Skip to comments.Intended Catholic Dictatorship
Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
And you know that how?
I gave you scriptures explaining my position-- awaiting yours
For the LAST TIME, show me where I wrote the the Assumption DENIES the Resurrection or I will conclude that you were mind reading.
Not to be argumentative but the year was 1950. I remember it well. In fact my first daughter was named in honor of the Marian Year, declared by Pope Pius XII, in 1954.
The belief in the bodily assumption of Mary was far from unanimous either in the East or the West.
So say you and the men who arbitrarilly declared it so.
8,778 posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 1:17:34 PM by wagglebee
we have posts by Christians who believe and study scripture, not what the changing opinions of men tell us to believe, which you yourself realize from the post, yet you make the spurious leap that not believing theology makes one anti-Catholic. Somehow, when we refuse to believe men over the scriptures, this makes us "anti-Catholic" when we are anti-Catholic belief", big difference.
Again, this is FALSE. I specifically wrote about Protestants who DO NOT reject Marian teachings.
Did jesus mean what He said or not?
If a man lives by the law, and believes he is saved by the law..he will be judged by the law..(Romans 2:12) he will never pass, because NO ONE can keep the law perfectly except Christ
Think of it this way, You are charged with robbery, and you stand before the judge, and he asks if you have anything to say for yourself ...and you reply , but judge I feed my sick neighbor, and I work with handicapped children... would the judge dismiss your sentence?
Not if he is a just judge ...He would say" that is very nice, but you are still guilty of stealing from a family... so your sentence is......... "
God is a just judge.. He will not give you community service, he will sentence you .
The law saves no one, it only condemns
Why did you ping RnMomof7, she and I are FRiends, have been for a good while. We are both fully aware of what we disagree on, but I'm quite sure she knows that I consider her a sister in Christ.
*Now, thousands of posts later, we have a bunch of non-Catholics who believe that the most important tenet of their faith is that they don't believe what Catholics believe. Being an anti-Catholic makes someone a bigot, not a Christian. There are more than a few anti-Catholics on this thread who make well over 90% of their posts on anti-Catholic threads, they aren't Christians, they are agents of Satan, they are known by their fruits. * 8,778 posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 1:17:34 PM by wagglebee
So am I to conclude that if you love neither God nor your neighbor nor have faith even the size of the mustard seed, you’re OK with God?
Actually, the term I used was anti-Catholics on this thread.
We are nearly 9000 posts into this thread, it would take a great deal of mind reading to know which specific posters I was talking about. Unless of course there were some on this thread who publicly list their religion to be anti-Catholicism.
The ONLY person I said anything about specifically was the original poster and I didn't say that until some time after he was banned for being a troll.
Because making it personal is against the rules.
“”By golly - sounds like Sola Scripture to me.””
By golly- I think you need to read more about Blessed Augustine rather than guessing at what he taught
From Blessed Augustine...
As to those other things which we hold on the authority, NOT of Scripture, but of TRADITION, and which are observed throughout the whole world, it may be understood that they are held as approved and instituted either by the apostles themselves, or by plenary Councils, whose authority in the Church is most useful, e.g. the annual commemoration, by special solemnities, of the Lord’s passion, resurrection, and ascension, and of the descent of the Holy Spirit from heaven, and whatever else is in like manner observed by the whole Church wherever it has been established.
yes, you made the leap that people who don't believe Catholic writings are anti-Catholic. People are on a theology discussion thread-- when someone doesn't agree with your ideas, that does not make them bigots, satanists or trolls, nor do you have the right to call them such, personally or collectively.
Oh, is that why it was commemorated liturgically for centuries in both East and West?
Actually, I didn't. Several times on this thread I have specifically differentiated between Protestant and anti-Catholics.
when someone doesn't agree with your ideas, that does not make them bigots, satanists or trolls, nor do you have the right to call them such, personally or collectively.
I never said anyone had to agree with me.
I have every right to call a non-specific group bigots.
The original poster of this thread was banned for making one of the most offensive statements I've ever seen here.
More pettifogging over an easily understood few lines of Scripture.
And so far you haven't said what the Catholic Church's official interpretation of 2 Cor. 2:10 is so what you've been saying is just YOUR interpretation, isn't it?
So what do you base your interpretation upon?
well yes you did, right here
You go from belief to bigot, just like that
*Now, thousands of posts later, we have a bunch of non-Catholics who believe that the most important tenet of their faith is that they don't believe what Catholics believe. Being an anti-Catholic makes someone a bigot, not a Christian. *
the funny part is the number of non-Catholics here who have repeatedly said Catholics worship satan, idols, are going to hell, blah, blah, blah...... It works both ways sunshine.
Some loon, liar, and genuinely misinformed "expert" has informed me that the correct Latin to English translation of "alter" is "the second", "the other one".
Wadaya know! I just used the Google Translator and it translates "alter" to "the other".
You have your work cut out for you.
