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LDS writer tackles little-known Book of Mormon character
Ogden Standard-Examiner ^ | Jan. 29, 2010 | JaNae Francis

Posted on 01/30/2010 6:44:25 PM PST by Colofornian

KAYSVILLE -- A first novel for K.C. Grant, 39, has landed this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints author success in just a few weeks since its release.

"Abish: Daughter of God" (Covenant, $16.95) already has scored a ranking in the top six for books sold at Deseret Book and Grant said a few Deseret Book stores already have sold out of her novel.

"It's fun to have a first novel so well received," said the Kaysville homemaker. "It gives me an inspiration to keep on writing."

Grant enjoyed a successful book signing last weekend in Centerville and has another scheduled for today from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. at Seagull Book in Layton at 448 W. Antelope Drive.

The novel is a mixture of fiction and fact, based on a short account of a woman in Alma, Chapter 19 who did not faint when others were overcome by the Holy Spirit because she had been converted to gospel teachings earlier in her life.

"I think like a lot of LDS people who read the Book of Mormon," Grant said. "Abish is one of only three women mentioned by name in the Book of Mormon and yet there is very little said about her. I wanted to know more about her and possibly other people would too."

(Excerpt) Read more at standard.net ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; bookofmormon; christian; lds; mormon; women
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To: Vendome

When I post at MY local time; it shows up at YOUR place with your LOCAL TIME being used.

I guess one needs to check the homepage of the poster to figure the offset...


151 posted on 02/01/2010 3:07:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
Great, big, smelly, destructive, aloof, not milkable....

Great,
SMALL,
not so stinky,
they like to CLIMB up on things for a better view (and play king/queen of the box, woodepile, rock pile, stump, car, wire spool, table, wagon, doghouse, swingset),
deep in thought,
I guess I could - but they's only 'bout the size of my little finger.


why do you own them again???

Is it just because they are cute?

Yeah - and they keep some of the weeds down.

152 posted on 02/01/2010 3:13:21 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie; mrreaganaut

Mrreaganaut wants to get my mother a goat to help with the “lawnmowing” and so he can tell people “I got my mother-in-laws goat”.

:)


153 posted on 02/01/2010 4:07:37 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: reaganaut

Good thought; but it won’t work.

SHEEP are lawn mowers - they GRAZE.

Goats are TREE TRIMMERS - they BROWSE. (And they’ll KILL yer trees if they like the bark! 4 guys can ruin one in about an hour!)


154 posted on 02/01/2010 5:57:55 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Sheep not goats - got it.

singing:

“sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell” by Cake.


155 posted on 02/01/2010 6:25:02 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: reaganaut

“When I began to study and had to be very specific, I thought either Joseph Smith was a verifiable genius or it had to be inspired.”

I believe both are true.


156 posted on 02/01/2010 6:34:12 PM PST by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Saundra Duffy

Of course you do...


157 posted on 02/01/2010 7:02:00 PM PST by ejonesie22
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To: Saundra Duffy

What, you didn’t “KNOW” that JS was a “genius”? I thought all lds “KNEW” the church was true, therefore they had to “KNOW” the facts of the foundation of the church, right?

Of course he’s a genius, look at the many millions who are still under the influence of his “genius”.

There have been many geniuses in this world, not all of them good. JS falls into that category. He used his so-called “genius” for nefarious deeds.


158 posted on 02/01/2010 7:50:39 PM PST by SZonian (I see people who claim they are victims of "hatred" and say we should be more "productive".)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Colofornian; colorcountry; T Minus Four; Vendome; Elsie; ejonesie22; Godzilla; ...

I will give you a genius and charismatic and perhaps even inspired but the inspiration certainly was not of God. God would not inspire someone to contradict Him. God does not throw out spiritual “red herrings.”

The tales in the Book Of Mormon are consistent with common views and beliefs of Indians at the time. He plagiarized entire chapters of the Bible INCLUDING WORDS NOT CONTAINED IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES but put in for clarification by the translators of the KJV.

The Book of Mormon is a amalgamation of current folklore, biblical texts, and quite possibly a couple of contemporary fictional accounts.

It is anything but scripture.


159 posted on 02/01/2010 7:58:42 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: SZonian; Saundra Duffy

There have been many geniuses in this world, not all of them good. JS falls into that category.

- - - - - - - - -
So does Hitler.


160 posted on 02/01/2010 7:59:37 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: reaganaut

Yep, that’s only one answer to open-ended statement.

There are many, many more.

Jim Jones anyone? Stalin? Mao? Mohammed?

