Posted on 12/26/2009 3:23:12 PM PST by Teófilo
Folks, I’ve really taken a long time to write this conclusion to the posts Can a Catholic Christian Pray Like a Jew parts I and II. The delay was due to various reasons, but the most important were that I wanted to reflect longer on the meaning of each post, as well as the review of an ever increasing stack of material that I’ve either discovered or that some of my correspondents have kindly referred me to. Therefore, please know that mine is not the last word on this subject. Nevertheless, what I’ve found fascinates me.
There seems to be a mysterious convergence of people of faith, Catholic and non-Catholic, drawn to the rediscovery of Christianity’s Jewish roots and a renewed attempt to reconcile ourselves with our brothers and sisters of postbiblical Judaism after 1,600 years of openly hostile enmity. This effort includes a scholarly attempt to resituate Jesus firmly within his First Century Jewish milieu, as well as a “recalibration” of Christian dogmatics that takes full advantage of this resetting. A respectful apologetics of Christianity – and Catholicism – has also been taking shape, one that is respectful of the Jewish post-Christian experience and mindful of the responsibility that our ancestors bear in the promotion of hostile, destructive, and persecutory actions aimed against Judaism as a religion and Jews, both as a people and as believers. While acknowledging this tragic past, the apologetic and evangelistic presentation of Jesus as both Messiah and Savior of the Jewish people – and principally for the Jewish people – continues relentlessly, albeit with delicacy and a full consciousness of how much Anti-Semitism has damaged the visible reunion between the historical Israel and the New Israel founded by the Blood of the Lamb.
Tragically, the Jewish-Catholic dialogue and rapprochement has also resulted in a resistance which as vocal as it is vile and vitriolic in its anti-Jewish hate. We can see examples of these regrettable attitudes here and here. It is a shame that people who consider themselves “Catholic” are still able to fall so short from the standard of Love the Lord left to us. But I will address the causes of Anti-Semitism and Anti-Judaism – the devil, the flesh, and the world – in a future post. For now, let me briefly review with you Can a Catholic Christian Pray Like a Jew parts I and II:
On part I we briefly discussed the Jewish characters of a number of hymns and prayers found in the Gospels that point to a definite convergence between Christianity and First Century Judaism. In fact, for these prayers and hymns to be fully intelligible, they must be read against the context of Judaism or not at all. We also talked about the Psalms and how these were Jesus’ own prayer book, and how Jesus went by himself many times to commune with the Father. I concluded with the observation that a Christian in general, and a Catholic in particular, can pray like a Jew, albeit a first century Jew, inasmuch as we pray like and in Jesus. Yet Jesus’ presence in the praying Catholic Christian is not a mere memory of someone who existed once in the past but who is only available to us through holy writings, but a living, breathing presence indwelling in us, who both prays in us and moulds us to pray like Him. In this sense, a Catholic prays like a Jew “all the time”. The reality of “praying like a Jew” is present in each one of us through Jesus Christ Our Lord.
On part II we spoke mostly of divergences. The first divergence was that Jewish prayer was mostly liturgical in character, in both its public and private manifestations, and that these prayers include a fervent element designed to strengthen the Jewish identity of the praying community or individual. We also saw than within this context, intimacy with God was assumed or conceived differently from the way we usually understand it from the writings of our greatest mystics. I said that if I were to encapsulate Jewish theology in one catchphrase, I would say that Jewish theology is “a theology of boundaries” between man and his Lord that cannot be crossed. These boundaries have dropped for Catholic Christians, and our communal experience of contemplative prayer has developed a vocabulary of “quest,” ascent, and union with God in the order of grace and that we found this “grammar of ascent” in the New Testament itself.
Some of the statements I said above regarding Jewish contemplative understandings are liable to further review, I am afraid. What I’ve written has been mostly based on very preliminary readings from a couple of authoritative primers. However, I must also say that the reasons why a number of Jesus’ own Jewish contemporaries picked up stones from the ground to throw at Him was because they understood very clearly the consequences of Jesus’ claims to be God’s ultimate, personal, Incarnate manifestation to them: that meant that the boundaries had fallen. Jesus was now the Temple and anyone could approach God in Him at any time without consideration of status or class. His claims must have been deeply unsettling and threatening to the Jewish identity of his hearers and to Israel’s claim of being God’s unique people, as well as deeply subversive to established political interests.
