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Avoiding Doomsday Hype and Hysteria
American Vision ^ | Nov 17, 2009 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 11/17/2009 6:46:44 AM PST by topcat54

The doomsday film 2012 had a mega-weekend at the box office. It took in $225 million over a period of five days, a combination of $65 million domestically and $160 million internationally Wednesday through Sunday (Nov. 11–16, 2009). In anticipation of the hype and hysteria of the Mayan Calendar end-of-the-world scenario, Christians had their books ready for an answer. Mark Hitchcock, pastor of Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma, is the author of 2012: The Bible and the End of the World. To his credit, Hitchcock offers a critical evaluation of the supposed Mayan prophecy. He even takes issue with the often used argument that the fig tree in Matthew 24:32 describes the reinstitution of the nation of Israel,[1] a point he made in his The Complete Book of Bible Prophecy.[2] In an interview for Christianity Today , Hitchcock said, “It’s the eschatology of the New Age. It’s basically a mystical, New Age belief system that I believe is spiritual deception. I want to take 2012 and bend the curve to God’s purposes, and use this as a springboard to tell people what the Bible says.”

Tim LaHaye, co-author of the multivolume, multimillion, multi-bestseller Left Behind series, offers a similar evaluation. He “believes the 2012 mania is distracting people from what the Bible predicts regarding the Rapture, Tribulation and Second Coming. ‘The date has been picked up by so many groups and cults that you have to conclude that someone or something inspired all these writers to come to essentially the same period—and that would be divination or spiritism,’ LaHaye says. ‘It’s probably satanic because there is nothing in the Bible about it. In fact, the Bible forbids us to even think about a day and an hour.’” But as we’ll see, it’s OK to think about what generation will see prophecy unfold.

I find all of this kind of funny. Now the dispensational prophetic sensationalists have to compete with the crazy New Agers and secular fright mongers. How many decades have we had to endure predictions of an imminent end from Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jerry Falwell, and many others? Falwell (1933–2007) stated on a December 27, 1992, television broadcast, “I do not believe there will be another millennium . . . or another century.” He was wrong. John F. Walvoord, described as “the world’s foremost interpreter of biblical prophecy . . . [expected] the Rapture to occur in his own lifetime.’”[3] It didn’t. Walvoord died in 2002 at the age of 92.These men claim to reject specific date setting, but they have no trouble and see nothing wrong with identifying the last generation. But even in this, their track record has been dismal, and yet they want respect from the non-believing world when they speak on Bible prophecy. For example, in his first edition of The Beginning of the End, which was published in 1972, Tim LaHaye wrote,

“Carefully putting all this together, we now recognize this strategic generation. It is the generation that ‘sees’ the four-part sign of verse 7 [in Matt. 24], or the people who saw the First World War. We must be careful here not to become dogmatic, but it would seem that these people are witnesses to the events, not necessarily participants in them. That would suggest they were at least old enough to understand the events of 1914–1918, not necessarily old enough to go to war.”[4]

A number of things changed in the 1991 revised edition. The “strategic generation” has been modified significantly. It’s no longer “the people who saw the First World War,” it’s now “the generation that ‘sees’ the events of 1948.”

“Carefully putting all this together, we now recognize this strategic generation. It is the generation that ‘sees’ the events of 1948. We must be careful here not to become dogmatic, but it would seem that these people are witnesses to the events, not necessarily participants in them. That would suggest they were at least old enough to understand the events of 1948.”[5]

The change from the years of the First World War to the specific date of 1948 as the starting point for the beginning of the generation that LaHaye claims will be alive when the “rapture” supposedly takes place was not made because of anything the Bible says on the subject. The generation that Jesus had in view in the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21) was the generation of His day. The phrase “this generation” always refers to the generation to whom Jesus was speaking. (For a study of this claim, see Last Days Madness and Is Jesus Coming Soon?) Time was running out for the First World War generation in 1991 when the revised edition of The Beginning of the End was published so LaHaye changed the date to 1948 even though the 40-year generation year of 1988 had passed.[6] LaHaye did not offer justification for the change, and he did not tell those who picked up the new edition that he had made the change.

