Smith is a true prophet and the BOM is the word of God?

[colorcountry]

Are those preachers that preach & practice homosexuality & fornication, thus leading their followers away from the doctrines of Christ & what the Lord described as abominations, saved, even though they are Christians & “believe”?

Yes, they are in error and need to be corrected. Are they saved? I do not know, but all indication tells me that they are not. Not all who profess to be in Christ are. God judges the heart. These supposed “leaders” are not. There are however, foolish people who will follow these “leaders” just as it says in scripture. We are warned to keep our eyes open to these men....

Jude 1:12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;Jude 1:13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever. (NASB ©1995)

and...

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

They remind me of certain others I know who profess to be “prophets” yet lead others into sins of adultery, polygamy, self-focused works and self-glorification. I think you know who I am talking about. ;)

And then of course, we could talk about the dozens of scriptures that talk about the principle of “faith without WORKS is dead”.

I read it as “FAITH without works is dead”. Faith comes first. With faith comes salvation. Then follows the good works that comes through Christ Jesus....just as scripture tells us.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”

[Godzilla]

So, so true comments and observations C

I realized that I had allowed you to make me angry, I was angry because I had begun to expect honesty from you and you disappointed me, I Gave you too much credit. So, I took a couple of days to respond. I still think that what you said is unconscionable, I think that this poster says a lot about the information you posted [DU]
Note, Godzilla, that DU's accusation of "I had begun to expect honesty from you and you disappointed me... is essentially a comment from the chip off the old false prophet:

I would be angry too if I had to defend the undefendable actions lies and deceptions of smith in regards to polygamy. He has, as a man, to answer to His God. BUT the problem, the heresy, the abomination, was Joseph used God’s name to justify all of this. mormonism embraces a man who did not hesitate to use God’s name to justify ANYTHING.

[greyfoxx39]

BUT the problem, the heresy, the abomination, was Joseph used God’s name to justify all of this. mormonism embraces (and glorifies) a man who did not hesitate to use God’s name to justify ANYTHING.

Bears repeating.

[Godzilla]

Why do you think Christianity can't all agree on some of the most basic fundamentals of the gospel such as faith vs. works, women in the priesthood, heaven & hell, & most recently gays in the priesthood, etc., etc.?

Lets rephrase this:

Why do you think Christianitymormonism can't all agree on some of the most basic fundamentals of the gospel such as polygamy . FLDS are better mormons than mainline mormons in this respect.

women in the priesthood. The Community of Christ now ordains women to the priesthood, whats the matter with mainline lds? Are they waiting for another lawsuit like in 1978?

most recently gays in the priesthood

Yes, what about gay mormons in the priesthood?

[Godzilla]

We don’t believe in the words of Joseph Smith any more than we do the words of Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, Peter, Paul, etc.

Interesting statement in view that just about every mormon 'testimony' I've read or heard defacto relies more upon the words of smith than any before him. You know, believe the bom to be true and smith is a prophet, etc. That is also counter to your own articles of faith that discounts the bible where convinent for you "as correctly translated".

Do you believe the words of the prophets in the Bible? Is there any mention whatsoever in the Bible that the Lord never call a prophet again?

Were the Lord to call a prophet again, that prophet would be subject to the same standards that have been applied to prophets in the bible. One can examine smith's life and clearly see that smith not only fails the biblical test for a prophet, but does so miserably.

[greyfoxx39]

Link doesn’t seem to work.

[Godzilla]

Link doesn’t seem to work.

Try this one.

[Colofornian]

Who was Jesus' savior? How about heavenly father - did he have a savior too? For according to Lorenzo Snow, “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.” , we are sinners, that makes heavenly father a sinner too, and his father before him and so forth.

Yes. What exactly did Joseph Smith mean when he implied Jesus laid down His life and died like God the Father did?

DU, do you believe Heavenly Father died? (Was the cover of one of those news magazines right in the 60s when they claimed God died? Were they just off time-wise?)

