On intemperate and indiscreet zeal. (The Primary Fault of many Religion Forum posters)

Various | Various | Various

[MarkBsnr]

In WNY or southern Ont ,,it is malt vinegar and maybe ketchup too..but definitely the vinegar

And it must be deep fried in lard, not some eunuch oil food product created in a lab and pumped through an oil pipeline.

[Mad Dawg]

Have you read "Dominus Iesus?" I don't suggest it with the expectation that you would be persuaded, but it might be useful in understanding the details of our claim to be 'the Church'.

On another thread I put up a little passage from St. Augustine which might also help nuance the understanding of the claim.

[Godzilla]

We need to get some chili cheese fries in ya!

[Godzilla]

Man....I miss ‘em.

Fries or malt vinegar?

[RnMomof7]

I believe that NONE of us here on this forum is gifted to infallibly interpret Scripture or inerrantly determine doctrine ... and that therefore we should all bring humility to the table when we come to discuss or debate.

Agree, NO ONE can infallibly interpret scripture.. but we can use the gifts God has given us to compare scripture with scripture to draw out the meanings ..

I heard Mother Angela say that none of us can understand scripture until we die.. How sad ... God left a witness of Himself.. He left the outline for His new church, He left prophecy to assure us of His continual presence and this woman is waiting til she dies to understand it. God did not inspire the word of God to be a puzzle, He left it so that we can know Him and draw into a closer relationship with Him

We may not fully understand some things.. BUT the scriptures are clear to one that studies and prays and meditates on Gods word..

The inability to have complete understanding is not an excuse not to trust the indwelling Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth and pick up our Bibles and read

[reaganaut]

If you study carefully the various ‘schisms’ in Christianity, most are matters of governance or minor doctrines not major ones.

I think they can be ‘of God’. God gives us different ways of worshiping Him, differences in worship styles, and focii, but MOST Christian churches agree on the major points of doctrine, the important things like Salvation by Grace not works, Christ’s payment for sins on the Cross, the Virgin Birth, Sinless life of Christ. Most other things are relatively minor (like governance).

And to repeat, I do NOT like church fights over minor doctrinal differences, I think those can be about pride and cause division in the Body of Christ.

However, I also do not tolerate groups that don’t agree on the biggies (like those above) such as Mormons to CLAIM to be Christians while believing in a VERY different Christ. That is where I draw the line.

[ArrogantBustard]

No, there isn’t [a competing fray of contradictions].

Sigh.

Baptism. Eucharist. Marriage. Leadership. Worship. Structure (if any) of the Church. What is "Grace"? Who is "Saved"? How do we know? What is the relationship (if any) between "Faith" and "Works"? What is Heaven? Hell? Who shall be judged, and on what basis?

Yeah, most of us can recite the Apostles' Creed, or the Nicene Creed, and all mean pretty much the same thing by it.

Bully for us.

We still find all too much to disagree about, and generate all too much heat (and all too little light) doing it.

[reaganaut]

. I tend to lose track of all the trendy little epithets folks come up with to dehumanize those with whom they disagree.

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I started to keep track once of all the names i had been called and insults hurled at me without cause by certain posters here on FR.

The file got too large to handle in a few weeks.

[Elsie]

Hey!

[RnMomof7]

Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. Dawg, we are all imperfect "cracked" vessels ...but it is not the vessel that saves..it is what drips out

The Gospel,even in-artfully delivered or even harshly delivered will still save..because it is the gospel that saved when empowered by the Holy Spirit

I think of John Edwards "Sinners in the hands of an angry God" ..hard hitting , hard to hear ..yet it led to the great revival.. people were offended.. yet many were saved.

There is a basic theological difference in the way we view this.. I do not think man can hinder a work of God..and I believe that it is the Spirit of God that draws..not MY outstanding ..cheerful personality ..(that is a LOL)

[Elsie]

So the heathen or heretic you shun today may in fact be one of the elect.

True; but what about this statement is considered CALVINistic?

[RnMomof7]

I have never seen them with Mayo

[small voice in the wilderness]

And as to your assertions about what the Catholic Church teaches.... I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, too.

Perhaps Catholics can enlighten you. About what they teach.

I should feel humilated because I thought you were Catholic? oh, o.k. I'm sorry I thought you were Catholic. Better?

[Elsie]

Hint: I wasn't talking about Mormons. I was talking about people who call themselves Christians...

Well??

That's EXACTLY what MORMONs do!

[reaganaut]

Context. And the Bible IS CLEAR on the Majors. It is only the minor things (which is why they are minor) that it is unclear on.

I find it interesting you use similar arguments to the LDS (denigration of the Bible, number of Protestant denominations, YPIOS). Why is that?

[RnMomof7]

Now I do like chili or gravy on my fries as well.. just was giving the norm up here..

[ArrogantBustard]

Agree, NO ONE can infallibly interpret scripture.. but we can use the gifts God has given us to compare scripture with scripture to draw out the meanings ..

OK ... for the sake of discussion, we'll leave out the Pope ... he's not on this forum anyway. Benny?? Dat you??? So, while we may be able to draw out meanings ... none of us can be absolutely certain that our meaning that we think we've drawn out is correct.

I heard Mother Angela say that none of us can understand scripture until we die

Since, as you agree, none of us on this forum can infallibly interpret Scripture, it follows that none of us will truly understand it in this life. Yes, that's sad ... it's a direct and inescapable result of The Fall.

We may not fully understand some things.. BUT the scriptures are clear to one that studies and prays and meditates on Gods word..

That appears to be a contradiction. Given that we will not fully understand some things in Scripture, and that none of us interpret infallibly, to say that the Sciptures are clear to anyone is absurd. I believe that, for the one who studies and prays, Scripture at times can seem very clear (But never perfectly so. Beware.), and at times very far from clear.

The inability to have complete understanding is not an excuse not to trust the indwelling Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth and pick up our Bibles and read

It's also not an excuse to reject the visible, universal Church which God gave us.

[reaganaut]

I gave up lentils for Lent.

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ROFL!!!

I can’t do ‘Vegan’ at all. But I do like Indian cooking.

[Colofornian]

There is certainly a place for polemics in Christian apologetics...On the other hand, when polemics are used as a club, they serve the purpose of doing violence, not charity.

Dr. Brian, the heart of your citation closest to dealing with what you said (I believe) was vv. 18-20, 26:

James 1: 18 For of his own will hath he begotten us by the word of truth, that we might be some beginning of his creatures. 19 You know, my dearest brethren. And let every man be swift to hear, but slow to speak, and slow to anger. 20 For the anger of man worketh not the justice of God...

These verses clearly outline acting in anger (a key motivation you didn't mention). I think you & I would agree that some people's skin is thinner than others; but what might be deemed a "club" to one is not so to another.

James 1: 26 And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

I agree with this.

[Logophile]

For example, as a former Mormon, I am keenly aware of LDS beliefs/history/practices and I do know them better than most members (and did when I was LDS), furthermore I am aware (and was guilty of when I was LDS) of their practice of ‘lying for the Lord’ where omission obfuscation and outright lying is considered ok as long as it protects the Mormon church.

You seem to be saying that any Mormon who disagrees with you is either (1) less well informed than you are about Mormonism, or (2) lying about Mormonism. Is that what you meant to suggest?