You will notice in the Christianity Today article that those quoted decry date setting, but some don’t seem to have a problem identifying what generation will be the “last generation.” Here’s how LaHaye explains it: “I refuse to set any date limits, for the Lord didn’t, but he did specify a generation’s experiences and said that he would return during that period. We are in the twilight of that generation—that I firmly believe.”[7] He wrote this nearly 20 years ago! Moreover, Hal Lindsey and Chuck Smith, who made some very definite predictions about “last generation” (that it would end with a “rapture” no later than 1988), seem to get a pass by their fellow dispensationalists who claim to condemn date setting (also see here). Consider this interview that LaHaye had with Larry King on June 19, 2000:

LaHaye: But I think another reason people are interested in [Left Behind ] . . . is because it talks about the future. We’re living at a time when people look at the future and think of it as rather precarious. In fact, there’s a popular book out a couple of years ago on the death of history,[8] and it’s not from a Christian perspective. And so people recognize that something is about to happen. And the Bible has a fantastically optimistic view of the future.

King: But weren’t people saying this in 1890 and 1790? “It’s coming. Boy, the apocalypse is coming. The end is near.” They’ve always been saying it.

LaHaye: Well, we have more reason to believe that. Until Israel went back into the promised land, we couldn’t really claim that the end times were coming. But ever since 1948, in subsequent years, we’ve realized that things are getting set up. It’s stage setting for these momentous events.

King: Do you believe that some sort of end is coming?

LaHaye: Yes.

King: You believe that that will happen?

LaHaye: In fact, I believe there are a number of signs in Scripture that indicate it’s going to come pretty soon. We say maybe within our lifetime.

King is right. Making predictions has been the stock and trade of prophecy writers like LaHaye. Of course, they don’t pick a specific date, but they use words like “pretty soon” and “within our lifetime.” If they didn’t make these concessions, their books would not sell. LaHaye’s co-author Jerry Jenkins even wrote a book with the title Soon: The Beginning of the End (2003). Not to be outdone, LaHaye has teamed with Craig Parshall to publish Edge of Apocalypse, an apocalyptic novel “with political intrigue ripped from today’s headlines, the first book in a new series called The End.” Don’t these guys know when to stop? Like those who are attracted to the prophecies of Nostradamus and the Mayan calendar, there is a steady stream of gullible Christians who know nothing about the failed predictions of some of their favorite Christian prophecy writers but are willing to shell out money for prophecy books that in the ned fail to deliver.

New Testament scholar Ben Witherington writes, “The Mayans no more knew when the end would come than anyone else does. It’s time for theological weather forecasting to be given up entirely. Even TV weathermen predicting ordinary events are more accurate.” And this includes the “we know the generation” prophecy writers like LaHaye, Jenkins, Hitchcock, and Parshall.

Endnotes:

[1] Tim LaHaye and many popular prophecy writers see Matthew 24:32 as the key NT prophetic passage: “when a fig tree is used symbolically in Scripture, it usually refers to the nation Israel. If that is a valid assumption (and we believe it is), then when Israel officially became a nation in 1948, that was the ‘sign’ of Matthew 24:1-8, the beginning ‘birth pangs’—it meant that the ‘end of the age’ is ‘near.’” (Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, Are We Living in the End Times? Current Events Foretold in Scripture . . . And What They Mean [Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1999], 57). The editors of LaHaye’s own Prophecy Study Bible (2000) disagree: “the fig tree is not symbolic of the nation of Israel” (1040).
[2] Mark Hitchcock, The Complete Book of Bible Prophecy (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1999), 158. Hitchcock follows the lead of John F. Walvoord: The fig tree representing Israel "is not so used in the Bible. . . . Accordingly, while this interpretation is held by many, there is no clear scriptural warrant. A better interpretation is that Christ was using a natural illustration.” (John F. Walvoord, Matthew: Thy Kingdom Come [Chicago, IL: Moody, (1974) 1980], 191–192).
[3] Quoted in Kenneth L. Woodward, “The Final Days are Here Again,” Newsweek (March 18, 1991), 55.
[4] Tim LaHaye, The Beginning of the End (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1972), 165, 168. Emphasis added.
[5] Tim LaHaye, The Beginning of the End, rev. ed. (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1991), 193. Emphasis added.
[6] Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1970), 53–54.
[7] LaHaye, The Beginning of the End, rev. ed., 194.
[8] Francis Fukuyama, The End of History and the Last Man (New York: The Free Press, 1992).


