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Wisconsin's Catholic child abuse anguish
BBC ^ | 26 March 2010 | Matthew Price

Posted on 03/27/2010 3:29:23 AM PDT by Gamecock

What must it feel like to have lost 50 years of your life? For that is what 61-year old Arthur Budzinski has endured.

Five long decades of personal pain.

And he has to rely on others to speak of his anguish.

It is made worse by the fact that no-one has been held to account for the sexual abuse he says he suffered as a child while at the Roman Catholic St John's School for the Deaf in St Francis, Wisconsin.

Arthur and around 200 other boys are said to have been sexually abused at the school by Father Lawrence Murphy, a Catholic priest.

He says he and others told members of the clergy back then that they were being watched, touched and exploited by Fr Murphy.

No-one listened.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Current Events
KEYWORDS: agendadrivenfreeper; arthurbudzinski; catholic; childabuse; clergy; freformed; lawrencemurphy; priest; sexualabuse; wisconsin
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To: the_conscience
shutting down Romanist pedophile camps?

Where, exactly, are these "Romanist pedophile camps" located?

51 posted on 03/27/2010 11:32:45 AM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: the_conscience

You wrote:

“What’s troubling is that you would think that this would energize Romanists to reform their Church...”

The cases in question are DECADES old. Reform has already happened in the US.

“...but instead we read all kinds of deluded platitudes on how these priest scandals are somehow an attack on the Roman Church by those outside the Church, written with an ignoble ignorance to the actual problem.”

Actually there’s none of that at all. No one is saying the “priest scandals” are an attack on the Church. What is an attack is when decades old cases are worked up into scandals for no reason other than attacking the pope and the Church. Remember, people are DELIBERATELY misreporting the facts about the cases in question. You don’t think that matters? No, I guess anti-Catholics don’t care about facts to begin with.


52 posted on 03/27/2010 11:33:06 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Campion; Dr. Eckleburg

I guess that would depend on how you define conservative. If the goal is to conserve classical liberalism then the only conservative on your list is Clarence Thomas who was not raised Catholic.

Robert George is the main author of the anti-liberty Manhattan Declaration. That too many Protestants bought into it’s false premises does not mitigate against the fact that the document is undergirded by Romanist ideals of Church authority over society.

So far you have one conservative.


53 posted on 03/27/2010 11:42:10 AM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: the_conscience

Thomas was raised as a Catholic: http://www.adherents.com/people/pt/Clarence_Thomas.html


55 posted on 03/27/2010 11:53:22 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: the_conscience

“Consider this: Remember when the Clinton thugs blew up a small compound because it’s leader was a pedophile? Now we have even more hardened Secularists in charge who would no doubt love to destroy any Christian denomination that does not ascribe to a watered down liberal pantheistic version of Christianity.
If the government used the justification that children were being harmed to attack the Branch Davidians, and I believe the same justification was used against the Mormons in Texas, then what’s stopping the government from shutting down Romanist pedophile camps...”

Precedent point well taken, but don’t through the Baby out with the bathwater.


56 posted on 03/27/2010 12:00:07 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: the_conscience

You wrote:

“I’m not surprised you’re comfortable in your deluded state of mind rationalizing away the problem...”

I have never been deluded. It is not in my nature. I also NEVER, EVER, even once, rationalized “away the problem”. What you’re posting there is simply a flat out lie about my character. I defy you to show any evidence to bolster your claims.

“...as mere past tense events ignorantly content that the current state of affairs is free from these scandals.”

The two cases in question actually happened DECADES ago. Even the last detail of one case is given as happening in 1996. That’s 14 years ago. If 55, more than 30, and 14 years ago is not past tense, then what is?

“The delusion helps you hang on to your false beliefs.”

I have no delusions. I have no false beliefs. What you have is a habit of posting slanderous things against those who demand evidence from you. Time to post some evidence. Prove your claim against me. I’ll even let slide the clear violation of the board rules on your part (supposed reading of minds). Since you’re an anti-Catholic I wouldn’t expect the Mod to do anything about it anyway.

If you have any honor, you will prove your claim against me. Do you?


57 posted on 03/27/2010 12:02:00 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998; Campion

Thanks for posting the link. Looks like Thomas is Episcopalian instead of Romanist. Campion is back to zero.


