580 Reasons (& counting) Why You Should Leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [II]

Life After Ministries ^ | 2007

[Raider Sam]

I read the post. Through your words and actions, you show that you are not concerned with lost souls. Only with protecting your interpretation of a religious savior.

[Raider Sam]

Exactly, and you can say anything you want. No one is infringing on your freedom of speech.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Disagreeing with LDS, by embracing the true gospel and LOVING CHRIST? The irony is rich.

[Raider Sam]

That cut and paste stuff is ridiculous. Those posts are so long, the only people who read it are the anti-Mormoners. And have you noticed how they kind of follow around the ring leader. When he posts, then the others always join in and agree with each other on how right they are multiple times. Then if you argue, they put up the face palm picture.

[Raider Sam]

But what if youre wrong?

[Vendome]

reaganaut: I have lost my earlier post regarding declining numbers of LDS. Do you have a reference?

10 New Missions to be Created, 14 to be Discontinued

Ireland Dublin Mission, one of the missions in Chicago, and a mission or two in Australia will be discontinued.

 

New missions include Peru Cuzco, Guatemala, Philipines, Democratic Republic of Congo Lubumbashi and more.  All new missions being formed outside the U.S. are in areas that have indisputably high illiteracy rates. 

 

A new mission in St George, Utah will stretch all the way to Farmington, New Mexico and is likely being built to support LDS immigrants to the areas of  traditional LDS communities.

 

However, it is interesting to note the total number of missions worldwide will fall by four from 344 to 340.

 

[Raider Sam]

And saying that these people are acting like wannabe dictators and questioning why they only want to take down Mormons or Mormonism is not trampling on their freedom of speech, which was the original complaint. I was merely showing the absurdity of their argument.

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Religion Moderator]

Normally, when skunks stay out in the woods, I don't pay them any attention. But when they come into my backyard and start spraying their nasty scent on my fellow conservatives, sometimes I feel it necessary to act.

This thread is posted in the Religion Forum.

If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."

[caww]

Does it matter to you if they do or not?

[Raider Sam]

Does it matter if they have Jesus or does it matter if they go to Hell?

To them, they are not going to Hell. To Christians who believe that the only way to God is through believing in Christ, then they are going to Hell.

I dont know if Jews are going to Hell. I also dont know if Mormons are going to Hell. I dont even know if Christians are going to Hell. But a poster on this thread said Mormons are going to Hell, so I brought up that idea with other religions.

[caww]

Well, the actual point of the “matter” is Christ said, “ No man can come to the Father except by me”....It's not about what I want to believe.. it's about DO I believe what HE said.

The entire Bible speaks of His coming:

From Genesis to Malachi it says... He is coming.....From Matthew to John it says... He is here.... And from Acts to Revelations it says.... He is coming again.....so the whole thing is about Him.

Therefore we come back then to the “matter” at hand.......Do they believe what He said He would do that He did just that?....and do they believe what he said we need to do, to be with Him now and in the future?.... He said...”I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born-again”Jn 3:3 ....

You see the difference between Christianity and all other religions is Christ lives here and now....all other religions serve a dead prophet or guru or leader....therefore since Christ is above all others in all things,... just as He said and just as is written,... why then believe that which leads away from this truth?.... Since He is alive here and now we can and do have a relationship with Him.. NOW...if we want it...that's the choice.

As for hell....and who goes there...Christ said...”Whoever believes in Him is not condemned,... but whoever does not believe stands condemned already.... because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.” Jn3:18

So it does seem quite clear those who do not believe in Christ have another destination then one with Him.

Further....After He rose from the dead the disciples recalled what He had said...and they believed the Scripture and the words Jesus had spoken. Jn2:22

Not to forget .... He spent more time warning about the dangers of Hell then He did about heaven....so He certainly understood that danger or He would never have warned us of it.

So those who follow other paths, as we see, are doomed already if they don't believe in Christ.

[Colofornian]

* Thank you for posting this, Colofornian. [Pan_Yans Wife]
* What a great witness, Friend… [Procon]
* Thanks for the info. I have copied and printed this material for a defense of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I haven’t had a Mormon at the door for a few years but I like to be ready to give an answer for my hope… [Chicagohand]

Thanks for the encouragement, and coming by this thread!

If anybody hears of similar articles to this one, let me know. So far, the only other one I’ve found is one by author Latayne Scott, who’s a former Mormon. She has a 365 Reasons Why I Won’t Return to Mormonism piece. I haven’t navigated all around her site; this came up re: reasons #142 & #143 when I was researching the linkage between death row inmate Ronnie Gardner and blood atonement (reason #143 for Scott).

And, speaking of blood atonement, the article posted has this as "Reason #62"...Here's the "Y" speaking, Brigham Young: “I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, [My note: Exaltation in Mormonism = godhood]
cont'd Young quote: but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them. The wickedness and ignorance of the nations forbid this principle's being in full force, but the time will come when the law of God will be in full force. This is loving our neighbour as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it. (Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 220)

Hmm...I wonder if any of the non-Lds allies of Lds who have come to this thread would like to defend this Brigham Young quote?

According to Young, the way you "love mankind" is to have your Mormon neighbors "help" you...
...(to finish quoting Young)..."if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until YOUR blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind.”

I think if these Lds "allies" are going to generically defend Mormon doctrine as they have on this thread, they should also consider defending its specifics, too!

PYW, good to hear from you! (It's been a while)

[ejonesie22]

I’m not.

[ejonesie22]

So then where is the problem?

[ejonesie22]

No, it involves both lost souls and defending the only savior.

[ejonesie22]

The United States armed forces.

[ejonesie22]

John 14:6 (King James Version)

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If that needs further clarification there is not much I can do for you at this point.

[ejonesie22]

Absurdity?

Uh huh...

So let me see if I have this right.

Because we “trample” on the first amendment rights of Mormons, which we don't seeing they are free to post as many times as they wish in response, you want us to shut up.

Absurdity...

And irony...

When all that is left is demonizing your opponent and telling them to shut up your argument is lost.

[Elsie]

 

Anything that attacks Christianity will provide fodder for those who are giving shelter to the Isalmist. Mormonism makes a mockery of true historic Christianity and leads good people down a path no better than the one the Islamist are on.

 

And, quite similar!

 

 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1] 

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith’s followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith’s own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith’s claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith  & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.