Skip to comments.580 Reasons (& counting) Why You Should Leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [II]
Posted on 06/13/2010 6:28:26 PM PDT by Colofornian
41 Baptism for Dead not Necessary
2 Nephi 9:38; And, in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.
Isaiah 64:6; But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
42 Baptism, Resurrection, Church; Circa 120 BC
Mosiah 26:2; They did not believe what had been said concerning the resurrection of the dead, neither did they believe concerning the coming of Christ. 4 And they would not be baptized; neither would they join the church. And they were a separate people as to their faith, and remained so ever after, even in their carnal and sinful state; for they would not call upon the Lord their God.
1 Timothy 6:3-5; If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
43 Baptism then Holy Spirit
Cowleys Talks on Doctrine, pg. 110; Having shown that faith, repentance and baptism are essential to the remission of sins, let us now consider the reception of the Holy Spirit. That this should follow, and not precede, the birth of the water must be evident to every thoughtful person.
Acts 2:41; Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Newsweek, "What Mormons Believe," September 1, 1980, p. 68; Mormon doctrine means that ultimately we are not dependent upon God for our existence. And since we can make ourselves as godly as the Father, we dont feel any jealousy toward him. BYU Professor James E. Ford
2 Tim. 2:16; But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
45 Bible vs. Book of Mormon
Come, Listen to a Prophets Voice, pg. 15; Of the four great standard works of the Churchthe Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great PriceI would particularly urge you to read again and again the Book of Mormon and ponder and apply its teachings. The Book of Mormon was referred to by the Prophet Joseph Smith as "the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man [and woman] would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."
1 John 5:13; These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
46 Bible is Eternal
2 Nephi 9:16; And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away.
Matthew 5:18; For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
47 Bible, Is it Trustworthy?
A Bible, A Bible! pgs. 16-17; Early in the Prophet's ministry the Lord instructed him to make a revision, or as he termed it, a "translation" of the Bible. This was not to be a translation in the usual sense, employing a knowledge of biblical languages, use of ancient manuscripts, and the usual procedure and paraphernalia of the scholar, but rather a translation in which Joseph Smith would discern the true intent of the Bible through revelation. It is now known as the Joseph Smith Translation, or JST A major purpose of the new translation seems to have been the spiritual understanding that came to the Prophet as a result of his effort.
Hebrews 8:10-11; For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
2 Timothy 3:13-15; But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
48 Bible isnt True
8th Article of Faith; We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
2 Tim. 3:16; All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
49 Bible not for Modern Times - *
JD 2:75-76; The words contained in this Bible are merely a history of what is gone by; it was never given to guide the servant of God in the course he should pursue, any more than the words and commandments of God, given to a generation under one set of circumstances, would serve for another generation under another set of circumstances The Bible is not a sufficient guide; it is only the history of the people who lived 1800 years ago. The history of our Church in this day, presents the scenes and transactions of this peoplethe revelations and words of God to them
1 Peter 1:25; But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
50 Bishop Holds Keys to Cleansing Power
Morality, pg. 108; For those of you inside the Church there is a way, not entirely painless, but certainly possible. You can stand clean and spotless before Him. Guilt will be gone, and you can be at peace. Go to your bishop. He holds the key to this cleansing power.
1 John 1:7; But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
51 Bishop Must be Related to Aaron Unless Ordained
D&C 68:18-19; No man has a legal right to this office, to hold the keys of this priesthood, except he be a literal descendant and the firstborn of Aaron. 19 But, as a high priest of the Melchizedek Priesthood has authority to officiate in all the lesser offices he may officiate in the office of bishop when no literal descendant of Aaron can be found, provided he is called and set apart and ordained unto this power, under the hands of the First Presidency of the Melchizedek Priesthood.
Titus 1:7-9; For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
52 Blacks are Slaves Mentally
JD 5:217; Elder Hyde inquired the situation of the negro. I replied, they came into the world slaves mentally and physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like them. They have souls, and are subjects of salvation. Go into Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro, who rides in his carriage, and you will see a man who has risen by the powers of his own mind to his exalted state of respectability. The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high places, and the black boys will take the shine of many of those they brush and wait on.