The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 346)

Now, DU, when I've asked you these kind of questions before, I usually get two types of apologetic veins in your responses:

(a) You usually claim, "Well, that's non Mormon canon."

Of course, in this instance that'd be hilarious. I mean, here we have Joseph Smith...
...going on public record,
....saying Do you believe? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it."
-- and if you try that vein on this Smith comment, well, that'd be funny to no end...
...Smith calling upon "...all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it" -- the spiritual weaponry of all weapons
-- and you come up to Smith with your pee-shooter and say to him, "Joseph, what you said is not canonized Scripture. We can simply ignore your ignoramus comments like this."

(b) DU, the second pattern you have is to always accuse people of taking comments out of context. [The Lds church takes comments all the time from its leaders & publishes them in books...of course, they NEVER take anything out of context...one-way aspersion-casting]

Well, in light of your interest in context...here's what Smith was essentially saying leading up to the above excerpt...actually very interesting comments for lurkers who don't know a lot about Mormonism:

King Follett sermon excerpts:

#1 Smith badgers other religious teachers because he thinks they're ignorant about God: But if all religious teachers were honest enough to renounce their pretensions to godliness when their ignorance of the knowledge of God is made manifest, they will all be as badly off as I am, at any rate; and you might as well take the lives of other false teachers as that of mine, if I am false. (p. 344)

#2 Smith defends the right to be a false prophet:
Every man has a natural, and, in our country, a constitutional right to be a false prophet, as well as a true prophet. (p. 344)

#3 Smith comes back & labels 99% of professing religious ministers as false teachers: If I show, verily, that I have the truth of God, and show that ninety-nine out of every hundred professing religious ministers are false teachers, having no authority, while they pretend to hold the keys of God's kingdom on earth, and was to kill them because they are false teachers, it would deluge the whole world with blood. I will prove that the world is wrong by showing what God is. (pp. 344-345)

#4 Smith creates out of thin air an understanding of God as a glorified man : I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning?...God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. (p. 345)

#5 Smith claims to know how God got bumped unto in the godhood category: ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and suppoed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. (P. 345)

#6 See above quote about Heavenly Father DYING (p. 346)

#7 Post-statement context - Smith advocates godhood for the Mormon masses: ...you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves. (p. 346)

#8 Smith tells people how to become 'gods' -- well, just go the same route as Heavenly Father did: ...be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me. (pp. 346-347)

Boy, ya gotta wonder about Joe Smith. It's almost like some supernatural personage whispered in his ear: "Hey, I'm not trifling with you or others any longer. You know very well that all people will be resurrected. So come join us. We want you to be 'able to dwell in everlasting burnings' with us."

Why, DU, you can almost hear the serpent's hiss in that statement.

Lurkers: Mormon History Lesson #666: The King Follett sermon was one of the most major changes in Mormon teaching -- a sermon Smith gave months before he died.

Smith claimed in the #8 excerpt above that God the Heavenly Father was once simply a "small degree" man who acted in a "small capacity". Boy, that certainly takes the cake. Think of all the daddy stories where a father tells his son or daughter, "When you grow up you can be President of the United States."

Then fast forward to the Mormon curricula for Family Home Evenings on Monday nights: "Son, when you grow up you can be a god. Now you're just a 'small degree' person with 'small capacity.' But 'you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves..."

I think of all the "Mormons are nice" comments you hear from folks; yet, these people don't quite fathom that Mormon parents take it quite seriously in converting their homes into cottage-industry god factories!

DU, it's so funny you've railed against the Trinity in this thread when on post #84 you said, "Jesus is my only god" when Mormonism teaches rampant polytheism!!! [The belief that many gods exist]

Why is this "funny?" Because you've reversed the divine order: God is a diversity of persons in one Divine Being; yet you appear to have One Divine Being ("Jesus is my only god") within a diversity of Divine Personages!!! [Heavenly Father; the Holy Ghost; Abraham -- D&C 132:29,37 claims Abraham is now "exalted" -- Mormon code for godhood-- and sits upon a throne in eternity, etc.]