Skip to comments.Visionary wonít share Virginís message
Posted on 12/10/2009 9:49:46 AM PST by Alex Murphy
BATULAO, Batangas, Philippines It was a heartbreaking 60th birthday for visionary Emma De Guzman when in the early morning of Tuesday, December 8, she chose not to deliver the message from the Virgin Mary unlike so many other times in the past.
Close to 5,000 pilgrims joined the trek up the Mountain of Salvation in Batulao, to some observers possibly the biggest delegation to join in the prayers and support of the apparition of the Blessed Virgin to Emma.
Emmas journey from plain overseas Filipino nanny in Canada to visionary exhibiting mystical phenomena like stigmata, bilocation, levitation, the gift of healing, unexplainable ability to write in ancient Greek, and the most popular manifestation, glitters or escarchas on her face, started in 1986.
Her simple untutored ways coupled with extraordinary faculties gained her hordes of foreign followers from the La Pieta International prayer group from Canada, the United States, and some European countries where she was better known than in her own hometown.
In 2004, Emma came to the Mountain of Salvation to share her vision with her countrymen and has been coming twice yearly, on September 8 and December 8, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
Message for Filipinos
The followers grew from 300 to a thousand with devotees praying the rosary and hearing mass from noon to midnight, when the Virgin would normally appear to Emma and leave her with a message for the Filipino people.
Throughout the years, the message has always stressed that God had chosen the Philippines to carry on the evangelization in Asia, being the only Christian nation in the region.
Last September, Emma reported that the Virgin told her that God loves the Filipinos and will protect the country from all its problems. There was a statement that something will occur in 2010 generally interpreted as election-related, but from 2011 to 2016 the country will experience great prosperity.
Tuesday started encouragingly. The weather was dry and balmy unlike her last visit in September which was muddy and stormy. Seven priests led by Bishop Ramon Arguelles of Lipa and Fr. Dennis Paez said Mass. Familiar supporters like Bill Pote, Brenda Padilla, Andrea Limpo, Rica Limcaoco, Danny and Gigi Rodriguez, Arlina Onglaos Journeys of Faith, and a busload of pilgrims from Guam attended the vigil.
When glitters started appearing on Emmas face, a signal for the apparition, Emma began sobbing loudly and bitterly. After a few minutes, Fr. Paez announced that Emma was not ready to share the message of the Virgin Mary, and that it was time for the pilgrims to leave the premises. Nothing like this had happened in the past.
As the pilgrims trekked down the hill at 2:30 in the morning, they knew in their hearts that God was angry about the Maguindanao travesty. It was a sad day for Emma and the Filipino people.
....Throughout the years, the message has always stressed that God had chosen the Philippines to carry on the evangelization in Asia, being the only Christian nation in the region....
.... When glitters started appearing on Emmas face, a signal for the apparition, Emma began sobbing loudly and bitterly. After a few minutes, Fr. Paez announced that Emma was not ready to share the message of the Virgin Mary, and that it was time for the pilgrims to leave the premises. Nothing like this had happened in the past. As the pilgrims trekked down the hill at 2:30 in the morning, they knew in their hearts that God was angry about the Maguindanao travesty. It was a sad day for Emma and the Filipino people.
Do we know what this is all about?
“Government-sponsored militias have become a fixture in many Philippine provinces plagued by Muslim and communist rebellions and by bandits.”
[Emma De Guzman]s journey from plain overseas Filipino nanny in Canada to visionary exhibiting mystical phenomena like stigmata, bilocation, levitation, the gift of healing, unexplainable ability to write in ancient Greek, and the most popular manifestation, glitters or escarchas on her face, started in 1986....
How anyone can believe such crap is beyond me. Gross Superstition.
This is the kind of nonsense Rome promotes (even when they deny Medjagorge) to which I am referring. Goofy stuff such as this has caused the average Catholic to depart from the biblical Gospel of grace delivered by Paul and, instead, embrace error. I lay this at Rome’s feet.
Thanks for the post. This is the sort of thing I was referring to when I got upset on another thread with someone criticizing “Prots” for Benny Hinn.
Protestants reject Benny Hinn. But where is the rejection of this stuff by the Vatican?
I didn't even read the post. Visions don't interest me until they are said to be commended (or whatever the lingo is.) IF the vision increases the visionary's devotion to Jesus, good. If not, then it's bad. More than that I don't care one way or another.
Rule One: "Rome" is the locus of all evil in the Universe.
Rule Two: In cases of doubt, see Rule One.
All Else Is Irrelevant.
Do you have a problem with Revelation?
It's OK to say "yes". Luther did but then again, tossing out books from the Bible seems to be a Protestant trait.
Responsibility rests first and foremost with the local Ordinary of the diocese who will, in due course, issue a statement on these events, if he hasn't already.
I'm not sure why you think it should be rejected. The Virgin Mary has appeared throughout history. Mystical phenomena have always been a part of Christian spirituality.
What is the Baptist take on visions and such?
I don’t see why, in general, they would be impossible or wrong. The existence of counterfeits doesn’t necessarily mean there is nothing to be counterfeited.
This response is so far afield, I won’t dignify it with a rebuttal.
I don’t know what the Baptist view is on visions. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any consensus among Baptists on the issue.
I assume some are true, but many are false. I also haven’t seen anyone who claims to be a prophet who passed the scriptural test for one.