Permission to reprint granted by American Vision, P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.


TOPICS: Current Events; Theology
KEYWORDS: 2012; doomsday; echatology; hype
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: wmfights; Diapason; WayneS
So your thinking is that Christians have been grafted into the tree and God is done with the Jews. IOW, Christians have replaced the Jews forever. Am I expressing your thinking correctly?

No, you are not.

First of all, I can see from your terminology that you are confused.

The distinction in Scripture (when it is appropriate) is between Jews and gentiles, not Jews and Christians. Jews can be Christians. Gentiles can be Christians. But Jews cannot be gentiles, and vice versa.

This manifests another distinction in the Bible, between the physical and the spiritual. A person can be a physical Jew, yet not be one spiritually. "But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, ‘In Isaac your seed shall be called.’" (Romans 9:6,7).

And on the other side, it is also true that one can be physically a gentile, yet not be one spiritually. "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God. " (Rom. 2:28,29) Paul refers to these non-elect Jews as “Israel after the flesh” to distinguish them from the true Israel of God (1 Cor. 10:18; Gal. 6:16).

According to Paul’s testimony, anyone who has been truly circumcised in the heart is considered a spiritual Jew regardless of their physical lineage.

God has only ever had one people. Under the old covenant, that people was made up predominantly (but not exclusively) of the people of Israel. Under the new covenant, that people has been expanded to include people from all nation, peoples, tribes and tongues (Rev. 7:9). But it is still only one people.

So, it is clear that God has not abandoned Israel after the flesh, but is incorporating (regrafting) many of them back into the root by spiritual rebirth. In fact, all those who have been (re-)grafted into the root as the true seed of Abraham and the true Israel of God. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal. 3:28,29)

This reclamation of “Israel after the flesh” is what has been going on now for 2000 years and will continue until Christ returns.

151 posted on 11/19/2009 11:31:10 AM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: Quix

152 posted on 11/19/2009 11:34:19 AM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: topcat54

I see you’re still playing with garbage . . .

unlike the excellent doc here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2390078/posts?page=24


153 posted on 11/19/2009 11:42:59 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
God is married to the land of Israel,

Sorry, but that is utter nonsense.

So when the fig tree was replanted, that was it...1948 and counting.

That deserves sounding a FUTURIST FANTASY ALERT!!

There was no “fig tree” replanted in 1948.

154 posted on 11/19/2009 11:43:28 AM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: Quix
I see you’re still playing with garbage . . .

Not playing, but I can sure smell it from a distance and try to warn others to avoid it.

155 posted on 11/19/2009 11:50:20 AM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; esquirette; Lee N. Field
200 million man army from the East that marched into the ...

On horses. Don't forget the horses.

And don't forget that there are not nearly that many horses in the ENTIRE WORLD!

Perhaps we really are dealing with images and symbols here.

156 posted on 11/19/2009 11:53:25 AM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: Augustinian monk
You obviously don’t get the History Channel or Discovery. It’s pretty much common knowledge now that the world will end on Dec 12, 2012.

I've been watching, waiting for a single verifiable fact or justifiable conjecture. Never got one of those, but one thing I heard repeatedly: the date is supposed to be Dec 21st, 2012.

Perhaps your fingers slipped?

157 posted on 11/19/2009 11:54:44 AM PST by BelegStrongbow (I'm still waiting for Dear Leader to say something that isn't a lie)
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To: topcat54

I’ve noted, I think repeatedly,

that I believe that army to be demonic and/or fallen angel forces.

Of course, I don’t expect you to deal with my postings accurately.


158 posted on 11/19/2009 11:55:44 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Uri’el-2012; WayneS
I do not take the xenophobic jingoistic rantings personally.

How jingoism or xenophobia works it way into this discussion is beyond rational comprehension.

Certainly one is not exhibiting the Chesed of Yah'shua by wild exaggeration.

