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Pope John Paul II and Pope Pius XII move closer to sainthood
Times Online ^ | 12/19/2009 | Simon Alford

Posted on 12/19/2009 5:10:49 PM PST by SeekAndFind

The controversial wartime pope accused of failing to openly condemn the Holocaust has moved a step closer to sainthood, the Vatican has confirmed.

Pope Pius XII will be declared venerable after the current pontiff Pope Benedict XVI approved a "heroic virtues decree", the first of three stages before canonisation.

To be declared venerable, a church investigation has to conclude that the person in question lived a life of exemplary holiness and heroic virtue. There must be nothing in the dead person’s writings that enables these characteristics to be challenged.

Pope Benedict has also agreed to declare his predecessor Pope John Paul II venerable, just four years after his death, it has been announced.

Jewish groups had asked the pope to delay the process for Pius XII until further World War Two archives could be studied. He reigned from March 1939 until his death in 1958, and opponents claim he failed to explicitly speak out against Hitler or openly offer support to Jewish people.

Both Jewish and Catholic scholars have complained that Vatican archives on Pius XII are only fully accessible for the years up to 1939. It is understood the Vatican has said the 16 million files relating to Pius XII's 19-year reign will not be ready for public viewing until 2014 at the earliest.

“We are saddened and disappointed that the pontiff would feel compelled to fast-track Pope Pius at a point where the issue of the record, the history and the coming to a judgment, is still wide open,” said Abraham Foxman, a Holocaust survivor and the director of the US-based Anti-Defamation League.

The Vatican has maintained that Pius XII worked behind the scenes during the war, fearing that any direct intervention may have worsened the situation for both Jews and Catholics.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: popejohnpaulii; popepiusxii; sainthood

1 posted on 12/19/2009 5:10:52 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

they were either saints when they died because they
accepted Christ’s payment for their sins or they
weren’t. If they were, great. They are saints. If
they weren’t, not good.


2 posted on 12/19/2009 5:20:52 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Yup. The truth is that I’m a saint, thanks to Christ alone. I only need Scripture to tell me that, not the Roman Catholic Church.


3 posted on 12/19/2009 5:25:24 PM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Theo
The truth is that I’m a saint...

Hubris...it's not just for breakfast anymore.

4 posted on 12/19/2009 5:27:21 PM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: SeekAndFind
I love Pope Pius XII and Pope John Paul II. I am so happy for the popes and the Church!


5 posted on 12/19/2009 5:52:39 PM PST by GinaLolaB (Merry Christmas)
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To: Petronski; Theo
Hubris...it's not just for breakfast anymore.

I think when Theo uses the term "saint", he has a different concept of the term than you do.

In the New Testament you will notice the wording that the apostle is writing a letter to the saints. That was the terminology to indicate that a person had joined the church and was separated from the other people. So, a saint is a member of the church of Christ. That's most probably what Theo is referring to when he calls himself a saint.

I believe you are thinking of the term "saint" in a different context. You are thinking of the designation of "saint" as one bestowed by the Roman Catholic church. This is done when a person is of extrordinary virtue in their daily living/working life. This is accompanied by a remarkable faith in and relationship with God. The status "saint" is always determined and given posthumously.
6 posted on 12/19/2009 6:20:10 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Pope John Paul II and Pope Pius XII move closer to sainthood
SPECIAL: Popes Pius XII, John Paul II declared 'venerable'
Pope John Paul II Step Closer to Possible Beatification
Popes Move Closer to Sainthood [Jews Says Beatification of Pius XII "Thoughtless"]
Benedict XVI to declare John Paul II venerable at the Vatican (12/19)
7 posted on 12/19/2009 7:33:23 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

We are all sinners. Only through much diligence can a person become a saint. Much prayer, much fasting, much sacrifice, much service, etc.


8 posted on 12/19/2009 7:34:24 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: SeekAndFind

Even St. Paul says that we are sinners, not saints.


9 posted on 12/19/2009 7:35:46 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

“We are all sinners. Only through much diligence can a person become a saint. Much prayer, much fasting, much sacrifice, much service, etc.

This may be your view. I respect you.

However...

It is not the teaching of the Holy Bible, which refers
to all who have trusted Christ for salvation as saints.
No “prayer, much fasting, much sacrifice, much service”
will do it.

There is no higher authority than God in these matters.
I must accept His opinion over your own - heck, over my
own.

So as I wrote, for all men, popes included, if they are
not saints before they part the earth, they will never
be. If they are, they will remain saints forever.

thanks,
ampu


10 posted on 12/19/2009 7:39:24 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Salvation
Even St. Paul says that we are sinners, not saints.

