Posted on 08/21/2010 6:34:23 AM PDT by markomalley
The Case of the Heretical Priest from Nashville is closing, we hope. Fr. Joeseph Breen posted a video on his website and committed multiple counts of video heresy. CMR picked up the video and the story went national.
Fr. Breen was given a choice by Bishop Choby of Nashville. Retract your terrible statements made in the video and abide by your promises not to do it again or you are gone. Father Breen chose to retract his statements.
Here is the official statement by the Diocese of Nashville.
Father Breen retracts statements, apologizesWhile I did call for Fr. Breen's ouster, I totally respect the Bishop's judgment in this case. Father Breen will be retiring in a year and the Bishop clearly wanted to give him an exit strategy that allowed him a graceful exit. If Father Breen abides his promises this time, I think the Bishop did the right thing.
In letters to Pope Benedict XVI and to St. Edward Parish, Father Joe Pat Breen has retracted and apologized for statements made in an internet video and subsequent media interviews that Catholics are not obligated to follow teachings of the Catholic Church as defined by the pope and bishops. In addition, he has agreed to no longer voice his private concerns publically or in the media as required by a document presented to him by Bishop Edward Kmiec in 1993.
The letter to the parish also indicated that he expects to continue as pastor of St. Edward Parish until Dec. 31, 2011.
Father Breen has shared the content of those letters with Bishop David Choby and the letter to the parish will be distributed in the next few days.
Bishop Choby offered Father Breen the choice of retracting and apologizing for his statements or face the process set forth for the removal of a pastor under canon law when a ministry becomes harmful or ineffective.
The offer came during a meeting on Aug. 19, a little more than two weeks after a video interview with Father Breen posted on the St. Edward Parish website received worldwide attention. It was the bishop’s second meeting with Father Breen about his statements contradicting Church teaching. Bishop Choby asked Father Breen to remove the video from the parish site on Aug. 6. The video was removed but copies remain available on the internet and have been viewed more than 14,000 times.
In the letter to the parish, Father Breen said “the meeting was cordial and fruitful.”
The terms of the 1993 ban put in place by Bishop Edward Kmiec prohibit him from making statements that disagree with the authentic magisterium of the Church.
Although the process to remove a pastor has not been used in recent memory in the Diocese of Nashville, it is used with some regularity in the worldwide Church.
“The role of pastor is particularly important as the leader and teacher of a parish,” Bishop Choby said. “The office is a direct link to the authority of the Church as instituted by Christ in the apostles and handed down through the popes and bishops. A pastor holds a public office charged with administering, teaching, and sanctifying the local community of the faithful. The Church expects him to work in unity with its authentic teaching as handed down through the pope and the bishops. It is simply wrong to state, as Father Breen has repeatedly, that one’s conscience frees an individual from the truth revealed and instilled in Church teaching. A deep understanding of Church teaching is, in fact essential to a fully formed conscience, and helps guide an individual in making the distinction between one’s opinions and a decision based soundly on the foundation of a rightly formed conscience. One who chooses to act contrary to Church teaching acts outside of the revealed truth of God’s will.”
“In recognition of his many years of good work among the people of his parish, I want to give Father Breen every opportunity to correct the errors in his teaching, and gracefully enter retirement,” Bishop Choby said, “but in any case, his recent public remarks could not stand.”
“Because Heaven is a place of spiritual perfection, we will go to Purgatory when we die to do penance for any sins we still are guilty of. Once we’ve paid to the last penny, we’ll be ready to be with the saints and God in Heaven”
So YOU have to pay for your sins! Because when Jesus said “thy sins are forgiven” He meant only some of them? Only the ones you were thinking of? Only the ones prior to Him saying that? I don’t remember Him putting a qualifier on that statement.
I KNOW that Jesus paid for mine and when I die I will appear before the Father as if Jesus were standing there because I will be going “in Jesus name” as he told me to do. My sins have been forgiven!! I trust Jesus totally!!! He was the perfect sacrifice for MY sins.
I’m sorry you think that Jesus sacrifice wasn’t good enough for ALL our sins. You can’t have it both ways. He either paid the price totally or He didn’t and you have to “take up the slack” by somehow paying for the ones He missed.
When Peter denied Christ three times, he was forgiven by Christ’s death on the cross. But he still had to pay a price. After the Resurrection, he was publicly humiliated by being asked by Christ three times in front of all the Apostles if he really loved Him. Peter had to be cleansed not just of the sin, but of the guilt through penitent action and active affirmation.