58 posted on 03/27/2010 12:05:05 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience

Thomas is Catholic. He returned to the Catholic faith in 1991. He has spoken about this in the past. http://www.adherents.com/adh_sc.html


59 posted on 03/27/2010 12:13:11 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Domestic Church
Precedent point well taken, but don’t through the Baby out with the bathwater.

I'm not following your point. What baby is being thrown out?

60 posted on 03/27/2010 12:20:57 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: vladimir998

Yeesh....here we go again.

Why not just close the thread down as soon as the rabid anti Catholics come on board.

Just a lot of vitriole...over and over and over...

They really are in behaviors JUST like Libs: Screaming, angry, refuse to argue the points, repeat the same sentences over and over.......

BUSH LIED! CATHOLIC CHURCH BAD!
FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH GOOD! HALLIBURTON!
POPE BAD! DICK CHENEY BAD!! HIERARCHY BAD!

thanks all you anti Catholics...you make the Left’s job soooo much easier....

“Sinead OConner..please pick up the courtesy phone...Leftists and Anti Catholic Freepers are on the phone.”


61 posted on 03/27/2010 12:26:40 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Ok, joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: the_conscience

I’ve read Thomas’ autobiography. He was raised Catholic. He even went to a seminary high school with every intention of becoming a priest. He had a bad personal experience with fellow students (the incident was racial) and he become disillusioned with religion generally.


62 posted on 03/27/2010 12:26:44 PM PDT by fdcc
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie; the_conscience

I agree with you. I understand why EVERYONE is disgusted by priestly sexual abuse. They should be disgusted. What I don’t understand is how prejudice can so deeply motivate people as to lie about what Freepers actually believe and post. I demanded evidence from the_conscience. I have no doubt that he will utterly fail to post any evidence to bolster his false accusation against me. It’s a disturbing pattern of behavior: falsely accuse Catholic who are right on the facts of actually excusing the abuse we all decry; post complete fabrications; post distortions, etc.


63 posted on 03/27/2010 12:33:45 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998

Your posts are the evidence. What more evidence is needed? To believe these scandals are merely past events is clearly delusional.


64 posted on 03/27/2010 12:37:07 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience

Seek and ye shall find but you need to put down your verbal swords and do all in love. You are off the Way.


65 posted on 03/27/2010 12:43:52 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: the_conscience
I guess that would depend on how you define conservative.

I didn't realize you got to define what "conservative" means.

Plenty of self-professed conservatives, including conservative Protestants, consider the men I listed to be conservatives.

That you do not demonstrates how far out of the mainstream you are.

And yes, Clarence Thomas is a Catholic.

66 posted on 03/27/2010 12:46:10 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: the_conscience

You wrote:

“Your posts are the evidence. What more evidence is needed? To believe these scandals are merely past events is clearly delusional.”

This is what you accused me of:

“I’m not surprised you’re comfortable in your deluded state of mind rationalizing away the problem as mere past tense events ignorantly content that the current state of affairs is free from these scandals.”

Thus, you accused me of being: 1) delusional, 2) in my “mind rationalizing away the problem”, and 3) that I am just “rationalizing away the problem as mere past tense”.

Now, where, in what posts, did I show myself to be DELUSIONAL, and where did you step into my MIND, and where did I rationalize away the problem as mere past tense?

I did none of those things. You were clearly posting false accusations. You have failed to prove them and you will continue to fail. Anti-Catholics are routinely dishonest. That is once again being shown in this thread.


67 posted on 03/27/2010 12:49:42 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Domestic Church

Jesus, the Apostles and Prophets often used the verbal sword. I guess you’ll have to explain exactly what Way you mean?


68 posted on 03/27/2010 12:51:03 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: Domestic Church

Thank you for bringing this up.

I have observed that for a long time now.

I would imagine that the lurkers have, as well.


69 posted on 03/27/2010 12:52:39 PM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words: "It's too late"))
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To: the_conscience

But—they were Jesus, the Apostles and Prophets.

We who are Christian (Christ-bearers) were not given the command to bear verbal swords against one another; in fact, we are told that we must account for every word.


70 posted on 03/27/2010 12:57:34 PM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words: "It's too late"))
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To: vladimir998

Yes, these are false accusations and are also personal.