SZ


161 posted on 02/01/2010 8:08:46 PM PST by SZonian (I see people who claim they are victims of "hatred" and say we should be more "productive".)
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To: SZonian; Saundra Duffy

And people knew their names for good as well as evil. Just because something thinks these people were good, it does not make them any less evil or their fruits any less rotten.


162 posted on 02/01/2010 8:15:06 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: Saundra Duffy
“When I began to study and had to be very specific, I thought either Joseph Smith was a verifiable genius or it had to be inspired.”

Study some more and you'll learn that JS was a verifiable conman and had a WILD imagination - of which his MOTHER had testified!

163 posted on 02/02/2010 4:46:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
And people knew their names for good as well as evil.

OF COURSE!!!

HOW you gonna get any followers if they don't?


164 posted on 02/02/2010 4:51:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Don’t tell me you have something against St. Mel!

ONOZ!!!


165 posted on 02/02/2010 9:41:10 AM PST by mrreaganaut (Long ago when men cursed and beat the ground with sticks, it was witchcraft. Today, it's golf.)
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To: Elsie

Why isnt Joey Smith’s pic in # 164 ???


166 posted on 02/02/2010 11:43:21 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

He was in the WORDS!


167 posted on 02/02/2010 11:55:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy; reaganaut

Reaganaut: I thought either Joseph Smith was a verifiable genius or it had to be inspired.”

SD: I believe both are true.
_________________________________________________________

Well, Saundra, Joey Smith was quite a guy to come up with those lines to seduce the unwilling girls...

Angels with flaming swords, would kill Joey if the girl didnt have illicit sex with him...

The mormon god told him she must or else..

If she didnt have illicit sex with Joey she wouldnt go to the mormon afterlife...

If she didnt have sex with him her parents wouldnt go to the mormon after life...

and of course as Joey Smith himself decided that he would be the one who lets mormons into the mormon after life and decides who goes or not... that was quite a stroke of “genius” on his part..

Hugh Hefner could take lessons...

D&C 132 was the original Playboy c 1830...

Was Joey “inspired” ???

Of course he was...

Sexual deviants and conmen and bank scam artists usually are..

Joey Smith had to always stay one step in front of the law,

one reason beyond the people he scammed and stole from with his hair brained money making schemes..be they “glass looking” for Spanish gold with the same rock from his hat that he used to so called “write” the book of mormon..

and one excuse in front of the unwilling virgins he was attempting to beguile into his or her bed...whether he had to go to the exasperating extreme (in his mind) of pretending to “marry” her in secret using one of his buddies as a phony “marrying man”..

Yeah ol Bro Joe was quite the lad...


168 posted on 02/02/2010 12:14:27 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana; Saundra Duffy

Nana, “thought either Joseph Smith was a verifiable genius or it had to be inspired.” was NOT me. Not sure where Saundra got that quote, but the only inspiration JS had, IMO, was satanic.


169 posted on 02/02/2010 1:21:16 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: reaganaut; Tennessee Nana; Saundra Duffy

smith was verifiable - but it wasn’t any ‘genius’ thats for sure.


170 posted on 02/02/2010 1:24:35 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: reaganaut; saundra

Oh sorry...

I thought it was from an earlier post of yours where you had mentioned what you had thought when you were LDS...

It seemed like Saundra was quoting you...

Either way, I know that now you dont believe Joey Smith was a genius or inspired...by the Biblical God that is...

Joey Smith was inspired by the evil genius of Satan...

Who BTW has never been my brother...


171 posted on 02/02/2010 1:33:23 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

;) love ya, nana.


172 posted on 02/02/2010 1:39:36 PM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: reaganaut

I love you too, sweetie

(((((HUGS)))))

:)


173 posted on 02/02/2010 1:45:59 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: T Minus Four; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
Sorry, I didn't intend to hijack the thread but I was a catholic for almost 50 years before I was saved by the grace of God and became a Christian, so it filters my response to any false doctrine.
What denomination did you switch to?
174 posted on 02/02/2010 9:12:04 PM PST by narses ("lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi")
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To: narses

I don’t want any posts from you. Take me off your list, whatever it is.


175 posted on 02/02/2010 9:26:39 PM PST by adc (Rush '12All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently oppos)
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To: Elsie; T Minus Four
perhaps SOMEONE will bite and turn this into a Catholic BASHING thread with you!

Protestants protest the Catholic Church. They do little else. So, good bet.

176 posted on 02/02/2010 9:27:38 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: SZonian

No I’m not complex.


177 posted on 02/02/2010 10:16:44 PM PST by BlueMoose
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$ 2.00


178 posted on 02/02/2010 10:19:33 PM PST by BlueMoose
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To: narses
"Sorry, I didn't intend to hijack the thread but I was a catholic for almost 50 years before I was saved by the grace of God and became a Christian, so it filters my response to any false doctrine. What denomination did you switch to?"