It is the same with us. Christ redeemed us but we continue to sin. We are redeemed because we believe in Christ and God’s mercy, but we must still go through the steps, as Peter had to, to remove the guilt of that sin through penitent actions and active affirmation of our love for God. We can do it while we are alive, through Confession and penance. After we die, if we still have unreconciled guilt on our souls, we are sent to a place we can complete the process. This is Purgatory: the place we go to wipe away the vestiges of guilt and responsibility for our sin as we affirm our love for God and our belief that He will have mercy on us. Once we have “paid the last penny” and are cleansed of the guilt, we can be united to the wonderful purity of Heaven.
The Epistles are full of comments to people who, while they believe in Christ, are still being held to account for their poor behaviours. In fact, most of the epistles were written to correct believers’ behaviours and misconceptions. Why bother if they were “saved?” Because they weren’t exonerated.
There is a personal component to Salvation that requires action/conversion/obedience of us. Today’s Gospel about the Narrow Gate was a perfect example. In Luke 13: 22-30 we hear believers say they want in to Heaven because they are familiar with Jesus and have supped with Him and listened to Him teach in their streets. He replies that He “knows them not” and tells them to “depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.”
They knew Him and called Him “Lord,” but He did not know them. Why? Because their actions were sinful. They were “workers of iniquity” and the Master locked them out.
“Christ three times in front of all the Apostles if he really loved Him”
Look at the Greek words Jesus used. The first two times He used the word Agapa which means an unconditional kind of love but Peter answered using the word Phileo or and emotional kind of love. The last time Jesus used the word Phileo which is when Peter appeared upset that Jesus had asked him a third time but this time using the word that Peter had answered with the first two times. Peter was not using the same word that has been translated love that Jesus was the first two times. There is much more to learn here from the different forms of each word used and the different commands Jesus gave to each answer Peter gave but not enough room here.
“There is a personal component to Salvation that requires action/conversion/obedience of us”
There is a very dangerous path taken with this concept. The thought that a person can, of his own accord or effort, atone for sins leads to the belief that one can earn, or be good enough, to please God. If one is to “pay” or “atone” for our sins here on earth it is denying that Jesus has already completely done that. If he did not, and we are still to do that, then His sacrifice was not complete. Of course it is true that there are consequences to our actions, thoughts, and emotions here on earth. At the point that we accept Jesus as our Savior and have the Spirit of God in us there is a separation between our earthly existence and our eternal or spiritual existence.
“. This is Purgatory: the place we go to wipe away the vestiges of guilt and responsibility for our sin”
Here, again, you are stating that Jesus sacrifice was not complete for the atonement of our sins. A concept, that states that WE must atone for the sins that Jesus sacrifice missed.
Purgatory is a word used to describe the place where those who died, who had obeyed all the Old Testament laws went before Jesus “redeemed us all” on the cross. Before Jesus death/sacrifice on the cross the souls of the faithful, under the law, went to Sheol or Hades. The souls of those unfaithful went to Gehanna which was separated from Sheol. Jesus went, when He “descended into Hell/Purgatory/Sheol” with the “keys of Sheol/Hades” to released those faithful to take them with him to heaven. The “holding place” that was Sheol was needed because Jesus had not yet made the perfect sacrifice. Once Jesus died on the cross that sacrifice had been made and there was no more need for a “holding place”. Today, because of the sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb redeemed souls go directly to heaven.
Once again, I will state that to believe that a person needs to atone for his own sins is to deny that Jesus sacrifice on the cross was somehow not complete.
The last point you made was of people calling him Lord. Once again, the original word needs to be looked at. In England, people are referred to as lord. That certainly is different then when we call Jesus Lord. When a person said lord, lord, they were not saying the same as when we call Jesus Lord.
If I say we have a personal responsibility for our behaviours and for atoning to God for our sins, it does not mean Christ’s sacrifice was not enough. It does not mean we can do it alone, without Christ. That is not what I said.
The door to Heaven had been closed to all souls prior to His sacrifice. He opened the door through His death and resurrection. It is our job, as revealed countless times in the Gospels, to choose the right path to walk through that door. We still have free will, even after we have the conversion moment and are “saved.”
We have free will to continue to choose to follow Christ every day of the rest of our lives. We are responsible for those choices for the rest of our lives. Christ’s words make it very clear that how people behave is still critical. We see this in Matt 5 when He speaks of casting off anything that leads you to sin or be thrown into Hell. Why even mention this if they were “saved?”
