THE LORD SHOWED ABRAHAM THE STARS -Mormon- (OPEN)

Pearl of Great Price Student Manual LDS ^

[greyfoxx39]

ABRAHAM 3:1–17
THE LORD SHOWED ABRAHAM THE STARS

 

Abraham 3:1 . What Is the Urim and Thummim?

Urim and thummim come from Hebrew words meaning “lights” and “perfections.” The title Urim and Thummim was given to an instrument the Lord prepared to assist man in obtaining revelation and in translating languages. The earliest use of the Urim and Thummim mentioned in the scriptures is associated with the brother of Jared (see Ether 3:21–28 ).

The Prophet Joseph Smith was given the Urim and Thummim that had previously been in the possession of the brother of Jared (see D&C 17:1 ). The Prophet described them as being “two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim” ( Joseph Smith—History 1:35 ).

The scriptures reveal that there were more than one Urim and Thummim. While the prophets of the Book of Mormon were using one set of stones (see Omni 1:20–21 ; Mosiah 8:13–19 ; 21:26–28 ; 28:11–20 ), the prophets of the Old Testament were using another (see Exodus 28:30 ; Numbers 27:21 ; Deuteronomy 33:8 ; 1 Samuel 28:6 ; Ezra 2:63 ).

Abraham 3:2–16 . The Name of the Great One Is Kolob

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Lord made known to him the following facts: That Kolob is the first creation, and is nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. It is the first in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. This measurement is according to celestial time. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which by the Egyptians was called Jah-oh-eh. Oliblish, so called by the Egyptians, stands next to Kolob in the grand governing creation near the celestial, or place where God resides. This great star is also a governing star and is equal to Kolob in its revolutions and in its measuring of time. Other grand governing stars were also revealed to Abraham” ( Man: His Origin and Destiny [1954], 461.)

Abraham 3:2–10, 16–17 . Other Governing Stars

Abraham learned that, like Kolob, there were other stars that were “very great,” and that these great stars were governing stars (see Abraham 3:2–3 ). The Lord taught Abraham about “the set time of all the stars” ( v. 10 ; see also vv. 4–9 ). Abraham also learned that there are other governing stars located nearer to Kolob and that they rotate more slowly, or “longer,” than many other stars (but not more slowly than Kolob).

Abraham 3:3–4 . “The Same Order as That upon Which Thou Standest”

The Lord’s teachings about stars and planets helped Abraham understand more about this earth and its relationship to Kolob. For example, he taught Abraham that one day on Kolob was equal to one thousand years of time on our earth (see Abraham 3:4 ).

Abraham 3:5–7 . The Measurement of Time May Vary

“Abraham learned that bodies in space have different periods of revolution and that they move in their own time frames of reference ( Abr. 3:4 ). Each planet, or star, operates according to a time base which is set by its location from a central, governing body. . . .

“To further clarify, let us consider a moon explorer who is faced with an extended stay on the moon’s surface. After a while, he finds it more convenient to redefine his time base in terms of the sun’s motion across the moon sky (his new environment). Following the method he remembers from his experiences on earth (the old environment), he defines the moon day as beginning when the sun rises at one place on the horizon and ending when the sun sets on the opposite horizon. . . .

“Long after the moon days, months and years are well established for the intrepid moon voyager, he compares his moon system to the earthly calendar. He finds that one full moon day (complete rotation) corresponds to approximately 29 earth days. . . . The moon observer agrees that his day passes much slower than the days that are reckoned on the earth” (Fred Holmstrom, “Astronomy and the Book of Abraham,” Sidney B. Sperry Symposium, 1982: The Pearl of Great Price [1982], 110–11).

Abraham 3:13 . The Lord Knows All of His Creations

The Lord identified by name several of the planets or stars in His creations. Speaking of His numerous and marvelous works, the Lord said:

“There are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. . . .

“. . . The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine” ( Moses 1:35, 37 ).