71 posted on 03/27/2010 12:58:53 PM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words: "It's too late"))
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To: Campion
I didn't realize you got to define what "conservative" means.

lol That attitude probably best exemplifies my point. Is there some definition of conservative that I am obligated to conform to? Since I defined how conservative is meant to be defined I would think you would show me how my definition is faulty. I'm fine with being out of the mainstream but that probably just proves I'm conservative.

72 posted on 03/27/2010 1:00:01 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience
Is there some definition of conservative that I am obligated to conform to?

No more so than I am obligated to conform to yours.

73 posted on 03/27/2010 1:01:30 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: Campion; the_conscience

How many people - who identify themselves as conservatives - would say the following people were not conervative:

John Boehner; SCOTUS justices John Roberts, Samuel Alito, John Scalia, and Clarence Thomas; Robert George of Princeton; natural-law scholar J Budszizewski.

I think someone might quibble here and there, but to dismiss all of them as being NOT conservative is just bizarre.


74 posted on 03/27/2010 1:05:38 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998; the_conscience

The flipside of that is: if they aren’t conservatives, then what are they? The left certainly doesn’t accept any of them.


75 posted on 03/27/2010 1:08:44 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: Lorica

I think they know quite a bit. Catholics just don’t want to hear it.


76 posted on 03/27/2010 1:12:01 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: Campion

Right! It’s just plain bizarre!


77 posted on 03/27/2010 1:12:33 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

They know they were saved through infant baptism, you know...


78 posted on 03/27/2010 1:14:08 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: Marysecretary

Catholics hear it no matter what. The difference is we also insist on the facts being posted as well. That’s when the anti-Catholics seem to become unhinged and demand that their fantasies and false accudations against posters are reality.


79 posted on 03/27/2010 1:14:28 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Running On Empty
Indeed we must account for every word and iron sharpens iron and the truth will set us free. But I don't see where Scripture tells us to hide the truth so we don't hurt someones feelings.
But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

80 posted on 03/27/2010 1:15:41 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience

You wrote:

“But I don’t see where Scripture tells us to hide the truth so we don’t hurt someones feelings.”

Where in scripture does it say it’s okay for you to make things up against posters at FR?


81 posted on 03/27/2010 1:17:50 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: the_conscience
But I don't see where Scripture tells us to hide the truth

Speaking of the truth, where, exactly are those "Romanist pedophile camps"?

82 posted on 03/27/2010 1:20:15 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: Campion
No more so than I am obligated to conform to yours.

Indeed. But I wasn't the one demanding that you conform to some mainstream definition. I clearly defined conservative as those who hold to the classical liberal principles of our founders. I have yet to hear your definition. I would suppose it to be some Romanist Natural Law principle.

83 posted on 03/27/2010 1:20:29 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: Campion

Wherever priests are abusing children.


84 posted on 03/27/2010 1:21:12 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience
I clearly defined conservative as those who hold to the classical liberal principles of our founders.

Which principles, and which founders?

Thomas Jefferson, a Deist who edited his own version of the Bible, leaving out all of that icky Christian stuff?

Thomas Paine, who called Christianity an "outrage on common sense" and said that the Bible was a "history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind"?

Or Charles Carroll of Carrollton, who was, well, a Romanist?

If you don't think the Pope is infallible on matters of religion, I don't think you ought to take "the founders" as infallible on matters of political philosophy. It's bad form.

Conservatives are people who believe in capitalism, limited government, the rule of law, and "natural rights" -- that is, that people have certain human rights by virtue of their nature as human beings, not because some external human entity decides to recognize them.

85 posted on 03/27/2010 1:34:05 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: the_conscience; Campion

Campion, the_conscience apparently believes he can say anything (no matter how ludicrous) and that it is just fine as long as it opposes the Catholic Church. I don’t believe he cares about the truth. I don’t believe he believes lying is wrong - as long as it attacks the Catholic Church.


86 posted on 03/27/2010 1:35:01 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: the_conscience
Wherever priests are abusing children.

So if I started talking about "Presbyterian adultery camps," and you inquired what I meant, and I responded, "Wherever ministers are seducing married women from the congregation," you would consider that a satisfactory answer?

87 posted on 03/27/2010 1:36:49 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: MinorityRepublican
Then priests need to be allowed to marry. It’ll be easy to get rid of all child molesters hiding behind the robe.

A specious, at best, conclusion germinated by a simple mind which is at a loss to explain the behavior of these deviants since he/she/it can't use the "celibacy is the reason" crutch.