1 Cor. 12:13; For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
53 Blacks and Whites are Saved
2 Nephi 26:33; he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.
Galatians 3:28; There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
54 Blacks Not Born Innocent
Way to Perfection, pg. 102; In the spirit of sympathy, mercy and faith, we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our negro brethren, for they are our brethren-children of God-notwithstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness.
James 2:1-4; My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
55 Blacks are Satans Representatives after Flood
Gospel Kingdom, pgs. 103; And then the devil put on a long face and said, I imagined I had got rid of these fellows; but they are going to have a chance yet that I did not think of. And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God.
Genesis 6:10; And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
56 God Cursed People with Dark Skin
2 Nephi 5:21; And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
Genesis 4:11, 15; And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; 15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
57 Blacks, Why They Were Accepted into Church
Revelations of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 353; Under these conditions President Spencer W. Kimball began an exhaustive personal study of the scriptures as well as statements of Church leaders since Joseph Smith, and asked other General Authorities to share their personal feelings relative to the longstanding Church policy. Then he began to inquire of the Lord if the time was not right to extend the priesthood blessings to this restricted people. Recalling this period, President Kimball stated, "Day after day, and especially on Saturdays and Sundays when there were no organizations in the temple, I went there when I could be alone." The result was a revelation on 1 June 1978.
Romans 12:2; And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
58 Blind Faith
Improvement Era, June 1945; When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a planit is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.
59 Blind Faith
Ensign, August 1979, pg. 2; Recently, at the Churchwide fireside meeting held for the women of the Church, Young Women President Elaine Cannon made the following statement: When the Prophet speaks, the debate is over (Ensign, Nov. 1978, p. 108). I was impressed by that simple statement, which carries such deep spiritual meaning for all of us.
Matt. 15:8-9, 14-15: This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
60 Blind Obedience
Conference Report, Oct. 1960, Marion Romney, pg, 78; My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it." Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, "But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray."
2 Peter 1:10; Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.
61 Blind Obedience
July 1972 Ensign, pg. 87, Joseph Fielding Smith; Now, brethren, I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord.
Prov. 27:17; Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
62 Blood Atonement
Brigham Young, JD 4:220; I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them. The wickedness and ignorance of the nations forbid this principle's being in full force, but the time will come when the law of God will be in full force. This is loving our neighbour as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it. Any of you who understand the principles of eternity, if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind.
1 Thessalonians 4:6; That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
63 Blood Changes at Conversion
TPJS, pg. 149; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence.
Galatians 3:28-29; There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
64 Arrogance of BY
JD 13:95; I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture.
2 Peter 1:20; Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
65 Arrogance of Joseph Smith
HC 6:408-409; Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.
Deut. 34:10; And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face.
Deut. 28:66; And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life.
66 Book of Life
Ensign, Nov. 1994, 8; Look to the temple of the Lord as the great symbol of your membership.
Revelation 3:5; He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Book of Mormon
67 Book of Mormon Another Testament
Front Cover; Book of Mormon; Another Testament of Jesus Christ.
Gal. 1:6-9; I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
68 Book of Mormon
D&C 20:9; Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also.
1 Cor. 15:1-4; Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
69 Book of Mormon, Accept it or be Damned
Jan. 15, 1842, Times & Seasons 3:658; God inspired them to frame the American Constitution This was also done to prepare the way for the coming forth of the Book of Mormonthe stick of Josephthat he might lift it up (in connection with the Bible) as an ensign upan [sic] the moantains, [sic] and set it as a sign among the people for the purpose of gathering and uniting the whole house of Israel into one nation upon their own land, and also for the purpose of re-establishing the kingdom of God upon the earth with all its officers, gifts and blessings.
Mark 13:22; For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
70 Book of Mormon, Biblical Prophecies of the
Encyclopedia of Mormonism, pg. 158; According to a prophecy of Joseph in Egypt, preserved in the Book of Mormon (2 Ne. 3:4-21), two sets of records would be kept by two tribes of Israel-one (the Bible) written by the tribe of Judah and the other (Book of Mormon) kept by the tribe of Joseph (2 Ne. 3:12; cf. Ezek. 37:15-19).
