Skip to comments.Intended Catholic Dictatorship
Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
You must mean 'unless you are Catholic', because that appears to be the hallmark of Catholic Christianity on FR...
So then the question is how and to what extent is partaking of both kinds necessary. For example, would it be necessary for whom gluten provokes a nasty reaction to partake of the Sacred Body, even though the 'accidents' remain? What EXACTLY would someone who could not safely eat the "accidents" of bread be missing if he only received the Precious Blood.
Have we not heard time after time that the bread becomes no longer bread, except in touch, taste, appearance, sound and taste???
Well I'll be in good company then...
A few words from the late Dietrich Von Hildebrand comes to mind too..
mindful of the words of Our Lord, I came not to send peace, but the sword (Matt. 10:34), we should be warriors of Christ. The holy Church on earth is called ecclesia militaris (the Church militant). We cannot at the same time hunger and thirst after justicean inherent basic attitude of the true Christianand be at universal peace with the doers of evil and the unjust. The meek St. John the Evangelist goes so far as to advise the faithful against greeting heretics (2 John 10-11).-Dietrich Von Hildebrand -Transformation in Christ, 349-350.
If that is so and this is the obvious correct interpretation - as I believe it is - then whatever further conclusions necessarily result from it, well, are the result of the most correct interpretation.
Ok, first of all I need to make a very important point:
Earlier this year I bought 12 pairs of socks, 6 of those pairs are matching socks. I threw out every other pair of socks I owned. Now I was just in the bedroom going through my sock drawer and there are thirteen socks in there and no two of them match. I believe, mathematically that’s impossible! On top of that, WHERE are the other 11 socks?!
It is in this state of mind that I respond, so be advised.
What, my dear brethren, would you have me do? Channel Cato and end every post with “Furthermore I believe the vile heretic Quix should be put down like a Carthaginian elephant”? How’s that working out for everyone else anyhow? Making lots of progress on that front are you?
Look, if I spent my time pinning down everyone who said or wrote something that confused, offended, angered or saddened me I’d never get anything else done. We pick our battles and this is NOT the hill I want to die on.
I know there are wiser minds than my own on this forum and everyone approaches each situation according to their own understanding. I understand this much about myself, if I wrap myself in the Vatican flag and charge into battle with a statue of the Sacred Heart on my right and a statue of Our Lady on my left and just let it all hang out I’ll get zotted so hard and fast I’ll leave a mark across the entire series of tubes. I have a great deal of difficulty finding a happy medium, I can either be “Humorous, Helpful and Odd” or I can be mean, nasty and self-righteous.
And I STILL won’t have all my socks!
Furthermore I believe the vile heretic Quix should be put down like a Carthaginian elephant
What a tag line!
Ceterum censeo Quix(otic) esse delendam!
I’m still wondering why so much of this thread has to be about one poster named Quix.
I thought that threads were supposed to be about topics and not principally about posters.
It’s getting tiresome.
This is all fine ,dear friend as long as we don't compromise our Catholic faith to reach out. Humility is the key(which we all have a hard time living out,especially me)
From the words of Blessed Saint Padre Pio ...
Humility, humility and always humility. Satan fears and trembles before humble souls. The Lord is willing to do great things but on condition that we are truly humble.-Saint Padre Pio
BTW, I enjoy how you present things in your posts. Socks-that was great!
If the idea isn't real what are you talking about? You mean making your ideas come to pass, but the idea itself is real whether or not you fulfill it. And the point was using an analogy "as ideas are real..."
The matter doesn't change...The substance doesn't change
As has been said many times, "substance" here is a term of art; it is not the same as matter.
I have an idea that my truck is a brand new dual wheel F350 but alas, when my head clears, it's the same of clunker than it was before the idea was conceived.
Your truck's matter has changed in some way every single instant that you have had it - from brand new until right now. But it is still your truck, You'd even say "I've had the same truck for five years now. But according to your "idea" of "real" this statement is not true about your truck, because its matter has changed.
Socks indeed. One of many secular mysteries for which answer can never be found. Where did that sock go? Why a duck? Whose on first? What is a wavicle?