I don’t know of any Old Testament visions that involved a person who died, instead of an angel or God Himself. Apart from the Transfiguration, I can’t recall any in the New Testament, either. And the Transfiguration wasn’t exactly a vision.
Benny Hinn is as false as they come. I’m pretty skeptical that Mary is making regular trips to the Philippines as well...
Phew.........aren't I lucky.......LOL!!! Here I was thinking you were going to wipe the floor with me. < /s>
You have no rebuttal.
Is it only Filipino visions which trouble you or is it all Catholic mystical phenomena?
John went into a cave on the island of Patmos and "gazed into the visions of the night". Those visions he then transcribed and their record has been handed down to us through the generations.
Does that creep you out?
It is not about control; it is about teaching that such nonsense is true. That begins at the top and the Catholic Church loves the top-down authority, so they get to wear it.
Having spent most of my childhood and adolescence in a GARB Baptist church, I can say that Baptists are quite skeptical of visions, and take the position that any vision that fails to declare Christ, born in the flesh, crucified, and arisn, is not of God.
“Protestants reject Benny Hinn.”
Correction: some do. Millions don’t.
Some of what John recorded in Revelation is allegorical, such as the bowls and seals, but some was a clear vision of real future events, that sound strange due to his inability to describe modern military equipment and tactics in terms of the first century.
“It is not about control; it is about teaching that such nonsense is true.”
Okay, show us all where the Vatican teaches that this woman is right and telling the truth. Can you do that for us?
“That begins at the top and the Catholic Church loves the top-down authority, so they get to wear it.”
Okay, show us where Pope Benedict XVI teaches that this woman is right and telling the truth. Can you do that for us?
I certainly reject Hinn’s theatrics, self indulgence, and vanity, but I don’t feel qualified to reject the healings that occur. That is the Lord’s domain to judge.
Yeah, like that freaking Paul the Apostle and his "visions" of Jesus Christ and such. Where was the Vatican when we needed him to be disciplined for yapping about that in the Churches and taking people away from the pure Gospel? (/sarcasm)
Paul's delivering grace now?
Did you ever see the broad levitate?
No, I have never personally seen the Blessed Virgin Mary levitate, or Emma de Guzman levitate (sorry, I’m not clear who you are referring to as a broad).
My late grandmother was a Primitive Baptist. Primitive Baptists are required to have a vision, in order to be considered fully belonging to the church.
Evelyn Wood Reading Dynamics is available.
The possibility of truth of a proposition is said by some to rest on whether it is of such a nature that it could conceivably be shown to be false.
In a related way, A charge which is so vague as to be virtually incoherent is not worth defending against. Either you are saying something that is not so, that the Vatican or somebody has endorsed this woman's visions, or you are saying that there is no vision in this age, which would suggest that you deny the OT prophecies that the coming of the Messiah would involve a resurgence of visions, or something else. The phrase "such nonsense" is not very precise.
I’m sorry, “GARB” stands for (um, attire? ;-) )
Bearing in mind the difference in our theologies, the related standard applies for us. Who knows (and who cares?) if someone sees Jesus in her croque monsieur? BUT if he comes out and says, “I saw Jesus, and He says y’all gotta be vegans,” THEN we have a problem. If as a result of seeing Jesus in the grilled cheese somebody makes a commitment to work among the poor and or to go to Mass more often, fine! It worked for him, terrific.
Oh, the apologetics explaining it are thick, alright...just like much of the rest of their "explanations" when such depart from scripture, resulting in propping up all sorts of nonsense, if it can somehow increase their own power in the minds of men.
The "religiosity" of it all, is putrefying...
General Association of Regular Baptists.
They are by far the most ridgid and conservative of all protestant sects. (No smoke, no booze, no dancing, no teen dating, etc)
Would that help me decode your atrocious grammar?
But, what the hey.
Our Lady of Guadalupe? A fraud?
But I'm not quite so big a fool as to realize that lots of people (notably our current SecState) have a problem with the idea that God could or would paint an image on a tilma. So be gentle and 'splain, please?
Whatever it takes for you to understand that Rome, the Vatican, the Catholic Church (or whatever moniker you wish to give it) is a self-aggrandizing cult.
See post 26.
I doubt Evelyn Woods teaches anti-Catholic bigotry.
I would “lol” right back at you, but it is no laughing matter.
Our Lady of Guadalupe is no laughing matter, that much is certain.
Half-baked attempts to smear her as a fraud, though, are laughably pathetic.
The various evidences and claims have been well covered on these pages, and elsewhere, previously.
Your own one-liner claims that the bulk of evidences against, are "half baked" are just that, themselves. Your attempts to smear others whom hold views opposed to your own, are typical of most all your posts on this forum.
Please stop making this personal.
(I knew that. It’s just that I know a knock knock joke not suitable for the Religion forum, so when I saw “Emma” just kind of sitting there by herself, I had to get silly.)
Stunning, isn't it. Thanks for your persistence in apologetics. It's truly admirable.
Whenever anything like this happens, they can only talk with their Bishop.
Not to worry about it.
“The Catholic Church loves the top-down authority”
On the contrary; the Catholic Church is very much an advocate of the law of subsidiarity-—especially when it comes to a need for disciplinary action or any resolution regarding visionaries.
“Whatever it takes for you to understand that Rome, the Vatican, the Catholic Church (or whatever moniker you wish to give it) is a self-aggrandizing cult.”
I’ll tell you what it would take. Provide actual proof of what you claim - FOR ONCE AT LEAST. Look at post #21. Can you answer those questions yet?