Modern Judaism exists because of the adhesion of most of Jesus’ Jewish contemporaries to “the eternal Israel”. We can see that in the quotes from Rabbi Neusner that Pope Benedict XVI included in his book Jesus of Nazareth. Hence the theology of dropped boundaries and direct, personal, and unmediated experience with God in incarnated human form didn’t make it into Judaism. Of course, post-biblical, post-second Temple Judaism was not impervious to Christian reflection on this issue and one may see here and there a “shifting of the boundaries” now closer to God, that allow the individual Jew a closeness and intimacy they never had before, when their sacrificial priesthood was in full functioning. But the barriers, and the boundaries, those closer to God than ever before, still remain.
We Christians must understand that why our Jewish brethren still set up and maintain these barriers and the motivations behind them. But we can’t make their barriers our own. The only limit we face in knowing God is Jesus’ own instrumental humanity which is, paradoxically, as finite as ours and yet bottomless and boundless in the expression of the eternal, infinite divinity of God. God in human form has become intelligible to our minds and senses while the mystery remains inexhaustible and unfathomable.
It’s a lot like looking at the Sun: we can tell it’s bright, hot, pretty large, and very active. But we can only guess at what’s going on in its core even though we dispose of a set of mathematical symbols that gives us an idea, but not the actual experience of what’s going on at the heart of the Sun.
Similarly, when we look at the Heart of the Son, we can use a set of symbols – words, phrases, and sentences – that may describe analogically and in fragments what’s going on in there, at the core of Jesus’ humanity; however, although we might never experience what is like in the core of our nearest star, we are called, even impelled, to “experience” the Trinitarian perichoresis –the “dancing together –going on in the Heart of the Son of God.
Therein lays the difference between the objects of Jewish and Christian prayers: Jewish prayer looks at God the way we would look at the Sun, but Christian prayers looks at God by looking at the Son, beyond symbol and expression and by full participation in the Son’s divine life.
This is not to say that Jewish prayer can never take us to the Heart of Christ. Remember that we said that all those very Jewish canticles and prayers we find in the Gospels and elsewhere in the New Testament and first and foremost Jewish in essence. The mystery is completely intelligible in Jewish-Hebraic terms to those who heard it and in the Gospel we are privy to their reactions: acceptance by some and rejection by others. In this the Jews of Jesus’ times were no different than the Jews and Gentiles of today, including Catholics who think they know Him and that hating the Jews is doing God’s service. But they do not. The message of God’s ultimate entry into contingent human history continues actual and fresh and challenging to this day.
We can pray the Our Father and those other prayers and hymns in the New Testament as Jews and only in this way we can experience them primarily as Christians. There’s simply no way around it. In this manner, all Catholics could and should pray like Jews. May the blessing of the Almighty God, Father, Son, and + Holy Spirit be with all of us.
Paulianity is neither Judaism nor Christianity. Paul says he was eveyrhting to all people, whatever they needed to hear, he was that.
Jesus was a Jew.
He will come to reign the world from Jerusalem Yah'shua was, is and will be always be a Jew !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
on King David's Throne during the millennium.
This is just the same old same old "if you don't believe this is what will befall you..." Luke 21:10-24 is just a mumbo-jumbo collection of various "prophesies" collected out of context from various parts of Isaiah, Daniel and the rest of the OT. Jerusalem is back in Jewish hands...and nothing.
19Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Then you can tell me why are the Apostles then baptizing in the name of Jesus throughout the book of Acts? And why does Eusebius (in the 3rd century) quote no less than 17 times the very same verses without the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost? I will tell you why: because it wasn't there. Someone, conveniently, added it later on.
It's good to see that you are cherry-picking those verses that suit you and ignoring those that don't. Why not pick verses that are not questionable such as Like Mat 10:5-6 "'Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" or Mat 15:24 "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"?
To use your own words "Last I checked Matthew quoted Christ." Read your Bible a little closer.
It doesn't matter IF the Jewish Bible says this or not
Well, it does to the Jews.
The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament
Hardly.
Out of context. It says nothing about brining the gentiles into the fold. At any rate, it was Pal who invented the idea that Gentiles are always non-Jews. The OT treats the word gentile (goy) as a "nonbeliever" whether it be a Jew or nor.
Psalm 117:1 O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people. Translational bias. The word for nations is tribes. He could just as well be speaking of the 12 tribes of Israel. David would have been thinking of Israeli tribes.
Seems the Old Testament even mentions gentiles and all nations seeking and praising God
Seems to be you are reading into translations and interpreting the mindset and the meanings of the Middle eastern society 2,000 and more ago.
From the Shem Tov Matthew:
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Our father in heaven
Spoken by Yah'shua a Jew, then and now and forever.
may your name be sanctified
may your kingdom be blessed
your will shall be done in heaven and on earth
give us our bread continually
forgive us the debt of our sins
as we forgive the debt of those who sin against us
do not bring us into the hands of a test
and protect us from all evil
amen
The Old Testament refers specifically to the Jews as gentiles. Your translations probably doesn't. You have to look at the original language.