159 posted on 11/19/2009 12:00:43 PM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: Uri’el-2012; topcat54; WayneS

2 Ti 4:1 [Jesus Christ] shall judge the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING.

Seems a bit out of order for what I have been told by Dispensationalists. Jesus Christ is coming to JUDGE. Says so explicitly in the verse you just cited. Doesn’t say anything about coming to setup a kingdom.

All dispensationalists should repeat after Paul:
Jesus Christ shall JUDGE at his appearing.


160 posted on 11/19/2009 12:06:06 PM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: Uri’el-2012
the Master Christian Library. A former pastor told me he paid over $10,000 for all of the books it contains.

Looks like a huge mishmosh hodgepodge of out of copyright stuff.

161 posted on 11/19/2009 12:10:49 PM PST by Lee N. Field (I am not a navi, nor do I ramble on pretending to be one on teh Interwebz.)
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To: Lee N. Field
Looks like a huge mishmosh hodgepodge of out of copyright stuff.

Are you describing the King James Version ?

162 posted on 11/19/2009 12:37:12 PM PST by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Quix
That very well could be, Quiz.

However it works out, if God said the army will be on horses, then they will be on horses. Even if puny, finite, limited, fallen man can't understand how it could be done.

163 posted on 11/19/2009 12:51:58 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Lord_Calvinus
Check out the Koine Greek.

I find it self deluding to create dogma by 1611 KJV only.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

164 posted on 11/19/2009 12:52:53 PM PST by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Quix
I’ve noted, I think repeatedly,

No disrespect, but since you have managed to not present any biblical/exegetical justification for your "notes", all it amount to is a bunch of well-seasoned ...

Of course, I don’t expect you to deal with my postings accurately.

Sadly, there is nothing substantive to deal with.

165 posted on 11/19/2009 2:22:56 PM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: Uri’el-2012; Lord_Calvinus
Check out the Koine Greek.

The Greek original does not establish the futurist version of a carnal kingdom on earth.

In fact, it cannot in light of other passages like 2 Peter 3:10-12.

166 posted on 11/19/2009 2:27:08 PM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; Quix
That very well could be, Quiz.

And pigs could fly.

167 posted on 11/19/2009 2:28:08 PM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: topcat54
Pigs will fly when we see a coherent, credible, believable, Biblical defense from you about what you believe rather than constantly attacking what others believe.

Pigs will fly before that happens because it is impossible for you to coherently, credibly, believably, and Biblicaly back up your beliefs, whatever the heck they are.

You have no credibility because the only thing you can do is tear down and deny Scripture and verbally assault others with your phony, smug contempt.

Pigs will fly when you are able to make a case for what you say you believe. It will never happen because you simply can't do it.

168 posted on 11/19/2009 2:43:30 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Uri’el-2012; topcat54

Well, since I do read and write Koine Greek, perhaps you would care to instruct me. ;)

The verse says what it says. The Lord is coming for JUDGMENT!!! It is explicitly stated in the verse you just cited. Christians have been confessing that since oh long before the AV was written.


169 posted on 11/19/2009 5:03:45 PM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Pigs will fly when we see a coherent, credible, believable, Biblical defense from you about what you believe rather than constantly attacking what others believe.

I have articulated and defined what I believe in many instances and in sufficient detail to satisfy this forum.

Since it does not comport with futurist nonsense about a secret rapture, rebuilt temples, animal sacrifices, Cobra helicopters, a Chinese army on horseback, nuclear war, massive destruction, you will probably not find it “coherent, credible, believable.”

170 posted on 11/19/2009 5:09:28 PM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: topcat54

I actually make no argument regarding the kingdom with that verse, merely the fact that it is stated that the Lord’s judgment is coincident with his appearance.

And I find it so amusing that I was called self deluded for making use of the KJV (which I didn’t). Perhaps it is the dispensationalists who are self deluded for ignoring the clear reading of that verse. I also find it knee slapping amusing that the verse is followed by the warning that people will turn away from listening to the truth and wander after MYTHS. Kinda describes dispensationalism, don’t it.


171 posted on 11/19/2009 5:33:53 PM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: topcat54
If you have a different interpretation of Scripture, that's your business.

There is something more going on when you feel the endless compulsion to get on here and rip to shreds anyone who takes Biblical prophecy literally and not as something that is mythology, fantasy, or fable.