If she weighs the same as a duck she's made of wood and therefore a witch!
Where did that sock go?
Listen very carefully for I shall say this only once: Protestant sock botherers. In UFOs.
Whose on first?
Whose what is on first?
What is a wavicle?
A half melted fudgesicle.
Catholicism: providing the answers to the questions that matter since Pentecost(TM).
You must mean ‘unless you are Catholic’, because that appears to be the hallmark of Catholic Christianity on FR...
THAT seems to virtually never be remembered . . . oh so chronically conveniently by virtually all the RC’s.
Thanks for your humblingly kind words.
God’s best to you and yours.
Yet another post I enjoyed.
Happy to oblige.
Mascots are rarely choosey.
Authentic Christians are not abducted by UFO critters.
In every rare example where there was thought to be an exception, a connection with the occult as well as a very compromised Christianty was found.
Or Attila, or, well you get the picture.
First of all, the current state called “Israel” is not neccessarly the Israel of prophecy. For one thing, they are not a theocracy but a socialist state. For another they do not have a king.
And to be honest, the early Christian's would be rather shocked you were taking the Israel of prophecy that way. They viewed it as the Church from very early on.
Only since about 300-400 AD.
Proddies don’t believe the Vatican’s rubber histories.
I was posting Aquinas not as authority to be swallowed whole least of all by people who don’t believe in, well, a whole bunch o’ stuff.
So the point is that he addresses the issue. It feels a little ridiculous to have to mention this, but I think Aquinas may have looked in a Bible once or twice.
I think the protasis is important in your problematic text. (Do you know what it’s a quote from?) Aquinas also thinks that prime matter is made of the four elements. And he didn’t think the “conceptus” was human until weeks after conception. (He was still against abortion.)
I do not agree with either of these thoughts of his. But they were excommunicating heretics, and running them out of town and/or killing them long before and long after him. We don’t kill forgers and most malefactors these days either. And nobody had started doing real chemistry, and he didn’t have the knowledge of embryology that we have.
I don’t see the relevance of these things to his usefulness in working out transubstantiation.
Where did you get a picture of Grandpa?
Though his ears were bigger :)
Yes, that helps, thank you.
Our preconceived notions may not be true.
When it comes to eschatology and the afterlife, I think it's beyond our concepts - as far beyond as life is to the concepts of an infant in the womb.
However, UFOs, body snatching, bioengineering, holograms - these are all very much within our concepts, concepts that have even been made into lots of movies.
So if the measure is "beyond our preconceived notions," these fanciful tales fail there as well.
That would be fine.
I said nothing of the kind.
Further, I put "idea" in quotes and explained:
I am using "idea" in this, though the term "form" is probably more usual. But I think for materialists, "form" is a confusing term.
I also said the "idea" was not in my head, while my understanding of the "idea" was, at least, mine, though not adequate to the "idea."
In other words, for someone who was reading this little effort, there were plenty of clues that saying,
I wish all my ideas were real...
would be to exhibit a complete misunderstanding of what I had said.
I am using the word "understanding" to talk about a personal event. I am using the word "idea" to represent something that is not "just in our heads."
(BTW, for the peanut gallery: I chose to use the word "idea" not only because I thought "form" would lead to even more confusion, but also in homage to Plato and ειδος.) How much does the difference between a gold ring and a gold wedding ring weigh? What color is the difference? IS there a difference?
Will you grant me that there are no perfect material instantiations of 'triangle," or of "circle"? A Circle is "a set of all the points lying in a plane, equidistant from a given point."
A triangle whose base is the diameter of a circle and whose apex is one of the points of that circle (But, of course, not either of the points where the diameter intersects the circle), the angle subtended by the diameter will be a right angle.
That was true before there were any humans, or before any humans started doing geometry. If somebody ignorant of geometry said, 'I bet the angle as described, subtended by the diameter, is NOT a right angle," that would be an 'idea' in your sense.
In the sense of my post it would be an understanding. It would also be wrong.
