Posted on 08/16/2010 7:21:49 AM PDT by NYer
"There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no such thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching. No such thing. Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and His body. They become dead members of the body of Christ.
You should avoid such people like the plague and you should keep your children from such people as though keeping them from the worst contagion, because contact with such people can poison their minds, poison their souls and kill them morally and spiritually, and you don't want to be responsible for that. That is not lack of charity, that is not lack of pastoral concern. That IS charity, that IS being pastoral and that IS being merciful. It is not merciful to turn our children over to those that can poison their hearts and minds. That is not charitable, merciful, nor pastoral.
Pray for people that attack the Church, the Holy Father, the Magisterium. Pray for them, love them indeed, but don't listen to them and don't put yourselves nor your children in a position where they or you can be influenced.
Let me tell you something. The devil is smarter than you and me. He is a very high angel fallen from grace. Yet God has allow him to retain that very high angelic intelligence. You will not outwit the devil; he's very clever. Through true humility, through grace and through prayer, you win the battle. But don't be presumptuous and think that out of some kind of misguided notion of being 'open', of being 'tolerant,' that you can subject yourself and your children to all forms of philosophical and theological error.
Now I'll put this very simply. As some of my rancher friends from Wyoming would put it, if you soak in a tub of manure, you might come out smelling funny. Well, if you soak in error, if you put yourself in an environment of religious error, theological and philosophical error, you're apt to pick some of the smelly contagion of it. Don't do that. That's not smart.
There's a story from the annals of the Post Resurrection Church of St. John the Evangelist, the beloved disciple, who went to Ephesus. And the Blessed Mother went with him. And they say that St. John was within the public baths of Ephesus and a heretic came in from the other end of the public baths and word of his presence got to the other side to St. John. Now this is the Apostle that preached Love, right? St. John, the one who said God is Love. In his old age, the only thing St. John could say was 'Love God." That's all he could say. He got word that a heretic had just come in the building, he leaped up, grabbed his clothes and ran out of the building yelling "run for your lives, the heretic 'so-and-so' just came in the house." That was his attitude.
I'll tell you something, I used to contest with these people. I used to debate with them. I used to engage in apologetics with them. I don't do it anymore and I'm going to tell you something. For the most part, I am more qualified to do it than you are, than most of you. I've got a doctorate, I've got five degrees in Theology and Philosophy. I know the material, but I don't do it because it is an exercise in futility and I don't want to drive myself 'nuts,' in plain English, and it doesn't work. Now, if I have to defend the faith, I'll do that, but I do not engage in debates with people, especially with people who have lost the faith. There's an axiom in metaphysics, 'Things are received in the mode of the receiver.' I say this over and over again. You get what you're ready to get, you receive what you're ready to receive."
Fr. John Corapi, SOLT
Where have you been OR? I hadn’t seen you in a while and my thoughts and prayers were with you.
Hugs!
Only catholics would say/think that about God’s Word.
Just more mindless babble from the ‘God’s Word is Not Enough, Hail Mary’ crowd.
Compare and contrast this with 150-200 Hail Mary's.
RNMOMOF7: WHAT ??? They are inspired infallible scripture. The writings of Paul were called scripture by Peter. DID Peter error in a matter of faith and doctrine?? Tell me it's not so ......LOL
Astounding. I can't even imagine that Rome is teaching this kind of gibberish. The majority of the holy Bible is "not revelation"???
They just make this stuff up as they go along.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" -- 2 Timothy 3:16
Does Rome consider "the letters and Epistles" to be Scripture? If they are Scripture, then they are "inspired" which is the definition of the "revelation" of God concerning His word.
SHIRLEY you jest. Natural Law. Paul's Epistles and letters were not revelation? That would be news to him. And to Jesus Christ, who gave Paul the revelationS. More than one.
"..I HAVE APPEARED UNTO THEE for this purpose, to make thee a minister and an witness both of THESE THINGS WHICH THOU HAST SEEN, and of THOSE THINGS IN THE WHICH I WILL APPEAR UNTO THEE." (Acts 26:16).
That is how the Church the Body of Christ was formed. By direct revelations from Jesus Christ to Paul.
"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:1). As Paul was being led by revelations from Christ, believers were to follow him.
Oh wow....we all know the old testament speaks of His coming....the gospels he’s here and revelation he is coming again....the whole Bible speaks of the “revelation of Christ” in every way. Anyone who can say it doesn’t has a serious problem understanding the relationship between God...His Son...and the people.
Huh? Here's a chance to revise and extend your remarks. Please.
Of course they are, no one said they weren't. That being said, not all Scripture is revelation.