And you make yourself look like a kook when an article is posted that is demonstrating a literal fulfillment of a Scriptural prophecy and you can't keep yourself from attempting to debunk it. It's just weird.

Like I said, you can believe what you want to. If you want to cut out the entire Bible, or half of it, or two chapters, that's between you and God. You go too far with your lame, obsessive need to try to tear down anyone who takes the Word of God literally and who posts articles reflecting events which are happening which reflect the literal truth of the Bible.

Everyone has their insecurities. You need to take yours somewhere other than Free Republic.

172 posted on 11/20/2009 1:00:04 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; Lord_Calvinus
If you want to cut out the entire Bible, or half of it, or two chapters, that's between you and God.

Like many futurist dispensationalists, you suffer from the mistaken notion that disagreement with you is tantamount to chopping up the Bible and disregarding pieces. Not only is such a view patently wrong, it is also the height of arrogance and demonstrates a willful self-delusion on the part of futurists.

In reality it is the futurist who disregards much of the NT teaching on the nature of Christ’s kingdom and applies a hyper-literal interpretation to selective OT prophecies to support their errant views.

Darby and Scofield, the forefathers of modern futurism, were the masters when it comes to slicing and dicing the Bible to support their preconceptions.

173 posted on 11/20/2009 7:06:59 AM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: Lord_Calvinus
I actually make no argument regarding the kingdom with that verse, merely the fact that it is stated that the Lord’s judgment is coincident with his appearance.

I understand. But some folks wish to take a simple verse and insert their fantasy millennial kingdom without any justification, and ignore other passages that makes such a view impossible.

174 posted on 11/20/2009 7:09:36 AM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: Lord_Calvinus
Well, since I do read and write Koine Greek, perhaps you would care to instruct me. ;)

The verse says what it says. The Lord is coming for JUDGMENT!!! It is explicitly stated in the verse you just cited. Christians have been confessing that since oh long before the AV was written.

If that be the case then your problem arises from Eisegesis of the text.

You presume a time sequence and date setting from one line of scripture

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
175 posted on 11/20/2009 8:22:32 AM PST by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: topcat54

I’m fine if I see the little stick figures running back and forth.


176 posted on 11/20/2009 8:33:54 AM PST by bmwcyle (When do they collect and jail the homeless when they don't buy their health care?)
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To: Uri’el-2012; topcat54

***If that be the case then your problem arises from Eisegesis of the text.***

Oh, brother. The verse is explicit. How long should I wait for you to instruct me in the Greek? Oh, and as topcat pointed out, nowhere in the verse can be found this dispensational idea of a future kingdom.

***You presume a time sequence and date setting from one line of scripture.***

I presume nothing: 2 Ti 4:1 [The Lord Jesus] shall judge the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING.

I’m just reading. Can’t help that if it doesn’t meet with your expectation of what the verse should say, but doesn’t.

Umm, and how many times must something be said in Scripture for it to be true? Not that there aren’t other verses which teach that the Lord is coming for judgment. People do love to cite that every teaching is established by the word of two or more. ;) But, really....

How many times does it have to be said before the Bible is no longer lying?


177 posted on 11/20/2009 8:51:04 AM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: Uri’el-2012; Lord_Calvinus
If that be the case then your problem arises from Eisegesis of the text.

This is the problem of projection. It’s a common disorder among futurists. E.g., claiming eisegesis of your opponent while ignoring the fact that you are reading a futurist millennial kingdom into a passage where it clearly does not belong.

You’ll never discover the truth until you overcome it.

178 posted on 11/20/2009 9:07:52 AM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: Lord_Calvinus
Lord_Calvinus

Anyone who has the chutzpah to name himself and Calvin
using the euphemism ascribed to the creator of the universe : YHvH,
is suspect in their understanding of YHvH and the Word of G-d: Yah'shua.
Exd 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD YHvH your God in vain, for the LORD YHvH will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

Deu 5:11 'You shall not take the name of the LORD YHvH your God in vain, for the LORD YHvH will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

I pray you turn in repentance and seek the face of YHvH.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
179 posted on 11/20/2009 9:18:59 AM PST by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Uri’el-2012

Less than 24 hours til I have someone praying for my repentence. I think that is a record even for me, though there was this Baptist once that went off his rocker when he found out I was one of those Calvinists in his church. That was kinda fun.