2 Peter 1:20-21; Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
71 Book of Mormon Evidences
Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pg. 155; Don't be concerned over Book of Mormon geography. Some say the Hill Cumorah was in southern Mexico (and someone pushed it down still farther) and not in western New York. Well, if the Lord wanted us to know where it was or where Zarahemla was, He'd have given us latitude and longitude, don't you think? And why bother our heads trying to discover with archaeological certainty the geographical locations of the cities of the Book of Mormon like Zarahemla? (66-07) The witness of the Book of Mormon is not found in the ruins of Central and South America. They may be outward evidences of a people long since disappeared. The real witness is that which is found in the Book of Mormon itself. The Book of Mormon ought to be to you one of the most prized books you have. (73-21, p. 3) The Book of Mormon is its own best evidence. So far as we are concerned, the best evidence in the world of the truth of the Book of Mormon is the Book of Mormon itself. (72-19).
Ezek. 13:3; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
72 Book of Mormon Evidences
Studies of the Book of Mormon, by B.H. Roberts, p. 271; There were other Anti-Christs among the Nephites, but they were more military leaders than religious innovators... they are all of one breed and brand; so nearly alike that one mind is the author of them, and that a young and underdeveloped, but piously inclined mind. The evidence I sorrowfully submit, points to Joseph Smith as their creator. It is difficult to believe that they are a product of history, that they came upon the scene separated by long periods of time, and among a race which was the ancestral race of the red man of America.
2 Tim. 3:13-15; But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
73 Five Reasons for Book of Mormon
Especially for Missionaries, vol. 1; The purpose of the Book of Mormon is fivefold. First, it stands as a second testament or witness for Jesus Christ. Second, it authenticates the Bible. Third, it shows the goodness of God to his children. Fourth, it makes people aware of the promises that God has made to his children. And fifth, it restores to earth many plain and precious truths that have been lost since the fulness of the gospel existed.
1 Peter 1:25; But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
74 God Commanded Jews to Flee to Wilderness?
1 Nephi 17:47; Wherefore, the Lord commanded my father that he should depart into the wilderness; and the Jews also sought to take away his life
Jeremiah 42:9-11; And said unto them, Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, unto whom ye sent me to present your supplication before him; 10 If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you. 11 Be not afraid of the king of Babylon, of whom ye are afraid; be not afraid of him, saith the LORD: for I am with you to save you, and to deliver you from his hand. (See vs. 7-22 for full story)
75 Book of Mormon god cant keep promises
Mosiah 27:13; Nevertheless he cried again, saying: Alma, arise and stand forth, for why persecutest thou the church of God? For the Lord hath said: This is my church, and I will establish it; and nothing shall overthrow it, save it is the transgression of my people.
Colossians 2:16-18; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind. [Note: see all of passage Col. 2:16-23.]
Acts 9:2-5; And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
76 Book of Mormon, Man Gets Nearer to God by
TPJS, pg. 194; Perfection of the Book of Mormon Sunday, 28.I spent the day in the council with the Twelve Apostles at the house of President Young, conversing with them upon a variety of subjects. Brother Joseph Fielding was present, having been absent four years on a mission to England. I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book. (November 28, 1841.) DHC 4:461.
Matthew 24:35; Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
77 Book of Mormon & Mark Twain
Roughing It 1872, pgs. 58-59; All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the "elect" have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it. I brought away a copy from Salt Lake. The book is a curiosity to me, it is such a pretentious affair, and yet so "slow," so sleepy; such an insipid mess of inspiration. It is chloroform in print. If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was a miracle keeping awake while he did it was, at any rate. If he, according to tradition, merely translated it from certain ancient and mysteriously-engraved plates of copper, which he declares he found under a stone in an out-of-the-way locality, the work of translating was equally a miracle, for the same reason.
78 Book of Mormon Oddities
Alma 14:21; And many such things did they say unto them, gnashing their teeth upon them, and spitting upon them, and saying: How shall we look when we are damned?