Perhaps the real issue about these buildings lies in this statement, naturally not as developed in the news story which is emphasizing the rebellion/ conflict itself but not the “why’s” surrounding the conflict. The parishioners are saying the buildings were closed to pay for the costs surrounding the priest sex abuse scandals. A line further down the story has laity stating they were holding the “Bishops accountable for their protecting the internal hierarchy” and not putting the needs of parishioners first!
It seems to me these Catholics love their church and Christ but not their Bishops very well. God bless them on their attempted journey to restore faith and vigor to their Church!
And perhaps they fell in love with their dying "home" Irish, French, Polish, etc., Parish and couldn't abide merging with the "outsiders".
Interestingly, Dear Sister, one of the web pages on the Rosary features a MIDI file of a synthesizer playing "Ave Maria". (Unfortunately, it sounds a bit like the version I programmed to play on the built-in synth chip in the Apple//gs...)
~~~~~~~
Since I don't even have a code compiler loaded right now, I doubt that I would take the effort quite that far -- but... who knows...?
I am intrigued with the somewhat intricate logic of the flow of the repetitions -- particularly when one includes the specificity for selecting the appropriate "mystery" of the moment. Obviously, considerable thought went into formulating it. For certain, the Rosary has more complexity and variety "built" into it than I realized before undertaking to comprehend and codify its flow.
Right now, I have a sheet in Canvas open and am sketching a flow diagram...
This is SO interesting, TxnMA! I can’t wait to see what you come up with! I hope you will *ping* me with any updates! Thanks, smvoice
ping-a-ling
Here’s another one for your list...
When they have no rebuttal, they either throw stones or stomp their feet and withdraw which is what Corapi advises.
As Alamo-Girl said, if Paul and the apostles had followed Corapi’s advice, Christianity would have withered on the vine. Instead, Paul didn’t whine; he stood strong for the truth and declared the weight of the word of God in all matters.
The Gospels record the fulfillment of the Law that Jesus said He came to do.
Technically, that would appropriately place them in the Old Testament. From the Resurrection and Acts on is the church age, where the new covenant is put into effect.
Exactly that is why Paul was accepted as an apostle
It's not about feeling OR, it's about what's pleasing to the Lord and a help in our holiness. Is it displeasing to god and damaging to our salvation to say a prayer more than once?
And in the words of Jesus it is called "babbling".
I guess I will rely on Scripture for my expertise. You are free to rely on any number of "expert" men and their magical formulae. How's that?
So in your expert opinion is it a one and done thing?
I am not the "expert". The words of Jesus are; however, "expert".
If the men you listen to tell you 150-200 rapidly mumbled repetitions of the Hail Mary are pleasing to God so be it.
So, Peter was wrong?
It must be nice to think that one knows more than Peter himself.
You ever think for running for pope?
AMEN!
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." -- 1 Corinthians 2:9-10 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
I wonder if the rest of the Catholics on FR feel the same way.
I wonder if the rest of the Catholics on FR feel the same way about this one, too.
That is how the Church the Body of Christ was formed. By direct revelations from Jesus Christ to Paul.
AMEN! Is it possible the entire Roman Catholic church does not understand this most basic fact of the Christian religion?
——— That being said, not all Scripture is revelation. -——
Let me get this straight ..they are inspired words BUT NOT REVEALED.. Of course they are not like the “revelations “ of Mary as perpetual sinless virgin assumed into heaven , because these revelations came from God ..
rev·e·la·tion
–noun
1.
the act of revealing or disclosing; disclosure.
2.
something revealed or disclosed, esp. a striking disclosure, as of something not before realized.
3.
Theology .
a.
God’s disclosure of Himself and His will to His creatures.
b.
an instance of such communication or disclosure.
c.
something thus communicated or disclosed.
d.
something that contains such disclosure, as the Bible.
4.
( initial capital letter ) Also called Revelations, The Revelation of St. John the Divine. the last book in the new testament; the Apocalypse. Abbreviation: Rev.
Hugs!
Thank you very much. I was absent for a while and am now "surfing" and jumping in on occassion.
:>)
Gazing constantly at the lamp in the corner is NO way to see the elephant standing right in front of you!
Exactly
OK, I don't want to put any words in your mouth so correct me if I misunderstand you here: saying a prayer more than once is what Jesus called "babbling". Can you give chapter and verse on that?
I am not the "expert". The words of Jesus are; however, "expert".
Totally agree.
If the men you listen to tell you 150-200 rapidly mumbled repetitions of the Hail Mary are pleasing to God so be it.