Does this mean you won’t be giving me a lesson in the Greek?

BTW, Calvinus is a beer, twinkletoes. ;)
http://www.calvinus.ch/


180 posted on 11/20/2009 9:37:37 AM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: Lord_Calvinus
BTW, Calvinus is a beer, twinkletoes. ;)

Mazol Tov !

Buy a clue.

Have a wonderful journey on the wide road of life.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
181 posted on 11/20/2009 10:18:10 AM PST by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: topcat54
I'll believe what you say the next time someone posts an article which proves that an end-prophecy is in process of being fulfilled or has been fulfilled and you don't respond.

And as for "hyper-literal interpretation"- are the men in Israel who are presently training and preparing to serve as priests in the soon-to-be-rebuilt Temple wasting their time? Are they just going through the training for kicks and giggles? Talk about "arrogant". There's no arrogance on the face of the earth worse than the fallen human being who is presented with proof positive of the ongoing fulfillment of Bible prophecy (which, if you believe God, was written by Him) and blatantly denies and lies about what is happening right in front of his face. And does so knowing that others will see that denial and be influenced to reject Christ because of it. The person who does that holds the market on arrogance. To deny God and state that part of His Scriptures are not true??? That is the definition of arrogance.

Speaking of "chopping up the Bible", and "arrogance", what did you guys do with the book of Revelation when you ripped it out of the Bible?

182 posted on 11/20/2009 12:54:46 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
are the men in Israel who are presently training and preparing to serve as priests in the soon-to-be-rebuilt Temple wasting their time?

Read the epistle to the Hebrews, then you tell me.

183 posted on 11/20/2009 1:32:05 PM PST by Lee N. Field (I am not a navi, nor do I ramble on pretending to be one on teh Interwebz.)
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To: Lee N. Field
Well, I have read Hebrews and then not too long ago I read where, right now, men from the Jewish tribe of Levi are training to serve as priests in the new Temple which is close to being rebuilt.

I mean, no matter how hard one tries, there is simply no way to deny the reality of this training for the rebuilt Temple. What a terrible position to be in - having fervently denied the truth of end time Scripture and now to see future priests of the rebuilt Temple being trained to serve - a fulfillment of end time Bible prophecy.

Check the Gary DeMars archives. Maybe he has some ideas of how to keep denying the reality that Biblical prophecy is being fulfilled in our time, even as it is actually happening, without getting laughed off the planet.

184 posted on 11/20/2009 3:14:44 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
I mean, no matter how hard one tries, there is simply no way to deny the reality of this training for the rebuilt Temple

In light of the completed work of Christ, is what you say they are doing a good thing?

185 posted on 11/20/2009 4:16:13 PM PST by Lee N. Field (I am not a navi, nor do I ramble on pretending to be one on teh Interwebz.)
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To: Lee N. Field
The completed work of Christ is but one aspect of what He ordained to accomplish with His creation. Through the completed work of Christ, His stated mission and goal of rescuing man from the consequences of sin and rebellion and reconciling man to God has been wonderfully accomplished as millions of human beings down through the ages have accepted Christ as their personal Savior and are and will spend eternity with Him.

However, the Scripture is clear on two other issues: God is not done dealing with Israel and the Jews, and God judges sin.

We know from God's Word that the Jewish temple will be rebuilt, and we know from God's Word that the Jews will be carrying on the rituals and sacrifices that they performed until their second temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70AD. We know this will happen because God said it will.

The fact that the descendants of the Old Testament Levitical priests are now in training to serve in the newly rebuilt temple is neither good nor bad; it is something that God has decreed will happen, and therefore it will come to pass and, as we are witnessing in our time, the players in that Tribulation scenario are making the preparations which will result in the fulfillment of Scripture.

God is not finished with Israel; His covenants with them are still in effect and are eternal, and the Tribulation period which is, as God put it, "The time of Jacob's (Israel's) trouble", will be a time when 144,000 Jewish people, who have come to salvation in Christ, go throughout the world spreading the Gospel, and it will be the time when, as God put it, "All Israel shall be saved". The day will come, as God promised, when the surviving remnant of His people will come to know Christ as Savior.