See, Jesus is God, and Jesus founded the Catholic Church. He was the first convert.

Sorry that you never understood the Church. Hope you find the right road back.

179 posted on 02/02/2010 11:11:34 PM PST by NoRedTape
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To: adc

You asked to be on my list, I added you. You want off, you are. Bye.


180 posted on 02/02/2010 11:44:02 PM PST by narses ("lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi")
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To: T Minus Four
Too many people confuse our love for God's gifts that are special to us. Like the amazing example He gave of a "perfect woman" in Jesus' mother. We believe Mary to be "the woman clothed with the sun," the one who God said would crush the head of the serpent in Gen. 3:15. Because she is such a danger to satan, satan tried to kill her even after the Savior was born (Rev. 12:13). The angel Gabriel called Mary, "full of Grace", and we do the same.

She is the spiritual mother of all Christians who continues to glorify God in our spiritual battles.

Catholics know that to God, the most important aspect of our Christianity is love. Our love for God, and his gifts to us, should not be confused with "veneration". I hope your fear of veneration, doesn't interfere with your love.

Catholics clearly know it is highly offensive to God to worship for example "Pachamama" (mother earth) etc. We hold those dedicated to God, and those who gave testimony for God, in high esteem. That doesn't mean we worship them. We ask them to pray for us, just like you would a loved one who passed away. Our souls are eternal and we believe that those who died for God continue the spiritual battle fighting for God's kingdom.

As an example, I enjoy reading Joyce Meyer, I would share her example and testimony with anyone it would benefit. If after everything she has done, died for her faith, I believe she would be worthy of recognition and honor in our Christian history. In the Catholic church, her life work and testimony, would possible qualify for sainthood. There are people's lives she has saved, and hearts she has touched. Those people may not know her personally but they are still gratefull and may even love her as a spiritual sister. She gave testimony of her faith to others, and honoring her, continues that testimony. That doesn't mean we worship her.

Speaking of the talented Joyce Meyer, did her words all come directly from the bible? NO - For Catholics, that doesn't mean what she has written worthless.

For those that reject the centuries of beautiful biblical philosophy from early and recent Catholics because they are not "Scripture" only, I'm sure they are intellectually honest enough to apply the same standards which would reject the writings of Joyce Meyer, right?

181 posted on 02/03/2010 2:41:41 AM PST by mgist
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To: reaganaut
 
Not sure where Saundra got that quote, but the only inspiration JS had, IMO, was satanic.
 
WhereEVER would you get  THAT   idea???


KJV
 Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
 
 
 
ANYBODY???
 
Like this fine looking fellow???
 
 
 
 
 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
 13.  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 15.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
 

Like THESE guys??
 
 
 
 
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
 
 


 
Ephesians 2:1-2 
1.  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


 
1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
 
2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
 
2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

182 posted on 02/03/2010 5:35:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: annalex
They do little else.

All righty then!

183 posted on 02/03/2010 5:36:59 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: NoRedTape
See, Jesus is God, and Jesus founded the Catholic Church. He was the first convert.

All righty then!!

184 posted on 02/03/2010 5:37:57 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mgist
We believe Mary to be "the woman clothed with the sun,"
the one who God said would crush the head of the serpent in Gen. 3:15.

Did Mary then get sore feet?

 

 
God informs the serpent he will put enmity between the serpent and the woman. This is reinforced by the second part of the sentence, “between your offspring and hers.” The Hebrew word זֶרַע - zera - is the same for “offspring” and “seed”, accounting for the difference in English translations, but in both cases the word is masculine.

The second sentence begins with a personal pronoun.
The word may refer either to the “woman”, or may refer to the offspring or seed of the woman.
Thus the beginning of the second part of Genesis 3:15 is translated primarily in two ways.
Both the Latin Vulgate and the Douay-Rheims translations convey this passage as “she will crush your head, while you strike at his heel “...
    whereas the King James version, the Revised Standard Version, and the NIV read “he will crush your head...”
 
In view of the epicene personal pronoun (one form to indicate both male and female sex) as described above, both are correct.
 
"I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
He/She will crush your head,
while you strike at his heel."
Genesis 3:15

185 posted on 02/03/2010 5:48:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: narses; 4mer Liberal; colorcountry; Godzilla; greyfoxx39; reaganaut
What denomination did you switch to?

If you have ask to that, I don't think you'll be able to understand my answer.

I am not "a denomination". I am a Christian. I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I am a student of the bible.

I fellowship and worship at a Baptist Church (and was publically baptised there) but I do not consider myself "a Baptist". Anywhere there are gathered Bible-believing Christians, there I belong.