Romans 11: 17
Romans 11:17 is nonsense, if you read it closely that is.
I think this is pretty obvious, and your just looking for an argument.
I think you are just looking for an excuse not to answer my questions.
Christians are called Christians because we believe Jesus is the Christ the Messiah. Todays Jews, the Non-Messianic Jews, do not believe Jesus was the Messiah, but Messianic Jews do.
Messianic Jews are not recognized as Jews either by the Jews or by Christians. They are in their own little world. They are just one of many Christian sects or better yet cults.
They also practice Judaism, because REAL Judaism never ended with Jesus, it continued.
You can't be a Jew and worship another God, even if you observe Jewish festivals. Judaism does not recognize Christ as God.
The Apostle also didn't prey to Jesus! No one calls him God, except John and he wrote way after Judaism and Christianity parted ways. Paul specifically says there is but one God, the Father. There is no one else he calls God. Lord is not only a divine title. Anyone who is appointed above anyone else is his lord. Paul also says that the head of Christ is God. Read your Bible closely, practice what you preach.
Judaism DOES NOT reject Christ, it points TO Christ.
If retro interpreted based on the NT, using OT references based on Septuagint and out of order and context. Muslims also claim Isaiah mentions Mohamed. Whatever.
The prophecies of the Old Testament point to a coming Messiah
Jewish messiah (and only apocalyptic Jews believed in him) was supposed to be a human being, not god.
Messianic Jews believe Jesus is the fulfilment of that prophecy
So, then they don't believe Jesus is God?
When talking about Judaism its important to know and note the difference
No, FRiend, Judaism does not accept Christ in any form or shape. No Jewish sect believes messiah has arrived. The conditions are not right. messianic Jews are Christians, not Jews.
Its important to understand, Yes, the Jewish holidays, are feasts commanded by God. But instead of looking at these simply as Laws that must be obeyed or observed, we should see them as they REALLY ARE.
Well, the Law doesn't apply to Christians. So they are under no obligation to keep them.
These Celebrations are to celebrate what God has done for the people of Israel.
What has he done for the people of Israel? I can think of a lot horrible things too.
Then I would call it Paulianity. It's a common affliction among Christians. Paul did not teach what Jesus taught in the Gospels. He taught his own.
Only Christians pray the Lord’s Prayer even if they dress it in Jewish garbs. Matthew was written in Greek.
Rejected by Judaism, a blapshemer in Jewish eyes.
You're starting to sound like those blasted Calvinists /grump.
And OBTW so was and is Yah'shua. Peter, John, Matthew, Jude, Mark, Luke and Paul were Messianic Jews.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
And the Romans were just there on holiday, right?
All rejected by Israel and thrown out of the synagogues. You may wish to read John's Gospel; it's not something you'd expect from a Jew. In fact he treats the Jews as definitely not the same kind as himself.
od>Jesus was a Jew.
Rejected by Judaism, a blapshemer in Jewish eyes.
29 posted on December 27, 2009 10:24:45 AM MST by kosta50
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
You might want to ask the Ru'ach HaKodesh to illuminate Romans 11.
Very specifically: Romans 11 where Paul discusses who is grafted into whom.
NAsbU Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off,
and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them
and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
NAsbU Romans 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off
so that I might be grafted in."
Paul warns against the pride of a Gentile follower of Yah'shua.
NAsbU Romans 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God;
to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
NAsbU Romans 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief,
will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
A Jew who comes to know the Jewish Messiah for their salvation
does not become a Christian,
They become a "called out one", a member of the Ekklesia.
They become a Messianic Jew.
The L-rd's name ( SHEM ) is not je-zeus;
it is Yah'shua ( YHvH is my salvation )
NAsbU Romans 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Which is why you must call on His Name for salvation.
See Exod. 15:2; 2 Sam. 23:5; Job 19:25 Ps. 18:2; 19:14; 62:1, 7; 118:14 Isa. 12:2; Isa 49:6; Isa 54:8
When they came to believe in Jesus as Christ, Son of God, our Lord and Savior, they became Christians, fathers of the Catholic Church, and Saints, every one.
Jesus was considered a heretic. The Jews no more consider his teachings to be worthy of consideration or belief than they do those of Elisha ben Abuyah.
Je-zeus?
Really?
You should delete this one from your cut-and-paste queue.
It's really rather batty.
When they came to believe in Jesus as Christ, Son of God, our Lord and Savior, they became Christians, fathers of the Catholic Church, and Saints, every one.
The catholic church was started in the fourth century
One day you will come to reject the myths.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
at Nicea run by a Pagan.
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