Posted on 12/30/2009 12:56:16 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
"I’m not troubled in my heart about your self-esteem. I’m not troubled in my heart about whether or not you feel good about yourself, whether or not life is turning out like you want it to turn out, or whether or not your checkbook is balanced. There’s only one thing that gave me a sleepless night. There’s only one thing that troubled me all throughout the morning..."
"Do you realize how much love it takes for me to stand before 5,000 people and tell you that that American Christianity is almost totally wrong?"
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
What error???? Because I wear clothes he( Washer) doesn’t approve of? Because I listen to music that he (Washer) doesn’t approve of? This man is preaching legalism pure and simple.
wintertime,
Washer believes and says those exact things and his life, family, and work are a reflection of that. He is a pastor and evangelist so his work and committments extend beyond where God calls most other people to with regard to things like church leadership and mission work. This video is an excerpt from just one of his many sermons and was geared toward a specific audience of young people—though it’s obviously applicable to all ages.
I’ve seen some of Washer’s sermons on video and he is not at all arrogant. He is simply grieved by the low level American Christianity has fallen to and fears that millions who think they are “Christians” and go to church are going to spend eternity in Hell, because they have been sold a false Gospel that does not include repentance from sin or living a life any different from the unsaved.
Washer is rightfully grieved and frightened by the “repeat this simple prayer and then go on behaving the same way you always did” version of Christianity that has taken over way too many of our churches, and is considered to be normal by the masses of those claiming to be “Christians” these days.
You mean like Jimmy Swaggert???
Or perhaps Paul Washer who is busy telling people whom God will and will not condemn
As one of my favorite poets put it, Christ died to FREE us from sin, not to indulge in it.
As far as clothing goes, the Bible reminds believers that we are owned by Christ, bought with his very blood. Therefore we are to honor him with our bodies, and our bodies are to be a temple of the Holy Spirit. Satan would obviously rather have us degrade our bodies and make us pretend as if Christ's sacrifice counts for nothing.
Our culture drinks sin down as if it were water--as if Christ died in vain. If we truly love Christ, we would love the things of God and stay away from the things he died to save us from.
This does NOT mean we are to live in church box and sing hymns all day...Whether it's food or music or fashion, they all exist for our enjoyment--NOT our abuse. We should approach the world with great discernment and be a reflection of Christ in all we do and say--and this should make us starkly contrasted to our godless culture.
"And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise." ~ Phllippians 4
No, he is saying that those who TRULY believe in Christ will be saved AND as a result they will seek to lead holy lives.
Saying you believe in Christ (which is pretty much all popular “Christianity” asks of “converts”, these days) and actually believing in Him are very different things.
There needs to be a balance in the preaching and teaching of God’s word. We must be careful to remember we are saved by faith, not by works, but at the same time, we must not think that some shallow, insincere or half-sincere profession of faith will result in salvation.
If one is not seeking to lead a holy life and is not grieved by his sins, if he continues practicing the same sinful ways he always did and no change in behavior is happening, there is no reason for that person to believe he has a true faith in Christ and has been saved.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ - Matthew 7:21-23
You and the rest of the Pharisees of the modern day may well wonder when Jesus returns and you are part of his elect. You presume to know the mind of God and of whom He approves. That is out and out blasphemy
“he calls it the greatest heresy.”
I think the heresy is his. He’s saying you have do to it “the right way”, which is HIS way. That’s adding requirements to the single requirement. He’s flat wrong. I understand what he’s trying to say, but he’s flat wrong as to its effect on a person’s salvation.
Colonel, USAFR
To be fair, I don’t think that CondaleezaProtege is meaning to condemn anyone. But Jesus said that “by their fruits you will know them”.
When teaching on 1 John (a great book that addresses some of these very issues) I used the illustration of a guy I worked with. He claimed to be a devout Christian. Yet every night he would hit the strip clubs, call women the most degrading names, and have casual sex and even participate in orgies.