Abraham 3:14 . “I Will Multiply Thee, and Thy Seed after Thee”

The Lord fulfilled His promise to Abraham regarding his posterity, for many billions of people have been born on this earth who can consider themselves his children. The promise of great posterity applies to all the faithful. Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, when he was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, taught:

“The children of Abraham, if they will keep the covenant as they receive it in the house of the Lord, shall, as Abraham their father, continue on through all eternity to increase, and there shall be no end to their posterity. In this way the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are extended to them, and they become partakers to the fullest extent. For there is to be a continuation of the ‘seeds forever’ among those who receive exaltation in the kingdom of God” ( The Way to Perfection, 96).

Abraham 3:16–17 . Stars Differ in Greatness

Abraham learned that wherever there are two stars one will be greater than the other, and that there are other stars greater than those two, until Kolob, which is the greatest of all. He learned that it is not size that makes one star or planet greater than another, but rather its proximity to Kolob. So it is with the children of God—their greatness and glory will depend upon their proximity to the Creator, Jesus Christ, who is “nearest unto the throne of God,” “the great one,” “the first creation,” and is “set to govern all those which belong to the same order.” Thus the great star, Kolob, is a symbol of Jesus Christ.

Abraham 3:17 . The Perfections of the Lord God

God sees to completion the actual accomplishment of everything that He takes into His heart. How different this is from the nature of mankind. The Lord explained:

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. . . .

“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts” ( Isaiah 55:8–9 ).

[greyfoxx39]

Disclaimer: I am former LDS and "anti" mormonism. I post articles from official mormon sources that often relate to current discussions taking place on the forum to provide a means for open discussion in the Religion forum.

 

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[greyfoxx39]

Ping

[greyfoxx39]

Chances are that Mitt Romney believes all this.

[svcw]

I am sorry I can not comment on this stupidity, I might say something that would be offensive to lds people.

[wendy1946]

Chances are that Mitt Romney believes all this.

As stupid as any of that might sound, it is nonetheless not remotely close to being AS stupid as evolution(ism); in other words, it does not require an infinite sequence of zero probability events in order to happen.

[wendy1946]

To put it another way, you could devise a new religion by taking the single stupidest doctrine from all existing religions, and what you ended up with would still not be AS stupid as evolution. The LDS faith obviously would be able to make a fairly large contribution to such a concocted new religion...

[chichipow]

Thank you, very good.

[chichipow]

BTW, doesn’t Xemu summer at Kolob?

[Colofornian]

I've got my "three-pack" [Lds "scriptures" minus the Bible] right here...1979 version...Right after starting Abraham chapter 3, the Lds church did a two-page injection for "A Facsimile from the Book of Abraham" "No. 2"

The facsimile is numbered, and the next page over provides a Joseph Smith explanation of what each area represents. (Of course, with 12 of these areas, Joseph claimed they "ought not to be revealed at the present time" or "will be given in the own due time of the Lord" or "If the world can find out these numbers, so let it be. Amen." )

Here's Smith's explanation of a female stick figure holding out what looks like a torch over the back end of some horned animal (Figure 5): It called in Egyptian Enish-go-on-dosh; this is one of the governing planets also, and is said by the Egyptians to be the Sun, and to borrow its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash, which is the grand Key, or, in other words, the governing power, which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars, as also Floeese or the Moon, the Earth, and the Sun in their annual revolutions. This planet receives its powers through the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam, the stars represented by numbers 22 and 23, receiving light from the revolutions of Kolob.

Wow! A "real" Egyptian word, Hah-ko-kau-beam, with the ending "beam" in it, as he discusses how it receives light from a star as the star revolves.

(Oh, and the next time you hear a Mormon reference the "moon," just say, "Oh, you mean the Floeese?" That'll put into you on the "inside" with their "lingo"!!!)

[Guyin4Os]

I guess LDS theologians expect it will be centuries before man can travel to Kolob to falsify all this.