John 7:17; If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Gal. 6:7; Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
79 Book of Mormon Problems
2 Nephi 19:1; Nevertheless, the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun, and the land of Naphtali, and afterwards did more grievously afflict by the way of the Red Sea beyond Jordan in Galilee of the nations.
Isaiah 9:1; But there will be no more gloom for her who was in anguish; in earlier times He treated the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali with contempt, but later on He shall make it glorious, by the way of the sea, on the other side of Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles.
80 Book of Mormon, Testing of
Approach to the Book of Mormon, pg. 16; The Book of Mormon can and should be tested. It invites criticism, and the best possible test for its authenticity is provided by its own oft-proclaimed provenance in the Old World.
2 Peter 1:19-20; So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of ones own interpretation.
81 Book of Mormon, Three Witnesses to
Faith, pg. 2; In the early days of the restoration of the Church, Sidney Rigdon did not retain his membership in the kingdom even though he had, with Joseph Smith, witnessed marvelous signs. Had he not participated in the great vision, and had he not been the recipient of many revelations? Yet despite all these manifestations from our Heavenly Father, he did not remain in the kingdom Oliver Cowdery saw many signs. He handled the sacred plates; saw John the Baptist; received the higher priesthood from Peter, James, and John; and was the recipient of many great miracles; and yet they could not hold him to the faith. Also see EM, pg. 1565.
Galatians 5:1; Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
82 Book of Mormon: True or False?
Pamphlets, Latter-day Tracts, pg. 1; This book must be either true or false. If true, it is one of the most important messages ever sent from God to man, affecting both the temporal and eternal interests of every people under heaven to the same extent and in the same degree that the message of Noah affected the inhabitants of the old world. If false, it is one of the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions who will sincerely receive it as the word of God, and will suppose themselves securely built upon the rock of truth until they are plunged with their families into hopeless despair. The nature of the message in the Book of Mormon is such, that if true, no one can possibly be saved and reject it; if false, no one can possibly be saved and receive it. Therefore, every soul in all the world is equally interested in ascertaining its truth or falsity.
Proverbs 30:5-6; Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
83 Born Again
Encyclopedia of Joseph Smiths Teachings; Being born again, comes by the Spirit of God through ordinances. (Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 vols. 3:392)
John 3:1-16; There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
84 Brethren dont betray
TPJS pg. 156; O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Keythat in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death, see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you do not betray Jesus Christ; that you do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come. Yea, in all your kicking and flounderings, see to it that you do not this thing, lest innocent blood be found upon your skirts, and you go down to hell. All other sins are not to be compared to sinning against the Holy Ghost, and proving a traitor to the brethren.
Psalm 118:8; It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
85 Brigham Young is LDS Dictator
JD 7:19-20; What do you say, brethren and sisters? Do you not think it best for us to do right, each person individually being led by the dictations of the Holy Spirit, listening diligently to those who are appointed to lead, govern, and dictate this people? You know what I mean by this. President Young is our governor and our dictator. It is for me to walk with him, and for you to walk with those who go before you.
Oswald Chambers, My Utmost for His Highest, November 17th, My goal is God Himself At any cost, dear Lord, by any road.
86 Burning in the Bosom
D&C 9:8; But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
Proverbs 28:26; He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
87 Cain Became Perdition
Doctrines of Salvation 2:280; Satan wanted him because Cain had a body, He wanted more power. A man with a body of course will have greater power than just a spirit without a body. Cain sinned with his eyes open, so he became Perdition, the father of lies.
Exodus 20:11; For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
88 Cain to Rule Over Satan
Doctrines of Salvation 2:279; CAIN TO RULE OVER SATAN. Sons of perdition will have an ascendancy over Satan himself, because he has no body. But who is Perdition? The Lord said to Cain: "If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him; For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his lies; thou shalt be called Perdition; for thou wast also before the world."