The fact that this training is occurring is merely another brick in the wall of ongoing fulfillment of Bible prophecy. There is no value judgment to be assigned to it; it simply must happen because the Sovereign God has decreed it.

186 posted on 11/21/2009 4:36:12 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: topcat54; All
Should be asking if anyone should pay attention to the false teachings of Preterism... LOL... It's funny to listen to a teacher (the posted article) who holds to the false teachings of Preterism speaking about the hype of 2012. At least Mark Hitchcock of Edmond Faith Bible Church in Oklahoma presents solid and Biblical teachings about the hype of 2012... :-)


Here's a good study series of sermons about Dispensations and the Rapture, from Mark Hitchcock at Edmond Faith Bible Church in Oklahoma. Pastor Hitchcock just put up his own blog, too, recently.

A little bit about Mark Hitchcock (because you should get to know this prophecy teacher as he's a prolific writer and a good prophecy teacher and a good teacher in general.



Mark Hitchcock is a leading Bible prophecy expert, prolific author who has penned over 20 books on the end times, senior pastor, and adjunct faculty member of the Dallas Theological Seminary. He has appeared on hundreds of radio programs and in print as well as The History Channel, MSNBC, Fox, The Glenn Beck Show, and CNN. A leading Christian voice on Mayan 2012 prophecy, he is scheduled to appear on an NBC sci-fi special related to 2012 airing fall, 2009.

A former attorney, Mark initially worked for the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals. Following a call to full-time ministry, today he serves as senior pastor of Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma, just outside of Oklahoma City. He graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary in 1991, where he subsequently earned his doctorate in 2006 and more recently has served as an adjunct faculty member.

Hitchcock has been a contributing editor for the Left Behind Prophecy Club for many years. His new book 2012, the Bible, and the End of the World (Harvest House Publishers) will be released September 15, 2009. He has also recently released Cashless (July 1, 2009, also published by Harvest House), showing how today’s headlines foreshadow a new and vastly different economic future—a one-world economy that is consistent with Bible prophecy in Revelation 13. Some of his other titles include: The Late Great United States: What Bible Prophecy Reveals about America’s Last Days; Armageddon, Oil, and Terror; Iran the Coming Crisis: Radical Islam, Oil and the Nuclear Threat; The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse; What On Earth is Going On?; Is America in Bible Prophecy?; The Coming Islamic Invasion of Israel; Is the Antichrist Alive Today?; Seven Signs of the End Times; and What Jesus Says About Earth’s Final Days.

Hitchcock maintains an active speaking schedule, appearing frequently at prophecy conferences, seminaries, and churches. He and his wife, Cheryl, live in Edmond, Oklahoma with their two sons Justin and Samuel.



Faith Bible Church
600 N. Coltrane
Edmond, Oklahoma 73034
Phone: 405-340-1000
Fax: 405-340-7504

SERMONS

The teaching of Dispensationalim / Pastor Mark Hitchcock and Dr. Charles Ryrie


Left Behind - What's It All About? / Tim LaHaye and Gary Frazier


The Rapture


The Pre-Trib Rapture


And..., here's one to educate yourself about End Times Controversies, especially when you are challenged on the Rapture. It's about the false and heretical teachings of Preterism, which is the teaching which denies the future prophecies are related to and significant for Israel and denies that Israel is still the chosen nation before God and that it will have future significance in God's plan in the Millennial Kingdom (the 1,000 year Kingdom, before the final judgement at the Great White Throne) that Jesus, the Messiah sets up here on this earth

I would say this one is essential as it's jam packed full of necessary information. Mark Hitchcock did his Doctoral Paper on this subject at Dallas Theological Seminary and wrote a book about it, too.

About the Errors of Preterism and End Times Controversy / Pastor Mark Hitchcock




Faith Bible Church Teaching

Holy Scriptures
We teach that the Bible is the Word of God, supernaturally inspired so that it is inerrant in the original manuscripts and has been preserved by God, so that it is the divinely authoritative standard for every age and every life.