In Matt 5:19-20 we see that keeping the commandments is critical and we learn that if our justice is not greater than the Pharisees, we shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven. Clearly there are some who believe who will receive harsh judgement.
Finally, in Matt 5:22 He tells us that if we are angry with our brother we are in danger of judgement. Christ says whoever calls someone else a fool shall be in danger of the fires of Hell. He is talking to His disciples here; people who are believe in Him already. Again, clearly, our actions matter even when we believe in Christ as our Savior.
This concept is stated over and over in the New Testament. We are redeemed but we must choose to be worthy of that redemption every day. We must fight for our redemption and “work it out” in fear and trembling. Christ’s many parables highlight this also.
Why did He even tell us all these stories about how to be righteous if sin did not matter after He “saved” us? Why bother to tell us how to behave at all? Because our actions still matter after the moment we believe. Indeed, they matter EVEN MORE.
If we sin after hearing God’s Word, we are like the soil that got the good seed and took root but was plucked away by crows. The good seed, the Word, must be absorbed, nurtured, tended, and carefully grown within us. THAT’s what we are accountable for. If we believe the Word, certain actions MUST follow.
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph. 2:9: No one deserves salvation. It cannot be earned by what the Bible calls “dead works” (Heb. 6:1; 9:14). Dead works include all religious activities, good deeds, or charity that one may do as a means of being justified before God. Faith towards God and what He has done through Christ Jesus is the only means of receiving His free gift of salvation.
To trust in any human work or effort as a means of salvation is to fall from grace and to sever one’s self from the Savior (Gal. 5:4). No one can be saved by the combination of grace and works, for they exclude each other (Rom. 11:6). You must be saved by grace through faith alone or your works must meet the standard of God’s perfection set down by His holy law (Rom. 2:13). “Therefore a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Rom. 3:28; Gal. 2:16).
Eph. 2:9: God has designed salvation in such a way as to eliminate any boasting from man. If salvation was by works either partially or wholly, then man could boast. But grace and faith eliminate man’s boasting altogether (Rom. 3:27;). Salvation by grace brings praise and glory to God. If we could save ourselves, either partially or wholly, we would take the credit for it. But that is not the case. All the glory goes to God.
Isaiah 64:6 (KJV) But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
If all our righteousness are as filthy rags, how could it be possible to atone for our sins
The simple answer is that we are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8), and not by works. However, one has to remember that it is not enough to simply say “I believe”, and then do nothing.
The bible says, “Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but rather he who does the will of my Father” (Matthew 7:21) Therefore, it must be assumed that works are indeed a necessary component of one’s faith. Too many people think that faith means giving God lip service only (”This generation honors me with their lips, while their heart is far from me”, Matthew 15:18), rather than actually doing good deeds for others.
Another thing to remember is that the Jews of Paul’s day had many observances of the law that they had to keep, like not eating pork, ritual hand-washing, not eating meat with blood in it, etc. Paul may have been referring to these ritualistic works when he used the term “dead works” (Hebrews 9:14). In fact, in Romans 3:20, Paul says, “Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin”, a very clear distinction between works of the law and doing good deeds as a result of your faith.
During the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther took it upon himself to change the understanding of the Bible around to fit his own particular theology. Not only did he throw out seven complete books of the Old Testament and parts of two other books, he also implied that Christians are saved by faith alone, because of Romans 3:28, which states “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law”, rather than the way it was taught for over 1100 years. He even inserted the word “alone” into Romans 3:28 when he translated it.
One has to wonder about the wisdom of changing the interpretation of the divinely inspired Word of God to fit your own theology, especially after 11 centuries. The only time you actually do see the words faith and alone together in a sentence is in James 2:24, where James says, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”. (James 2:24)
Finally, I suppose Christ wanted atonement for our sins, since He set it up that way. He made Peter atone 3 times for the 3 denials. The early Church believed in the act of Confession (James 5:16; 1John1:9). Especially important is Acts 2:27 “Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, nor suffer the Holy One to see corruption.” God cannot be near corruption of sin so we must atone for it before reaching Heaven.
In Apocalypse 20:13 tells us the dead were judged according to their works. Clearly all these passages indicate the Catholic position is correct: works are important in salvation. They have an impact on your salvation. They are required by Christ. Faith is first; works must follow.
Hope that helps you understand the Catholic position. I am signing off this thread now. God bless you.
I wanted to say that I truly enjoyed our discussion. I do understand the Catholic position but disagree with much of it as our discussion has probably shown you.
Again, thanks for the great discussion, you are well studied and firm in your beleifs and I appreciate that and respect that. God bless!!
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