I have never in my live been told that rapidly mumbling prayers was pleasing to anyone, ever.
They are not taught and most do not seek out scripture for themselves.
Some have even questioned that ALL scripture was written by prophets..
They tend to want to box things..like 'revelation is a vision or Prophets tell the future.. They do not understand the most basic information for rightly dividing the word of God
It’s great to see that you are well. :)
Glad you are back !!!
Not all that is revealed is revelation. The Apostolic Tradition and entire Old Testament are included in the Revealed Word of God, but not all of that is revelation.
AMEN! Unless the Holy Spirit lights our study, the Bible is simply words on a page.
"It is the peculiar work of the Holy Spirit to sprinkle our consciences inwardly with the blood of Christ, and, by removing the sense of guilt, to secure our access into the presence of God...God does not bestow the Spirit on His people in order to set aside the use of His word, but rather to render it fruitful...The Spirit is given to us, not that he may bring contempt of the word, but rather to instill into our minds and write in our hearts the faith thereof." -- John Calvin
The fact that Rome disagrees with the above statements illustrates that Rome has taken the office and responsibility and glory of the Holy Spirit and handed it over the the pope and his magisterium.
Gazing constantly at the lamp in the corner is NO way to see the elephant standing right in front of you!
lol. But it does mesmerize, making it easier for superstition to take root.
“for His mercy endureth forever” is the same prayer phrase repeated 27 times. Look it up!
I suppose you think the Our Father is vain repetition, too, since it’s said 6 times in the Rosary. As well as the Glory Be. The Hail Mary is straight out of Holy Scripture (Luke 1), so if you have a problem with it, complain to God.
The Hail Mary is straight out of Holy Scripture, so why do you have a problem with it?
Of course saying it "six times" is "vain repetition." Jesus Christ tells us that plainly.
And yet Rome still misses that fact.
The rosary is vain repetition, as Christ explained, because it repeats the same prayer over and over. That is the defintion of “repetition.”
It is also a prayer to someone other than God.
And it’s counted according to beads. A talisman. Ritualistic superstition.
Three strikes and it’s out.
OK, I don't want to put any words in your mouth so correct me if I misunderstand you here: saying a prayer more than once is what Jesus called "babbling". Can you give chapter and verse on that?
Well, Jesus didn't give an exact count. I suspect, however, that Hre might have thought 200 repitions a little much.
Matthew 6:7 In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words.
If the men you listen to tell you 150-200 rapidly mumbled repetitions of the Hail Mary are pleasing to God so be it.
I have never in my live been told that rapidly mumbling prayers was pleasing to anyone, ever.
Then you have never in your life heard the Hail Mary said repetively.
It is included in a prayer with 27 different thoughts. It is not the same prayer.
I suppose you think the Our Father is vain repetition, too, since it’s said 6 times in the Rosary. As well as the Glory Be. The Hail Mary is straight out of Holy Scripture (Luke 1), so if you have a problem with it, complain to God.
The Hail Mary is definitely not in Scripture. If you have a problem with that take it up with the men who told you that.
The apostolic tradition taught by the catholic church .. ..not revelation..the entire word of God..... revelation .. jesus showed that to the the apostles on the Road to Emmaus
It is sad that Catholics have so little understanding of the word of God.
RCC teachings are NOT Scriptural. The RCC’s problem, not mine, the Mary of the Bible wasn’t good enough - a faithful servant. So they added titles and co-titles, powers to, prayers to.
Going around in circles trying to make heresy not look like heresy is a chosen career for some.
I see, sort of subject to interpretation I guess.
Then you have never in your life heard the Hail Mary said repetively.
Herd it! Heck Ive done it! Many Many times: and I'll do it again soon, maybe tonight, maybe for you! But that wasn't your subject, you implied that we're told that rapidly mumbling 150-200 prayers is pleasing to God. I agree with Christ: babbling like pagans is bad, so I try not to when I pray, no matter how many times I happen to have said that particular prayer.
If it was quoted as scripture nothing..when it is repeated as a prayer to Mary..plenty because sripture tells us we now can approach the throne of God directly for mercy and needs.. it never tells us to run to momma
I’ve been away for most of the past two weeks. Did I miss your absence?
No revision necessary...All it takes is for a person to believe what he is reading...
In the Gospels, works are part of the equation (Mat. 25)...As compared to Eph. 2 for example...
But peter could not be wrong..this is a matter of faith and doctrine..and he was infallible :)
What is sad is that anti-Catholics have so little understanding of the Word of God and catholics that they often don't realize their error. However, most of the time their error is intentional.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.