[reaganaut]

A popular LDS hymn about Kolob that mentions the ‘eternal regression of gods’ (God has a God who has a God who has a God, ad infinitum)

If You Could Hie to Kolob, 284 – William W. Phelps

1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”

3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.

4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.

5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.

[Boogieman]

Funny but true! In order for the Darwinists to achieve any statistically significant chance of their predictions being true, they would have to extend the lifespan of the Earth to an asymptote.

[greyfoxx39]

(Oh, and the next time you hear a Mormon reference the "moon," just say, "Oh, you mean the Floeese?" That'll put into you on the "inside" with their "lingo"!!!)

I think you will find this article by the ever-entertaining mormon apologist Kerry Shirts quite interesting:

The Joseph Smith Hypocephalus, Facsimile # 2 in the Book of Abraham Analyzed

Example of Shirts' claims: "Can you find any Egyptologists who have bothered looking at Joseph Smith's hypocephalus and shown that his interpretations DO NOT MATCH? Archaeological value is worthless. We are looking at a religious document. Again, YOU have claimed the crooked head proves Smith false. I say PROVE the crooked head PROVES Smith's explanation of what this symbol is representing as false. SHOW how CHNUM-RE is NOT ASSOCIATED WITH CREATION, GOVERNMENT, etc. I can prove that CHNUM-RE ***IS*** associated with creation, government, and the number 1000 and have done so on my website."

Enjoy!

[greyfoxx39]

Pointing you to an evolution thread HERE

This is not one.

[RegulatorCountry]

Given the general degeneration of given names into gibberish in recent decades, I fully expect to meet a Floeeshia one of these days.

[Boogieman]

One thousand apologies for invoking satire by comparing one set of ludicrous assertions to another!

[reaganaut]

"Can you find any Egyptologists who have bothered looking at Joseph Smith's hypocephalus and shown that his interpretations DO NOT MATCH? Archaeological value is worthless. We are looking at a religious document.

Um...the answer to the question is yes and to the statement: GODZILLA SIZED FACEPALM!

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

From the REAL papyrus of Abraham ...Verses 1-5

http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html

(I/1) [”Osiris, the god’s father], prophet of Amon-Re, King of the Gods, prophet of Min who slaughters his enemies, prophet of Khonsu, the [one who exercises] authority in Thebes,
(I/2) [. . .] . . . Hor, the justified, son of the similarly titled overseer of secrets and purifier of the god, Osorwer, the justified, born by the [housewife and sistrum-player of ]
(I/3) [Amon]-Re, Taikhibit, the justified! May your ba-spirit live among them, and may you be buried on the west [of Thebes].”
(I/4) [”O Anubis(?),51 . . .] justification(?).
(I/5) [May you give to him] a good and splendid burial on the west of Thebes as on the mountains of Ma[nu](?).”
[Osiris shall be towed in]to the great lake of Khonsu,
and likewise [the Osiris Hor, the justified,] born of Taikhibit, the justified,
after his two arms have been [placed] at his heart, while
the Breathing Document, being what
is written on its interior and exterior, shall be wrapped in royal linen and placed (under) his left arm in the midst of his heart. The remainder of his
wrapping shall be made over it. As for the one for whom this book is made,
he thus breathes like the ba-spirit[s] of the gods, forever and ever.

[greyfoxx39]

So much for the translation skills of Joseph Smith...now, about those “gold plates”....

[mrreaganaut]

Hey, I know those stars! That’s from the opening of the original Battlestar Galactica series! (They were the twelve colonies of the planet COBOL; Earth was the lost thirteenth tribe. I wonder where they got the idea for that?)

[greyfoxx39]

I wonder! ;)

[Colofornian]

LOL

[xzins]

Booking my first inter-planetary excursion for Kolob.

Looking forward to the kazoo players at the kebap festival on Kolob.....(drum roll).....KEBAM!

[greyfoxx39]

Looking forward to the kazoo players at the kebap festival on Kolob.....(drum roll).....KEBAM!

They can be heard here....