His life showed no fruits other than warming a seat at Church every Sunday. I wasn’t a Christian at that point (pretty much atheist) but I could see that he was a hypocrite because we’d call him on it, and he didn’t think it was a big deal. After all, God would forgive him! 1 John is full of warnings against that behavior.
So much of the American Church is full of this. BUT, remember — so was the early church!!!
Otherwise Paul wouldn’t have written his epistles (Oh you foolish Galatians, etc.!). Jesus wouldn’t have had to rebuke a few churches in Revelation, etc.
I think a Christian should always be mindful of the Greatest Commandment. If you are, you will naturally want to do the things that please Him and to discover what things do please Him and which things He hates. And that’s what the scriptures are for.
Let’s all just try to run hard after Him! Down with Legalism! Up with PLEASING God!
Notice also that the first verse says:
to all who believe...he has given the right to become God's children
He does not say you are a child of God simply by saying once that you believe. It is a becoming, a process, a path which you must stay on, and if you do, it will be evident in your life.
Hypocrites will face their Maker at the appropriate time. If I love the Lord my God with all my heart and all my soul and love my neighbor as myself then I probab;y will have led a life that has some meaning to it. but I am not under the judgement of the Law nor any other human. The whited scepulcres will have their day to explain their righteousness ( or lack there of).
And it wasn’t Jesus who said by their fruits it was in fact James.
Jesus in Matthew 7:16, “By their fruit you will recognize them.”
In one of the most chilling statements in the New Testament it ends with:
“22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
And yes, hypocrites will face their Maker. However, we have a responsibility to tell them that in love they may not actually be Saved when they think they are because they said a quick prayer without actually putting their trust IN Christ.
Those who have put their trust in Christ are no longer under judgement, and do not have to worry about the Law. The real question is — have some who profess to have put their trust in Christ actually done it?
It doesn’t matter to me really ... it matters to them, and loving my neighbor as myself involves being concerned about whether they are deceiving themselves and if they are going to meet their Maker some day and find out that He says, “Depart from me, you evildoer!”
I understand his point, I guess I don’t like how he’s making it - I don’t like his assuming he knows who is going to hell...he doesn’t.
As I said, living to reflect the light Jesus Christ to a dark and lost word, does NOT mean we are to stay cooped up in a church box and sing hymns all day...As Christ reminds us, lamps are not meant to be hidden but put on a lampstead to give light to the whole room—Christians are to be like a shining bright-lit city on a hill. That being said, we are called to change the world—not have the world change us.
Whether it’s food or music or fashion or movies— they ALL exist for our enjoyment—NOT our abuse. There is nothing wrong with looking stylish or enjoying secular music or dancing—but things should raise a red flag when we are indulging in things that directly insult God or violate the faith. Unfortunately today, the majority of mainstream stuff blatantly insults God rather than expresses any real artistic merit. I mean turn on the radio to the latest top 40 song, listen to the lyrics, and you’ll know what I mean.
Don’t take my word for it though. Take Jay Z’s. His song “Empire State of Mind” (featuring Alicia Keys) currently the #1 song on Billboard right now, and *literally* contains the following lyrics in the third verse:
“Hail Mary to the city, you’re a virgin. And JESUS CAN’T SAVE YOU, life starts when the church ends.” ~ Jay Z
This is the #1 song in the country right now, a country where over 85% of people identify themselves as Christians...
We'll see if Paul Washer is similarly exposed. In the meantime, I watched the video and heard him say nothing that was in opposition to Scripture. Now that doesn't mean that what he said will not be offensive to some people- Jesus Christ and His word always has made many, many people very angry. However, just because the principles God gave Christians about the way we should live our lives as His children and, as He called us, "a peculiar people", angers some people doesn't mean that Paul Washer is wrong in what he said.
And it doesn't put him on the same level as Jimmy Swaggart.
Sorry I realize I wanted to clarify...something.