Yes he did, but note one thing -- He called himself a sinner as well. Remember, this is St. Paul we are talking about.

An extremely valuable verse in this regard is 1 Corinthians 1:2. Here Paul calls his readers "the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."

What makes this passage valuable is that Paul defines the church of God at Corinth (the Christians at Corinth, his readers) as "those who have been sanctified (Greek - hagiazo) in Jesus Christ, saints (Greek - hagioi) by calling." There are not two groups here that he writes the letter to, the church and the saints, but one group, the church of God in Corinth, who are saints!

Please note that the Corinthian church is a very problematic church with lots of factions, quarreling and sinners. St. Paul wrote to them to rebuke them among other things.

St. Paul addresses his second letter to the Corinthians, "to the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia" (2 Cor. 1:1);

These were all LIVING, IMPERFECT Christians.

Therefore, based on the above examples and others, it is appropriate to conclude that New Testament saints are sinners who by virtue of having placed their faith in Jesus Christ, have received God's mercy, forgiveness, grace and salvation.
11 posted on 12/19/2009 8:01:55 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Petronski

You call it “hubris.” I call it simply adhering to Scripture.

You cling to your church. Go ahead. I’ll cling to Christ, my savior.

I affirm my tagline. How I love Christ. How I abhor those who would exalt themselves above Him and His word. How I abhor those who diminish His salvation by requiring allegiance to a particular denomination.

Petronski, you defame Christ by say that He is not sufficient. You defame Christ by saying that Christ Himself is not sufficient for salvation and abundant life. You defame Christ, Petronski, by diminishing the Savior.


12 posted on 12/19/2009 8:37:27 PM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Theo
You do understand that opinions such as you express here are of absolutely no interest to any well-catechized Catholic???? The Teaching Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church vs. your own personal interpretation of the Scriptures we passed along to you is not much of a rationally supported argument on your side.

I have usually ignored your posts and many others like them, believing as I do that FR is a place where conservatives should gather regardless of religious differences and fight our common enemies on the left. You seem to take every opportunity for insufferable preachiness towards Catholics and our Church and to treat FR as a platform for refighting the Thirty Years' War. Our common enemies and His continue to delight in this nonsense. No one died and left you to instruct Catholics in matters of faith.

13 posted on 12/19/2009 10:36:41 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Theo

How biblical of you.


14 posted on 12/20/2009 4:37:39 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Theo
You call it “hubris.” I call it simply adhering to Scripture.

Adhering to your own personal intepretation of Scripture.

You cling to your church. Go ahead.

The Church founded by Christ? The very Bride of Christ? I cling to Christ, so naturally I worship in the Church He founded for us.

I’ll cling to Christ, my savior.

Welcome aboard!

Petronski, you defame Christ by say that He is not sufficient.

Never said He is not sufficient and I rebuke the notion. Strike one.

You defame Christ by saying that Christ Himself is not sufficient for salvation and abundant life.

I never said any such thing and I rebuke it. Strike two.

You defame Christ, Petronski, by diminishing the Savior.

I have never diminished Christ and I rebuke the very idea of it. Strike three.

I'm not permitted to call those lies or to call you a liar, since it's not possible for me to know if you understand how false your statements are.

But you are bearing false witness...loudly...brashly...with every indication of keen enjoyment.

Good luck with that.

15 posted on 12/20/2009 6:10:30 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski

They really do enjoy building a straw-man argument, don’t they?


16 posted on 12/20/2009 6:19:47 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat
Generally speaking, does it really count as a lie if one is only lying about Catholics?
17 posted on 12/20/2009 6:21:07 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski

For some that is a noble calling apparently.


18 posted on 12/20/2009 6:22:58 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Petronski

BTW, you should check out Acts of the Apostasy at Blogspot and vote for the St. Thomas More Profile in Courage Award (I voted for Bishop Tobin) and the Baron Richie Rich Profile in Cowardice Award (I voted for Doug Kmiec).


19 posted on 12/20/2009 6:24:16 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Theo

The true Scriptural quote is “May I decrease and Christ increase”

That would be good advice for you.


20 posted on 12/20/2009 7:50:01 AM PST by Running On Empty ( The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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To: BlackElk

“insufferable preachiness”

How true.

And it never achieves its aims.


21 posted on 12/20/2009 7:51:26 AM PST by Running On Empty ( The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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To: Running On Empty

And look at what that tiny change seems to reveal: “I’M not the one who needs to decrease, THEY are.”


22 posted on 12/20/2009 7:52:11 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski

:-)


23 posted on 12/20/2009 7:53:28 AM PST by Running On Empty ( The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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