Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: mountn man
Might try reading your Bible a little closer

Maybe you should too.

God made a covenant with the Jewish. God cannot break his covenant

God didn't break his covenant, but the people he made the covenant with did—repeatedly.

We are in the time of Gentiles, but that time is coming to a close.

That was Paul' idea, not Jesus'. Jesus says he was sent ONLY for the lost tribes of Israel and he wanted his disciples to minister ONLY to them. "Might try reading your Bible a little closer."

The Bible tells us that us gentiles were grafted in. We are not the root, but the branches

The Christian Bible claims that. The Jewish doesn't.

Paul tells us that if Jews do not continue in unbelief can be grafted back in

How can the root [the Jews] be grafted back in? What is supporting the branches? "Might try reading your Bible a little closer."

It is through Gods grace and mercy, that HE has allowed us to be grafted in

Whatever.

Christianity IS NOT a repudiation of Judaism. But Christianity is a fulfilling of Judaism

So, then why don't Christians call themselves Jews, since they practice "Judaism?" Why are churches called churches and not synagogues?

Besides, Judaism is a repudiation of Christianity. Judaism soundly rejects Jesus as God, or God's the anointed one (Messiah). Judaism, unfailingly, specifically rejects any and all Christian books and teachings.

So, we have a problem. Which is the true, legitimate Judaism? Rabbinic Judaism, or Christianity?

But most Christians don't celebrate Passover or other Jewish holidays, and yet GOD created those celebrations

If Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, as you say, then why not? Don't they know they are really "Jewish?"

And yet gentile Christians don't celebrate them, even though WE are the adopted ones, the grafted ones

Maybe it's because the Law doesn't apply to this new "Israel."

We should NEVER be arrogant in our status or views towards our Jewish brothers.

We shouldn't be arrogant towards anyone. But, the Jews are not Christian brothers in Christ, so calling them "brothers" is being arrogant towards them. Don't insult them.

God loves the Jewish people more than any other people. HE has chosen them

Funny, John says God loved the whole world. "Might try reading your Bible a little closer."

It should be with humility and thankfulness that we view ourselves, in Gods family.

What does that have to do with the topic?

9 posted on 12/27/2009 3:55:12 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies ]


To: kosta50
God made a covenant with the Jewish. God cannot break his covenant

God didn't break his covenant, but the people he made the covenant with did—repeatedly.

Israel may have broken its covenant, BUT it has no effect on God. Gods covenant is eternal.

In ancient times, before written contracts, parties of a transaction would take an animal, slice it in half, and each party walk between the halves. As they walked they would say, "May I be as this animal (split asunder) if I violate my half of the bargain." This type of contractual agreement is recorded in Genesis 15. God is pictured as entering into covenant with Abraham. The animals were split as the tradition prescribed, but amazingly only God walked between the sacrifice. Abraham was in a deep sleep at the time. God said in effect, "This transaction, this covenant, I am making is not a two-way street. I and I alone take responsibility for its fulfillment."

2 Timothy 2: 13 if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

Romans 11: 1 I say then, Did God cast off his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not cast off his people which he foreknew.

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all!

28 but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Written by Paul AFTER Christs crucifiction.

We are in the time of Gentiles, but that time is coming to a close.

That was Paul' idea, not Jesus'. Jesus says he was sent ONLY for the lost tribes of Israel and he wanted his disciples to minister ONLY to them. "Might try reading your Bible a little closer."

Luke 21: 24 and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Last I checked, Luke was written by Luke, and at this time was quoting Christ.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Last I checked Matthew quoted Christ. This passage is commonly called the Great Commission.

The Bible tells us that us gentiles were grafted in. We are not the root, but the branches

The Christian Bible claims that. The Jewish doesn't.

It doesn't matter IF the Jewish Bible says this or not. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

What DOES the Old Testament say?

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Psalm 117:1 O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

Seems the Old Testament even mentions gentiles and all nations seeking and praising God.