2 Thessalonians 2:2-3; That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
89 Callings, Never Say No to
Follow the Living Prophets, pg. 253; Never say no to an opportunity to serve in the Church. If you are called to an assignment by one who has authority, there is but one answer. It is, of course, expected that you set forth clearly what your circumstances are, but any assignment that comes under call from your bishop or your stake president is a call that comes from the Lord Once called to such positions, do not presume to set your own date of release. A release is in effect another call. Men do not call themselves to offices in the Church.
Prov. 18:13; He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Marion Romney said in Ensign, July 1973, pg. 89; No one should seek to be appointed to any particular office in the Church. Such an aspiration is not a righteous desire; it is a self-serving ambition We should demonstrate that desire by living the gospel and diligently performing whatever service we are called upon to render. Holding a particular office in the Church will never save a person. Ones salvation depends upon how well he discharges the duties of the service to which he is called.
To be called or to receive a calling to serve in the Church simply means the bishop will call someone when a position needs to be filled, i.e. Sunday school teacher, Young Mens group, etc. As you can see it is not that God has called that person to be a youth pastor for his life or a choir director; as a result the Church is filled with people ill-equipped in leadership roles.
2 Cor. 4:1-2; Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
In each of the entries, the Mormon historical position is outlined first
--with LDS source in bold face--
--usually countered by the biblical perspective.
If Lds tell you that they "no longer teach that" perspective in the church, or that it never reached "official" level doctrine, remind them that these statements were not "officially" rescinded, either, by Lds church leadership.
IOW, if Mormon church publications or their general authorities have made false or misleading statements through the years, it is their responsibility to not only correct those statements, but state what was false within previous statements made by Lds general authorities.
Otherwise, it's like a long-time girlfriend/boyfriend/partner/spouse who hasn't been "true to you" -- multiple times -- only they never own up to it; apologize for it; or ask for forgiveness for being "untrue"; and simply tries to "move on" in the relationship without any acknowledgement of the false past.
The best reason to leave the LDS?
Finding salvation through Christ alone, not works and not a church.
does that mean all churches?
Indeed! Salvation is in a Living Person, Jesus Christ. Not a church.
Jesus Christ is the Only Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6) -- no matter how hard that Mitt Romney's father's cousin, Marion G. Romney, tried to contend 50 years ago that the Mormon church was the "way, the truth, and the life." Romney took John 14:6's wording -- and applied it to a religious structure at an Lds General Conference in the early 1960s.
Christ may be found amongst certain churches...but it doesn't mean that the church is the source of salvation. That is reserved for the Solo Savior.
Note, too, in Romans 6:3, we are baptized into a Person, Jesus Christ...not into any church body!
Good luck and God is with you!
I wouldn't worry about that, we wear asbestos underwear that works, unlike the underwear the lsd wear.
No, I'm not LDS, far from it. But the security and future of the country is much more important than wasting time with this “my God is better than your God” bigotry that now permeates FR.
581. Mormons are not believers! They are good peopls. They are not God’s people! Thus, they face an eternity in Hell!
No, I'm not LDS, far from it. But the security and future of the country is much more important than wasting with this “my God is better than your God” bigotry that now permeates FR.
581. Mormons are not believers! They are good peopls. They are not God’s people! Thus, they face an eternity in Hell!
Salvation is through Christ, not a church.
Mormonism teaches that to be truly saved (they call it exaltation), a person must be a member of the Mormon church and do a laundry list of works.
The Church of Christ is universal body of all believers, not just one denomination.
Mormon church was the “way, the truth, and the life.
- - - -
Every time I read that Romney quote I want to either throw up or start shooting things.
So, IOW, your god who can't multi-task battlegrounds (whether they be spiritual, geographical/physical) is better than our god who can?
How can that be -- if your god is so wimpy?
(Next you'll tell us you'll gladly pay us Tuesday if we would only stuff our mouths with hamburgers & shut up)
And since "bigotry" is a claim of somebody being intolerant, tell us, why does your intolerance of our religious expression in a Free Republic somehow trump our religious expression objections to cults?
.the security and future of the country is much more important than wasting with this my God is better than your God bigotry that now permeates FR.
- - - -
First, my God is better than the LDS god (who was once a human, is not omnipotent, and keeps changing his mind all the time.