But we're talking about things which have no perfect material instantiation: "Just" "ideas." So what does it mean to say it's "wrong?" it's just an 'idea,' You say it doesn't exist. How can it be right or wrong.
A drunk runs over an infant, killing him. He bribes the judge and is given parole. What's WRONG with this? Isn't "wrongness" just an idea? What are we talking about, if not an "idea", when we question the justice of a killer getting a slap on the wrist?
Something doesn't become real by thinking it...Is that true or false? It seems to be an "idea", about thought, material, and causation.
What ARE thought, material, causation, truth, and falsehood?
How can you say, "This is a good thought, but that a bad one?" Are a tomato and the gas inside a balloon both "matter"? "Matter" would seem to be an idea, since gas and a tomato are very unlike one another.
Why do you say this causes that when you never see a "cause" but only two things happening simultaneously after a series of events? How much does a cause weigh, what color is it? IS cause "real"? If not, what are we talking about when we talk about it, UNreality?
Your language betrays the position you appear to be trying to advocate.
The wrenching out of context and misconstruing was so obviously lame and so easily pointed out that, though a few on the non-Catholic side applauded, the minute the pointing out process began they all melted back into the night.
And still, with all that, I've come away with the same things we started with. There is a chasm which separates us which no amount of "unity" or "ecumenacalism" can overcome, unless we just give up our beliefs and follow for the sake of getting along.
With only two exceptions. Mary is "venerated", not "worshiped" by Catholics. That is so thin as to not be worthy of normal conversation. And Proddys are considered "separate brethren" by Catholics, not saved with the fullness that Catholics will enjoy.
Two things. And that is being kind. Can anyone add anything else they have learned that they did not know when this thread began?
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
What is ownership? What color, weight, smell, taste? If I say, "That truck belongs to the proletariat as represented by the Dear Zero Obamanation," that's just an idea, right? It's not real? And especially it's not any more (or less) real than the idea that it's wrong for me to say or think that?
There's 'really' nothing to disagree about, so if you'll just hand me the keys, I'll be out of your hair.
I just wish to note for the record that FREEPER Jesse Marcel Jr did reply in the referent post.
I ALSO WISH TO ASK THOSE PINGED TO PRAY FOR JESSE JR'S HEALTH, comfort and well being. He is 100% disabled from Iraq tourS injuries late in his Army surgeon's life. He was called back from retirement due to his rare specialty being so needed.
I gleaned some prayer warriors for a one time ping to ping and pray for this fine FREEPER VETERAN from the prayer thread for our heros.
And to note again that the dispicable juvenile insults against him by asserting that he was a nonexistent authority were outrageously way over the line of any semblence of decency, civility or kosherness regarding this VERY DECORATED, 74 year old 100% disabled Vet, Army Surgeon, Iraq Veteran, Dedicated, authentic Roman Catholic, Roswell UFO debris handler.
I realize it is against the hostile folks religion to apologize. However, I do wish to note it is highly in order for them to do so.
Below are youtube interviews with him and one with his father, Jesse Marcel Senior from 1984. Jesse Marcel SR was responsible for picking the UFO debris up initially.
CBS MUFON 2006 UFO Symposium Coverage Jesse Marcel Jr:
Larry King Live on UFO's - July 2007 (Part 4 of 6) WITH STANTON FRIEDMAN & JESSE MARCEL JR
Larry King Live on UFO's - July 2007 (Part 5 of 6) WITH STANTON FRIEDMAN & JESSE MARCEL JR
JESSE MARCEL SENIOR: Former Major Jesse Marcel in his own words
The Roswell Incident pt2 JESSE MARCEL JR
Don't look at me. I'm not suggesting that you “channel Cato...” etc., etc., etc. I just didn't think that communications was the real topic.
I apologize that I did not notice all that and therefore did not come to your defense.
On some of those issues, my eyes glaze over in abject boredom. My flaw. Sorry.
Prayers up for Jesse Marcel Jr. Thank you for your service to our country, sir, and your love for, and dedication to, the TRUTH. May God lead you and bless you in your life’s journey. Grace and peace unto you. smvoice
I’ve gotten to know both Mad Dawg and Legatus better and for that, I’m thankful and it is worth all the rest.