Paul tells us that if Jews do not continue in unbelief can be grafted back in

How can the root [the Jews] be grafted back in? What is supporting the branches? "Might try reading your Bible a little closer."

Romans 11: 17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

It is through Gods grace and mercy, that HE has allowed us to be grafted in

Whatever.

Romans 11: 17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,

19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in."

Whatever indeed.

Christianity IS NOT a repudiation of Judaism. But Christianity is a fulfilling of Judaism

So, then why don't Christians call themselves Jews, since they practice "Judaism?" Why are churches called churches and not synagogues?

Besides, Judaism is a repudiation of Christianity. Judaism soundly rejects Jesus as God, or God's the anointed one (Messiah). Judaism, unfailingly, specifically rejects any and all Christian books and teachings.

So, we have a problem. Which is the true, legitimate Judaism? Rabbinic Judaism, or Christianity?

I think this is pretty obvious, and your just looking for an argument.

Christians are called Christians because we believe Jesus is the Christ the Messiah. Todays Jews, the Non-Messianic Jews, do not believe Jesus was the Messiah, but Messianic Jews do. They are Christians, because the believe Jesus is the Christ. They also practice Judaism, because REAL Judaism never ended with Jesus, it continued.

The Apostles didn't stop celebrating Jewish festivals, or denied their Jewishness. Why should Gentile Christians?

Judaism DOES NOT reject Christ, it points TO Christ.

The prophecies of the Old Testament point to a coming Messiah. Messianic Jews believe Jesus is the fulfilment of that prophecy. Non Messianic Jews do not. When talking about Judaism its important to know and note the difference.

But most Christians don't celebrate Passover or other Jewish holidays, and yet GOD created those celebrations

If Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, as you say, then why not? Don't they know they are really "Jewish?"

Its important to understand, Yes, the Jewish holidays, are feasts commanded by God. But instead of looking at these simply as Laws that must be obeyed or observed, we should see them as they REALLY ARE.

These are Celebrations. Feasts. Parties.

God commanded HIS people to PARTAAY!!!

These Celebrations are to celebrate what God has done for the people of Israel. They are to be a continual reminder to the people OF WHAT God has done, BUT ALSO who Israel is to God.

As men and women we celebrate wedding anniversaries. Throughout the Bible God describes his people as his bride, and Christ as the bride groom. Imagine a wife FORGETTING or DISREGARDING her wedding anniversary, how would her husband feel? Israels festivals are like anniversaries. God is a God who wants to be loved and cherished. To be remembered. To be known for his gifts and blessings.

As a gentile believer I wasn't brought up celebrating the Jewish holidays. As I get older, I think its something I need to look into. Not as a law, but as a celebration of God, and what he has done.

And yet gentile Christians don't celebrate them, even though WE are the adopted ones, the grafted ones

Maybe it's because the Law doesn't apply to this new "Israel."

We should NEVER be arrogant in our status or views towards our Jewish brothers.

We shouldn't be arrogant towards anyone. But, the Jews are not Christian brothers in Christ, so calling them "brothers" is being arrogant towards them. Don't insult them.

God loves the Jewish people more than any other people. HE has chosen them

Funny, John says God loved the whole world. "Might try reading your Bible a little closer."

It should be with humility and thankfulness that we view ourselves, in Gods family.

What does that have to do with the topic?

As far as the rest of your comments, I think I've already dealt with them in one form or another, and no need to be redundant. I think ALL of Romans 11 is great for truely understanding how jews and gentiles fit into Christianity. Its something I always seem to learn more from every time I read it.

17 posted on 12/27/2009 7:56:02 AM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies ]

To: kosta50

It is true that the universality of Christianity is at odds with any ongoing claim of special favor for groups embracing religious paths that don’t include Christ.


93 posted on 12/31/2009 3:41:10 PM PST by Dr. North
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson