How did Jacob see *GOD* Face to Face? Genesis 32:30

Vanity | July 5th, 2010 | TaraP

[TaraP]

Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

GENESIS 32:28-31

And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast revailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said: Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?

And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel (Pineal): for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. And as he passed over Peniel (Pineal) the sun rose upon him, and halted upon his thigh."

Was Jacob seeing GOD through his *Pineal Gland*

The Pineal Gland is about the size of a pea, and is in the center of the brain in a tiny cave, behind and above the pituitary gland, which lies a little behind the root of the nose. It is located directly behind the eyes, attached to the third ventricle.

[Lee N. Field]

Yes..because that is how we signal the Holy Spirit through prayer...

Through the pineal gland? Care to document that?

[left that other site]

Wow, Tzfat, thank you for the Hebrew Words!

Do you speak Yiddish also? I understand a lot of Yiddish, and although a lot of Yiddish words are Germanic or Slavic in origin, the word for “face” is “punim” which has a similar sound to the Hebrew word you used for face. (panyim).

Please be patient with my ignorance, as I am actually an Irish Indian, and a Bass-Player to boot(LOL), and I am trying to teach myself these things using an Interlinear Bible. It IS a Struggle!

Do you think there is a relationship between the two words?

[norge]

...do you think that God established the Bible for us to “read into it what we will...”

No. But in His wisdom, I think He sometimes may have had writers write precisely what He meant.

Too many times, I think, people treat the Bible as if it were a game, like Clue, and flail away trying to find a hidden meaning.

BTW, my take on the Trinity is "three Persons in One." I don't pretend to comprehend it.

[TaraP]

I am saying what Jesus said...

The Kingdom of GOD is within you and outside of you.....

If we are created in the *Likeness of GOD* what does that mean? the way GOD looks? the way GOD operates? the way GOD thinks?

We are not GOD we are his creation...We can look within ourselves to connect with the Spirt of GOD which I believe is in our Brain and Heart....

[Tzfat]

every dot and tittle has a meaning

More true than most on this thread can imagine! There are levels of depth in the Hebrew that simply cannot be fully plumbed. Even the spaces are counted in the Hebrew text, and they as well have meaning.

However, the Almighty speaks in the language of men. He means to be understood, clearly and literally. He uses the language of the hearer/reader (in this case, the original reader). That means that you will never fully understand Scripture if you do not understand the people of the Book. Attempts to Hellenize the Scriptures both the "New Testament" and the "Old Testament" erases the language and the culture of the people who wrote down the Almighty's words, and were the first readers of those words. This can lead to all sorts of twisting of meaning.

For instance, in Matthew 19:24, Jesus says, "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of G-d."

In the Fifth Century, Jerome was living in Bethleham translating the Greek into Latin. He tried to understand this phrase, but without the help of those that knew the idioms of the day. He made up this eloborate theological system which spoke of a gate called "the eye of the needle" in Jerusalem, and camels had to unburden themselves to go through it to get into the city - therefore, rich people had to "unburden themselves" from their riches to get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is utter nonsense. There was never a gate called "the eye of the needle" in Jerusalem. Camels are unclean, they are not allowed into the city. Instead, if he had humbled himself, and simply ASKED, he would have discovered that the notion of a "camel going through the eye of a needle" is simply an idiomatic way of saying that something is impossible. Something similar is in the Talmud. The key to the verse is not rich people giving away all their wealth (no doubt to the church). No, the point is, what He actuially says in verse 26, "With men this is impossible; but with G=d all things are possible." You see, He speaks in the language of men.

[Tzfat]

Do you speak Yiddish also

I do not. Yiddish is a combination of German, Hebrew, and some Russion - written in Hebrew block letters. So, I can read it, but I cannot comprehend all the words.

[Larry Lucido]

I believe this: “a time, and times, and half a time”

Do you know how long that is?

[TaraP]

EPHESIANS 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

PSALM 139:
O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.

4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

5 You hem me in—behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

This gland is involved in the regulation of melatonin synthesis. It acts as a link between the nervous system and the endocrine (hormonal) system. A rhythmic melatonin signal from the pineal controls photoperiod (day length differences of summer and winter) responses in many species showing seasonal cycles in reproduction, moulting and other processes.

[valkyry1]

What an image.

[TaraP]

Do you think that scripture in Genesis is Jacob encountering G-D through the Pineal Gland? Is that spoken of in the Zohar?

[circlecity]

"There is no such word in the Hebrew text of Genesis 32:31..."

I was referring to verse 30.

[TheBattman]

Yep - a growing exegetical problem with many who think they have really latched on to something.

The two words being compared and connected are in no-way connected in reality. Very dangerous method of “interpreting”...

[left that other site]

Oh, OK. I know a lot of it from Show Business. It is an extremely colorful and expressive language, but it is, of course, the language of Diaspora, which, Thank G-d, is no more.

Leo Rosen wrote a book called “The Joys of Yiddish” which has a lot of very humorous stories and proverbs from the language.

A lot of American English words are from this rapidly disappearing language, and people don’t even realize it.

The word “Boss” is from Yiddish.
The word “OK” is from Lakota! (not my Tribe, but nearby!):-)

Shalom!

[TheBattman]

One possibility could be that we are made as a trinity: Body, Spirit, and Soul.

That would be the most logical and exegetically correct.

[RnMomof7]

He saw Christ face to face, not the Father

[plinyelder]

Why is Everything blasphemy??

Do you even know the meaning?

[I still care]

So many Christians are unaware that Christian theologists believe Jesus came many times to men in the OT.

He is usually described as “The Angel of the Lord”.

For instance, in the fire with Daniel. If you read the verses where it talks about this particular angel, you can usually see a verse or two down where the Angel will make or act as God, for instance, accepting worship, or declaring something only God can say.

[Ripliancum]

Because he did. So did others.

Gen. 32: 30 I have seen God face to face.
Ex. 3: 6 Moses . . . was afraid to look upon God.
Ex. 19: 11 Lord will come down in the sight of all the people.
Ex. 19: 21 charge the people, lest they break through unto the Lord to gaze.
Ex. 24: 11 nobles of the children of Israel . . . saw God.
Ex. 33: 11 Lord spake unto Moses face to face.
Num. 12: 8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth.
Deut. 34: 10 Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.
Judg. 13: 22 We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
1 Kgs. 11: 9 Lord . . . had appeared unto him twice.
Isa. 6: 5 mine eyes have seen . . . the Lord.
Matt. 11: 27 Father . . . to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
John 14: 21 I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Acts 7: 56 I see . . . the Son of man standing on the right hand.
Heb. 12: 14 holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
1 Jn. 3: 2 we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
Rev. 1: 17 when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead.
Rev. 22: 4 they shall see his face.

[LiteKeeper]

He, as so many others in the Old Testament accounts of history, saw the Second Person of the Trinity. It is called a Christophany.

[count-your-change]

“I am saying what Jesus said...
The Kingdom of GOD is within you and outside of you”

What Jesus said, in Greek, was “entoV umwn”, which Thayer’s and many translations read as “among you (plural)” or
“in your midst”, which agrees with the context and N.T. understanding of what the kingdom is.