[reaganaut]

That whole statement really ticked me off. Having a background in Egyptology and Archeology, it is a stupid statement to begin with. Everything is looked at from a religious standpoint (or possible religious standpoint) and the papyrus IS a religious text, that still does not, in any way, reconcile the text, the interpretation of the drawings and the papyrus!

This guy would be laughed out of AIA.

[Elsie]

The promise of great posterity applies to all the faithful.

Now then; someone pick on Benny Hinn again...

[Elsie]

Or a Floesunni!

[Elsie]

 

One thousand apologies for invoking satire by comparing one set of ludicrous assertions to another!

 

 

Joseph Smith was a famous Preacher in the Eastern USA. His teaching empire grew to include acquisition of valuable printing assets and intimate dealings with the Missouri courts.

 

 He devoted several years of his early life to exploratory service, finally taking leave to assume his dealings with various Spiritual Beings.

 

As an adjunct to his exploratory work, Mummies and papyrus are purchased from Michael Chandler.  On July 19, 1835 at age 29; Joseph began translating the papyrus. It will be known as the Book of Abraham, generating quite a lot of interest by leading archeological experts.

 

 In 1844, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the authorities in Carthage, Hancock County, Illinois. That same month, Smith passed away during an important civic function held in his honor when the excitable group who had come to visit him pressed too many into the room he was in and his death resulted.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

So much for the translation skills of Joseph Smith...now, about those “gold plates”....

---

---

 

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

 

 No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

---

 

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

---

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

---

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

     .
 

     .
 

      .

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[T Minus Four]

I fully expect to meet a Floeeshia one of these days.

They're Quakers I hear so they should be easy to recognize, what with the funny hats and buckled shoes and all.

[SZonian]

No, more than likely you’ll need a Star Gate to do that.

[greyfoxx39]

They're Quakers I hear so they should be easy to recognize, what with the funny hats and buckled shoes and all.

LOL...OR..

[wendy1946]

Damned if that picture doesn’t look like a system of theology devised using Rational Rose or some similar yuppie style software design tool.

[greyfoxx39]

Damned if that picture doesn’t look like a system of theology devised using Rational Rose or some similar yuppie style software design tool.

OH NOES! Now we will see a press release from mormontimes.com...

"Discovery proves truth of Book of Mormon...world's oldest computer found near the location of Nephite battle! He didn't really use a stone in a hat!"

[svcw]

You just can’t make this stuff up.

[Godzilla]

[wendy1946]

You just can’t make this stuff up.

Joseph Smith did...

[T Minus Four]

what in the dickens is all this nonsense?

[T Minus Four]

Booking my first inter-planetary excursion for Kolob.

Better book a hotel with a good A/C system. There seems to be some confusion on whether it is a planet or a star.

[T Minus Four]

You know, it would seem to me that the Jewish people would rise up in outrage against this steaming pile of horse manure. Haven’t they endured enough? Why do they stand for it?

Or maybe they are laughing their heads off. I dunno....

[T Minus Four]

Notice that not one single Mormon has the tiniest little thing to say in the defense of this hooey? Not even our intrepid and valiant Resty!

[reaganaut]

My husband would LOVE one of those.

[Tennessee Nana]

evolution ???

Well, Joey Smith believed that Mommy planets and Daddy planets had Baby planets ...

[Godzilla]

Notice that not one single Mormon has the tiniest little thing to say in the defense of this hooey?

Of course not. this would expose the fraud that the POGP (and more specifically the book of abraham) for what it is.

[svcw]

Really T, how can anyone defend this idiocracy.

[greyfoxx39]

[mrreaganaut]

LOL!!! I do love the desk, but I don’t know whether to make a Stargate joke or a Ghostbusters joke!

“Ray, when someone asks you if you’re a god, say YES!”

Of course, in Stargate, they had cureloms...

[reaganaut]

Thanks for the reminder.

[reaganaut]

How about an Indy IV joke. :)

[mrreaganaut]

“Throw me the idol, and I throw you the whip!”