I said:
“There is nothing wrong with looking stylish or enjoying secular music or dancing—but things should raise a red flag when we are indulging in things that directly insult God or violate the faith.” — I don’t think “violating the faith” is the best way to put it, what I meant was, it does not elevate Christ nor does it reflect how much we love and value Him. How are unbelievers going to be curious about Christ if we live as if he means nothing to us?
Then I mention “the majority of mainstream stuff blatantly insults God.” The #1 song in the country right now “Empire State of Mind” by Jay Z and Alicia Keys has these lyrics in the 3rd verse:
“Hail Mary to the city you’re a virgin. And JESUS CAN’T SAVE YOU, life starts when the church ends.” ~ Jay Z
#1 song in a so called Christian country. You can bet people listen to and sing along to this song on their way TO church.
So no, music—including rap music is not inherently bad At all. There is something wrong though if we call ourselves Christians yet CHRIST means absolutely nothing to us. Shouldn’t we be more excited about singing about HIM, rapping about HIM, talking about HIM? Christ didn’t come to the world to give us rules to follow, he gave us himself so we can know and enjoy God more fully. He is the only thing of any real value in this world. But how can we enjoy and glorify Him if we think he’s boring or not as worth our attention as the latest TV show?
There is something wrong if we call ourselves believers but go on acting as if He doesn’t exist and never died for us. That’s what Paul Washer is talking about.
John Piper sums it up way better than I can
"Catch on to the affectional nature of Christianity of conversion. It’s not merely a decision to believe a set of facts but its a heart treasuring Christ and His glory more than football, sex, power, money… You gotta make this an issue Sunday after Sunday so that they feel scared that they’re not saved. You know, I think some pastors are so afraid that someone might walk up to them at the end of the sermon and say “You really jostled my assurance this morning”. If we don’t jostle people’s assurance when they’re not saved, we send them to hell! We must preach in such a way and ask “What does your heart say about Christ?” Pastors lets do this…lets help our people be saved! ~ John Piper
you said:
"And it wasn’t Jesus who said by their fruits it was in fact James."
(Matthew 7:18-20) "A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions. ~ Jesus Christ
"You have forgotten you first love." ~ Revelations 2:4
What, pray tell, is this nonsense? Last I knew, Romania was an Orthodox Christian country and Peru a Roman Catholic one, or don't Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism count as Christian in your American Protestant world? What would Christian missionaries be doing there, peddling a foreign, American heresy perhaps? You know, maybe its the embrace of so many ancient heresies by Protestant ecclesial groups here in America which has brought this country to the state it is in!
Kolokotronis,
You should respond with your opinions after watching his open-air preaching in Peru. Washer goes knowing that the majority of Peruvians are Catholics who are not truly saved—the same way majority of Americans are Protestants who are not truly saved. LABELS DO NOT MEAN ANYTHING:
Ted Kennedy perpetuated abortion in this country, and he was “Catholic.” (He did every sacrament, went to church every Sunday.) Vladimir Putin was in the KGB and has dissenters jailed and killed under his orders. Putin is devout “Russian Orthodox.” Barack Obama says he’s Christian. Hillary Clinton says she’s Methodist. Britney Spears is Baptist!
The church you go to, wearing a cross on your neck, having pretty statues of angels in your house, and what water you were splashed with as a baby or the oil at confirmation say nothing of whether you truly have repented of your sin come to saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Whether you truly have new life in Jesus Christ, whether you know him and truly understand what He did on the Cross and whether you are living in light of that. Whether you understand what the BIBLE says about sin, about faith. Whether you are truly walking with the Lord.
Video of Paul Washer preaching to Catholics in a Peruvian park. (If you are interested)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYLUpHQaiE
The level of poaching is elevated to the various groups. There is a group here in the city that is a clone of a megachurch in Chicago that has a ‘mission’ to Romania. They have a church and mission and they basically bribe the people to believe in this new faith. One of my engineers went there last year. It is entirely bribes and facilities. He spoke nicely of the Orthodox influence, but had the typical American superiority to the entire Faith.
I posted recently about the various heresies that the Protestants now embrace. Mostly met by uncomprehending silence.
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