If my place of worship begins to veer away from the truths in the bible, I am out the door. Well ok, first I would go to the leadership and state my concerns. Our pastor has ruefully admitted that members of the church have not hesitated to do so in the past:-)

We are not robots and we submit to the authority of God, not other humans.

186 posted on 02/03/2010 6:50:26 AM PST by T Minus Four (Donate to Haiti now and sponsor a Haitian child for the long term - Worldvision.com)
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To: T Minus Four
Anywhere there are gathered Bible-believing Christians, there I belong.

AMEN!!!

187 posted on 02/03/2010 7:38:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Hey! 
 
We Mormons believe in the Bible, too!!
 
As long as it's translated CORRECTLY...)

188 posted on 02/03/2010 7:40:00 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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Comment #189 Removed by Moderator

To: SZonian

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


190 posted on 02/03/2010 8:07:40 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator
Would this post be considered a form of "making it personal"?

To: SZonian

Your head has been spinning for years.

115 posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:52:45 PM by BlueMoose

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I requested clarification from BM numerous times only to get a smartass reply.

I suspect that the line that differentiates what is personal to whom is pretty thin? Do I get to determine what is "making it personal" or is that judgement reserved solely for the RM?

Does this mean that we are to hit the "abuse" button every time because we feel we are offended, kind of like "squealing to teacher"?

I will make a concerted effort not to cross the line again, but will make no guarantees about replies to posters such as that who fire the first shot. I'll take "my medicine" from the RM's if need be, but I will not grant a "free pass" to the likes of them.

SZ

191 posted on 02/03/2010 8:55:53 AM PST by SZonian (I see people who claim they are victims of "hatred" and say we should be more "productive".)
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To: T Minus Four

I am not “a denomination”. I am a Christian. I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I am a student of the bible.

- - - - - -
Far to many people who claim Christ think that it is all about a denomination.

Christ is outside denominational differences.


192 posted on 02/03/2010 9:20:54 AM PST by reaganaut (It's futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance)
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To: SZonian; BlueMoose
From my profile page: "If the other guy in the dispute was given a warning, consider yourself warned as well."

The principle is that two wrongs do not make a right.

193 posted on 02/03/2010 10:22:28 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Thanks, your last paragraph should be at the top of your page. It’s a humble, yet prescient reminder.

FRegards,
SZ


194 posted on 02/03/2010 10:38:59 AM PST by SZonian (I see people who claim they are victims of "hatred" and say we should be more "productive".)
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To: Saundra Duffy; reaganaut
“When I began to study and had to be very specific, I thought either Joseph Smith was a verifiable genius or it had to be inspired.”

I believe both are true. [SD]

Well both are "true" (to a degree): I mean if I plagiarized portions of the Bible, that which were exact quotations of the Bible would still be inspired! (And Smith copied thousands & thousands of words line by line from the Bible...he paraphrased thousands of other words from Biblical phrases...sometimes even leaving in italicized notes added by KJV translators that weren't in the original Hebrew text of the book of Isaiah)

As for the "genius" label, Joseph Smith's mom already knew he was an ingenius story teller by the time he was 17!

"During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of the continent, their dress, mode of traveling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them. On the twenty-second of September, 1824, Joseph again visited the place where he found the plates the year previous; and supporting at this time that the only thing required, in order to possess them until the time for their translation, was to be able to keep the commandments of God...he fully expected to carry them home with him. (Lucy Mack Smith, edited by Preston Nibley, History of Joseph Smith, p. 83, Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, 1958)

What Mormons often miss in this account is that Lucy Mack Smith was saying Joseph gave these storied details before he ever even "interpreted" these gold plates. [The context of her story is that Smith is age 17 & he's about to retrieve the gold plates again a year after being given them...and he's yet to interpret them]. A lot of Smith's "make-up ability" was already there; plus was no doubt influenced by other author(s) of his era -- all part of his active, imaginative mind!

195 posted on 02/03/2010 12:18:49 PM PST by Colofornian (As the Lds once were, the fLDS are; as the fLDS are, the LDS will become.)
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To: T Minus Four

“We are not robots and we submit to the authority of God, not other humans.”

Did not Our Lord appoint MEN as Apostles? Did they not have HIS authority on earth?


196 posted on 02/03/2010 7:04:18 PM PST by narses ("lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi")
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To: SZonian

Mormons are good people. They are not God’s people! Fella, you need the nap!


197 posted on 02/20/2010 9:43:45 PM PST by Doctor Don
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To: Doctor Don

You were the one yawning, LOL!

Anyway, thanks for bumping the thread.

FRegards,
SZ


198 posted on 02/21/2010 1:57:19 PM PST by SZonian (There are times when we have to tell loved ones truths that hurt. We do so because we care for them.)
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