Secondly, souls are more important than politics. But since you appear to be more interested in THIS world, rather than eternity, I pity you.
Third, most of us can multi-task quite well, thank you.
Fortunately, the anti-Mormon/ism is only one facet of this great website and is perpetuated by only a handful of posters...there’s another handful of Anti-Catholics as well...Christianity is a very splintered religion...there’s a natural “my god is better than yours” rivalry amongst them...magritte
So are you saying that you stay home on the Lord’s Day and don’t go to church?
Church is very important to me, and I bet it is very important to you......I bet Sunday mornings find you in church, despite what you said above.
It means, "Not a SPECIFIC church.";
"Only WE have the CORRECT way to GOD."
28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
So are you saying that you stay home on the Lords Day and dont go to church?
- - - - -
Not at all and that isn’t what I said. I am all for fellowship with other believers and gathering for the Word, but I also believe that the church is Universal and salvation is found in Christ not a church.
IOW, going to church doesn’t make me a Christian any more than sitting a garage makes me a car.
For the LDS it is always all about ‘the Church’ and never about Christ.
exactly. I didn’t think it was that convoluted of a statement.
Living in this world is something called "REALITY."
Third, most of us can multi-task quite well, thank you.
Yes, but you do all the tasks so poorly......
Ephesians 6:10-1710 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in HIS mighty power.11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
so it sounds like the LDS take the third commandment about keeping the Lord’s Day holy very seriously? Correct?
I wish more Christians would take it more seriously — including Catholics.
All of our churches burst at the seams at Christmas and Easter.
We call them C and E Catholics.
Boy, that's funny. That line is used by another just-so-happens to be an ex-Christian, ex-Catholic schoolkid/altar boy who's grabbed on to Judaism as a "righteous gentile" -- just like you...
Hmmm...you're not related to Invincibly Ignorant, are you?
IOW, if we were to review your posts since Dec. '07, we wouldn't find exact phrases and life scenarios, would we? And if we did, why, I'm sure you and II must have had all kinds of post exchanges given all your shared religious similarities through the years!
And why do you always sign off "Magritte" on your posts?..is that a reminder to you under which name you're posting...whereas II has tended to sign off with a symbol instead?
And, boy, you & II are each similarly drawn to all these Lds threads...my, how coincidental.
To give you an idea how well it works, on the first day of the first National Brotherhood Week ever, Malcolm X was shot.
"Oh, the white folks hate the black folks
And the black folks hate the white folks
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule
But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clark
Are dancing cheek to cheek
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise
As long as you don't let ‘em in your school
Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks
And the rich folks hate the poor folks
All of my folks hate all of your folks
It's American as apple pie
But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans
‘Cause it's very chic
Step up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand
You can tolerate him if you try
Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Hindus hate the Muslims
And everybody hates the Jews
But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
It's National Everyone-Smile-At-
Be nice to people who
Are inferior to you
It's only for a week, so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!"
Because of the arrogant attitudes of the Romney-bots.
When they could NOT defend his politics; they turned on US and claimed we failed to like him because of his religion choice.
It has ESCALATED from there.
Thank you for posting this, Colofornian.
One has nothing to do with the other.
I take it seriously, but I do not believe that the LDS is the ‘one true church on the face of the earth’ like they do.
Christ is not found in only one denomination. THAT IS WHAT I WAS SAYING.
And the LDS turn Sunday into legalism, it is beyond taking it seriously to a laundry list of do’s and don’ts that rival the Pharisees.
Their extremes about Sunday take away the spirit of what Sunday is about, a day of rest in the Lord and time set aside to worship. Their legalism about it doesn’t honor God, and feeds their self-righteousness.
I’m not sure why you think I don’t go to church (I went twice today) or take the Lord’s day seriously - although I also think that we should worship and praise God EVERY day, not just Sunday.
You seem to be misreading my post.
It ain't BIBLICAL!!!
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
13. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
It appears that EXPERIENCES can be deceiving...
If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.
If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.
...let him be accursed.What is SO hard to UNDERSTAND about this??