I’ve also realized how horribly bitter, resentful, hostile, angry, seemingly willfully blind etc. some of the rabid clique folks are . . . and that is good to know.
I have come to appreciate at a deeper level the futility in communicating with many of those sorts of characters. That is worth knowing.
I’ve seen a very treasured FREEPER DISABLED VET insulted beyond all reason for not the faintest rational reason or decency. I was shocked and outraged at that. Yet, it was good to find out how low some of the RC’s would stoop on such scores.
I was also shocked to see how relentlessly some would post brazenly untrue stuff out of their bitterness, hostility, vengeance, anger etc. That was also good to learn.
There’s more, no doubt. But that’s enough.
Then make it true, please. Give me your Catholic teaching that proves we are equal in salvation. Otherwise I will have to depend on Vatican 2 that says actually there is NO salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church.
Hi metmom....interesting to get into future possibilities and speculate how things might come together. I too have looked at Petra and it certainly could be possible.
The last I knew Jordon was goign to completely restore the area...do you have the latest?
OOOOPS, I SEE I GOOFED ON THE LINK TO PART 4 OF 6 ABOVE:
It was in this or some other thread (but a recent one) in which I learned that many non-Catholics are “materialists”.
I also learned that many non-Catholics have don’t really have what we call “Ascetical Theology” and confuse the ‘dark night’ with faithlessness and consolations with faith.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
And thanks for not pinging him. He will read as much of the thread as he cares to bother with, without a lot of extra pings.
AS one can imagine, at 74 with full disabled status, he has to shepherd his energies.
I’d heard something about Jordan going to restore it. But I haven’t heard any more. If you find out more, please ping me to it.
I don’t recall if I pinged you to #3,682
This reminds me of those who have out of the body experiences via meditation and any other venue they "believe" they are experiencing. It is very much a spiritual experience to them as well..... Further...It is so important, I think, to grasp that these things are truly 'believed' by those who practice, not simply that they are taught...be it Catholics or any within a religious group or whereever the setting might be.
I trust a Catholic prayer will be acceptable on this thread.
I hadn’t heard anything about that.
OF COURSE, PRAYER TO THE LORD IS ALWAYS WELCOME, TO MY SENSIBILITIES.
And, Jesse is a Roman Catholic, anyway!
This is when your side starts complaining about shifting grounds and rubber dictionaries, and not without some justification.
Funnily enough, it relates to the conversation about form and matter, substance and accidents.
I ask you to stipulate:
-1- that there is only ONE Church.
-2- that Baptism is the ORDINARY (not exclusive or only) means of joining that Church.
-3- That the blessed in Heaven are in that Church.
Not too bad so far, right?
Now, hold your nose and stipulate THIS:
- the fullest 'instantiation' of the one Church on earth is the bunch o' folks in communion with the Holy See. (In this connection it's important to remember that there are Catholics who are not "Roman" - that is, Latin Rite - Catholics, such as Maronites and Ukrainian Catholics, and others.)
I'm not asking you to agree, just see the way it's laid out.
What this means (the way I say it) is that if you go to communion in the Catholic Church (with the right intention) then you can rely on having gotten whatever good communion offers. Similarly if y9ou are a penitent and contrite as you can be (So it's an internal standard) and you go to confession, you are indeed forgiven.
So we claim we have 'reliable' 'helps'.
WE do not claim to know whether or how "separated brethren are saved, but we are open to the possibility of their being brought into the fellowship of the one Church in Heaven.
I say again, that Church is (or will be) the heavenly perfection of the one Church on earth. IN that sense it will be the catholic, and even the Catholic, Church. The unity will be perfected in heaven and the separation overcome.
All this seems to me to follow from Dominus Iesus and from the passages in the Catechism about salvation of the unBaptized.
I'm not asking you to agree. I am merely addressing the meaning of Unam Sanctam and or any other declarations about the relationship between being saved into heaven and being in the Church.