By the way, Einstein, the vast majority of pedophiles are married men.

88 posted on 03/27/2010 1:53:28 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: the_conscience

I have not once made an effort or a post to hide the truth that this thread is about. I am committed to Truth and to the truth.

As for iron sharpening iron—I’m assured that the Lord Jesus did not give that commandment to those who would follow Him. Rather He said that we were to be like Him—meek and humble of heart. It wasn’t in vain that He said that to us.

When there comes a time that iron must sharpen iron, it will be God’s handiwork and His doing.

Meanwhile, on this thread and the many like it popping up on this forum in the past few days, there have been Catholic posters who made it very clear that they were not protecting abusers or that they not failed to acknowledge the seriousness of this situation.

At the same time, many Catholic posters have expressed concerns that there’s a media juggernaut against the Pope. That has also provided fodder for those on this forum who appear to welcome any and all opportunities to discredit not only the Pope but those who stand with him in his way of the Cross.

There are many accusations and accusers, and the more there are threads like this, the more the accusers band together to denounce and accuse.

This is an injustice. It does much to contribute to ill will and vitriol and contempt and, in the end, has nothing to give that is profitable for anyone.


89 posted on 03/27/2010 2:05:37 PM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words: "It's too late"))
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To: A.A. Cunningham

You hit the nail on the head. 8% of married compared to 4% for priest. Good for you to point out. Boy, the Hate really is trying to flow. And who is the master of hate! Hmmm The old serpent perhaps? And when we have hate in our hearts Christ says we commit murder. But then when your guranteed to be saved and dont have to answer to no one- let the hate flow?


90 posted on 03/27/2010 2:13:10 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
John Allan(sic) may be flaming, but he sure isn't liberal!

More evidence that your doctorate was obtained via a mail order diploma mill advertising in Popular Science.

91 posted on 03/27/2010 2:18:59 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: the_conscience
Like here.
92 posted on 03/27/2010 2:27:00 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: wmfights
94% of RC's in the legislature voted for nationalized HC.

You are not telling the truth.

93 posted on 03/27/2010 2:29:33 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Pray for my soul. More things are wrought by prayer Than this world dreams of.-- Idylls of the King)
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To: bronx2; the_conscience
You and your buddies should picket the nearest Romanist camp this weekend.

Armed and ready! Bring it on!!

94 posted on 03/27/2010 2:35:29 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Pray for my soul. More things are wrought by prayer Than this world dreams of.-- Idylls of the King)
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To: the_conscience; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Dutchboy88; RnMomof7; HarleyD; Quix; ...
If you or I found out children were being tyrannized in our particular Christian society we would not just simply allow the leadership of that society to quietly sweep it under the rug and allow the abuse to continue.

By not reporting the CRIME aren't you aiding and abetting?

95 posted on 03/27/2010 2:42:07 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights
I think you'd have to be knowingly concealing material evidence to do that, but IANAL.
96 posted on 03/27/2010 2:45:41 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: HarleyD

The Pope was following the confidential orders of the Crimen Sollicitationis to hide the facts, support the priest and deny. The Vatican is still doing that.

oh please, get a life


97 posted on 03/27/2010 3:06:33 PM PDT by terycarl (4)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

2) One of the main reasons for this supposed time lapse is that under threat of excommunication, the victim must wait 10 years after he reaches the age of 18 to even speak about the crime with anyone other than a priest

who on earth told you that piece of nonsense?????any child who is molested should tell everyone he knows about it, his or her parents, teachers, trusted adult friend....anyone.....and they will not be excommunicated.....sheesh


98 posted on 03/27/2010 3:16:51 PM PDT by terycarl (4)
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To: Marysecretary

think they know quite a bit. Catholics just don’t want to hear it.

again, welcome back, and again, you still have no idea of what you are talking about. For some, it is better just to listen and learn from those who do indeed, have some idea of what’s happening.....and your next post concerning infant baptism was just as uninformed as was this one....


99 posted on 03/27/2010 3:46:43 PM PDT by terycarl (4)
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To: All
An important update to this story.

Summary:

The canonical process to formally remove Murphy from the priesthood was underway until 2 days before his death, and was never halted nor impeded by Rome.

Abp. Weakland sat on the case for 19 years before telling Rome about it. Canon law authorized him to act without Rome's approval during this entire period. He did nothing.

100 posted on 03/27/2010 4:38:22 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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