Wow..haven’t heard that for ages....I’ll have to pull it up on Youtube...magritte
Living in this world is something called “REALITY.”
-= - - -
I live in reality, and reality is that souls are more important than this life to a Christian.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matt 10:28)
But I guess you don’t get that since you are obviously not a Christian.
And, unless you have my house bugged, you have no clue at my multi-tasking aiblites.
There are hundreds of non LDS posts on FR. I would hazard a guess that the ratio is in the 1000 to 1 range even now.
If that is “big time” we will hit “leading” when the ration hits 500 to 1...
They are a lot like librards.
If you disagree with them, then you are the one who is hateful and intolerant. They will have about as much to say about who goes to hell as Fred Phelps and his misnamed Westboro Baptist Church.
In all my years of working for conservative causes, I've met Mormons, Catholics, Jews and Protestants of every flavor except Fred Phelps fundy types who haunt this board with their idiotic bigotry. Why do you suppose that is?
Between your Oprah level Christianity and Mitt support it is amazing you have the nerve to take on the mantel of conservative.
In a Republic in as much danger as this one, we had all better worry about our future ability to practice any non-Muslim religion, rather than spending any time whatsoever on this anti-Mormon idiocy!
The wisdom of the Founding Fathers is still true:
“We Should All Better All Hang Together Or Surely We Shall All Hang Separately.” B. Franklin.
Well this statement is plenty reason enough to... run...not walk....away from these people!!!! I am certain our Father in Heaven would have much to say about people who put so little weight on His word.
All of our churches burst at the seams at Christmas and Easter.
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
That sadly is true of all churches. A lot of CEO’s.
And for the record, I don’t believe in just going to church on Sunday. I believe that Christians should be much more involved in their church, MrR and I have run youth programs, cleaned, set stuff up, ran Easter egg and Fall festivals, been involved in Bible studies, Worship team, Choir, everything.
I don’t believe that Christians should be ‘pew potatoes’ either and I know too many.
And today I spent the day going to a Lutheran church that I do not belong to (I’m not even Lutheran) for their Centennial celebration, I helped clean the church, do repairs, paint, and helped serve and clean up after the luncheon and afternoon tea. I don’t even go or belong to that denomination, yet we were the ones who were the first there to help, and the last to leave. AND we went to both services.
My point is, all that work, and church attendance isn’t what is going to save me (or even contribute), only Christ does that. I didn’t do it to make myself feel good, or for praise for me. I did it to show the love of God to people in my community and to Glorify Christ.
Living a Christian life is much more than church membership or even attendance.
I have always assumed you are Christian and not LDS.
- - - - -
Funny, I have always assumed the opposite.
If you disagree with them, then you are the one who is hateful and intolerant.
- - - - -
That is EXACTLY how the LDS are to us. Thanks for pointing that out so clearly.
yep. It ain’t gonna be pretty come judgment day for the LDS, which is why it is so important to try to reach them now.
I cry every time I hear of an active Mormon who has died. Because I know that it is almost a certainty they died without accepting Christ.
LDS is a religion that is dying. Their numbers are in decline from the stake level to the Temples, which are also down by three, as of this year.
Their only salvation is going through a reformation and becoming part of the larger body of Christ and getting over this holier than thou, restored, pompous, etc.....
Until then, count down 3, 2, 1.....
Truth needs to be revealed just as God said it should..as well as falsehoods. The religious threads are a great place to debate these and many here take on the hard and difficult stuff to arrive at truth.....it isn't anti-anything...it's truth and the revelation of that. Some just hide behind the anti lingo when their back is up against the wall...most just continue to debate and the volume does get heavy...... As for the passion behind the statements....the gospels are full of the passion of Peter, Paul, Like and others...I would expect the same here.
I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otherThis is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is wellI am well enough off. I then said to my mother,
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
60,000 uh 53,000 rats! 52,000 MORMON 'missionaries', that spend up to 2 years of their lives, going door to door telling folks that MORMONism is the ONLY correct way to GOD, should be delivering a DIFFERENT message?
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