The Godhead
We teach that there is one God eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient manifesting Himself in three persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit; one in nature, equal in attributes, essence, power and glory.

Jesus Christ
We teach that the Lord Jesus Christ is God incarnate, very God and very man, that He was begotten by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and offered Himself on the cross as a substitutionary sacrifice, suffering the full penalty for sinners. He was raised bodily on the third day and ascended to the right hand of the Father, there to intercede for us as our advocate and High Priest.

Man
We teach that man, as a consequence of Adam's sin, is subject to the wrath of God, justly condemned in His sight, wholly unable to save himself. Although man was originally created in the image of God, apart from God's salvation through Christ man is eternally lost.

Salvation
We teach that salvation is wholly by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and entirely apart from any ordinance, ritual, human merit or works. Salvation is the free gift of God and once it is received it cannot by any means be lost. While sin may interrupt the joy of a believers fellowship with God and bring the loving discipline of the Father, the true believer is eternally secure.

Spiritual Gifts
We teach that Christ gives to each believer, at conversion, by the ministry of the Holy Spirit, some gift or gifts to equip him to serve the Lord and edify other believers.

The Church
We teach that the universal Church consists of all true believers in the Lord Jesus Christ from Pentecost to the Rapture. Each local assembly or church should be a miniature of the universal Church, expressing the great truths of the latter. The local assembly consists of believers in the Lord Jesus Christ who meet regularly for teaching, fellowship, breaking of bread, prayer and evangelism.

Ordinances
We teach that there are two Christian ordinances: water baptism and the Lord's Supper. Baptism is the testimony of a believer showing forth in solemn and beautiful emblem his faith in the crucified, buried and risen Savior, and his union and identification with Him in death to sin and resurrection to a new life. We teach that the Lord's Supper serves as a commemoration and proclamation of Jesus' death until He comes.

Last Things
We teach the following future events: the personal, imminent coming of the Lord Jesus to rapture the Church, the tribulation period, the second coming of Christ, the millennial reign of Christ, the judgment of the lost, and the eternal state.



And here is the Faith Bible Church page with all the sermons on it.

187 posted on 11/21/2009 7:12:09 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: topcat54

I have a way of surviving any holocaust...just send $99.99.

Tax free!


188 posted on 11/21/2009 7:35:41 AM PST by devistate one four (Back by popular demand: America love or leave it (GTFOOMC) TET68)
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To: topcat54

I have a way of surviving any holocaust...just send $99.99.

Tax free!


189 posted on 11/21/2009 7:38:07 AM PST by devistate one four (Back by popular demand: America love or leave it (GTFOOMC) TET68)
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To: Uri’el-2012

**Buy a clue***

I just figured if you were going to pretend to be the accuser you could at least accuse me for the right reasons instead of the wrong ones. You know, wouldn’t want you to bear a false witness over lies. Oh, wait, nevermind. ;)


190 posted on 11/21/2009 8:23:20 AM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: topcat54
The apostles expected Jesus to reappear in their life time as did Paul.

It is vital that it seem imminent ... any moment any day in order for people/believers to live according to the Scriptures. Otherwise they would and could do anything, and suppose they can repent before they die. Which by the way happens to many everyday, that did not expect it; and perhaps were unable to have time to repent.

Sincerity is a necessity (of belief/faith)for saving grace, not just words.

191 posted on 12/07/2009 10:56:47 AM PST by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
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To: geologist
The apostles expected Jesus to reappear in their life time as did Paul.

That's one theory.

192 posted on 12/07/2009 12:27:45 PM PST by topcat54 ("Don't whine to me. It's all Darby's fault.")
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To: topcat54
Amazingly we are surrounded by theories.

When considered everything that we can not test ...IE. fire burns, gravity, water seeks its own level and other testable ideas, moon landing, acorns grow to be oak trees ... and like kind.

Most all else ... medical ideas change and morph regularly, values are changing, educations has been and is changing for the worst, criminal laws are changing, as are punishments, law is morphing before our eyes, death panels are a vast jump into giving others the power to decide who has right to live or die, and so forth

Name something not changing. It is all based on theory. Often wrongly motivated.

God help us in our day, in Jesus name, amen.

193 posted on 12/09/2009 10:18:58 AM PST by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
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