PS. I added a few non-Catholics to your list. I'm certain you inadvertantly left them off.
ping to #8822
Again, does scripture say it? and if so, then it’s valid. Believing scripture is one thing, believing the opinions of men are another. “sunshine”, yes, I’m happy to bring some into your jaded little life
ping to #8822
We shall know them by their fruits, or anti-Catholic is as anti-Catholic does. Either way its pretty obvious.
> “the ones who believe that they’re saved, for instance, based upon what?”
Only a Catholic could have such a question!
Based on the promises in God’s word, and the assurance that the Holy Spirit gives us.
Terms used by the Catholic Church mean what the Catholic Church says they mean. Its called contextual. Since we all know what a firm theological grounding Google translators have the only thing you proved is how gullible some can be when they so desperately want to prove something that isn't.
Now, Professor, I suggest you actually study the Latin Vulgate and Catholic theology to understand both. I'm not saying you have to believe any of it, but at least you will get your definitions right enough to hold an intelligent conversation.
I really haven't understood what the deal was, "in persona Christe" means "in the person of Christ", "alter Christe" means practically the same thing. To go to the extreme and define it beyond how the Church intends it though is wrong, but that's never stopped anyone before.
Priests (indeed all Christians) are to conform themselves to Christ. Priests are to do what Christ did in a somewhat more profound manner than the slogan WWJD. Our High Priest is Jesus Christ, He is the priest, He is the sacrifice Who offers and is offered to His Father.
Who ya gonna trust? Some poster or Google Translator and those Merriam-Webster folks?
RSV - Ignatius Edition
2 Corinthians 2:10 Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ,
"...presence of Christ."
Underlining!? That’s getting pretty close to hubris, you know.
Yeah, that’s interesting:
New International Version (©1984)
If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake,
New Living Translation (©2007)
When you forgive this man, I forgive him, too. And when I forgive whatever needs to be forgiven, I do so with Christ’s authority for your benefit,
English Standard Version (©2001)
Anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But one whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ,
International Standard Version (©2008)
When you forgive someone, I do, too. Indeed, what I have forgiven-if there was anything to forgive-I did in the presence of the Messiah for your benefit,
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
If you forgive someone, so do I. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did in the presence of Christ for your benefit.
King James Bible
To whom ye forgive any thing, I [forgive] also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave [it], for your sakes [forgave I it] in the person of Christ;
American King James Version
To whom you forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
American Standard Version
But to whom ye forgive anything, I forgive also: for what I also have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, for your sakes have I forgiven it in the presence of Christ;
Bible in Basic English
But if you give forgiveness to anyone, I do the same: for if I have given forgiveness for anything, I have done it because of you, in the person of Christ;
And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ.
Darby Bible Translation
But to whom ye forgive anything, I also; for I also, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, it is for your sakes in the person of Christ;
English Revised Version
But to whom ye forgive anything, I forgive also: for what I also have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, for your sakes have I forgiven it in the person of Christ;
Webster’s Bible Translation
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes I forgave it, in the person of Christ;
Weymouth New Testament
When you forgive a man an offence I also forgive it; for in fact what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has always been for your sakes in the presence of Christ,
World English Bible
Now I also forgive whomever you forgive anything. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ,
Young’s Literal Translation
And to whom ye forgive anything — I also; for I also, if I have forgiven anything, to whom I have forgiven it, because of you — in the person of Christ — I forgive it,
I just don’t subscribe to your interpretation. That’s what all of this comes down to. Much the same way that Pentecostals don’t interpret things the same way as Presbyterians don’t interpret things the same way as Church of Christ don’t interpret things the same way as Non-Denominational and so on ad nauseaum. Except on Reformation Sunday.
Sadly, we do not have the "original" manuscripts. In any event they would then have to be translated into the vernacular in, to a large extent, a "best guess" basis.
To those of us to whom English is the first language we'll have to settle on the English language version.
(Many Catholics are not aware that Latin is far removed from the "original" language.)
Hey, here is a novel idea, why don't we check with the Church and see what it says about what it teaches? Naw, on second thought that would be too easy and wouldn't give the desired answer.......... Let's just keep making things up just to bait the Catholics, because we all know we have to talk our way into heaven and lying is just talk with a Calvinist spin, isn't it?.......Do I hear an "Amen!"?
Isn't Christ omnipresent? What about Matthew 18:20; "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."
Wow, you guys never tire of departing from the doctrine of the Trinity, do you? I had had glimpses of non Trinitarian heresy before, but they have really come out on this thread. Ummm, are there any other non Christian beliefs that you guys wish to parade out here?
Guessing or if you have a source of
There are at least 33,000 points of disagreement or there wouldn't need to be 33,000 denominations, give or take.
Christianity is all explained by the Gospels, start there.
Well........the fact that Constantine lived and died a pagan while still having effective control over the, yet to be named, Catholic Church is cause for concern.
I keep asking for proofs and you keep coming up with repetitions of this stuff. You have no proofs, otherwise, I believe that you would have posted them.
It is true that Constantine added much more to the Catholic Church after his death with the FORGED Donation of Constantine.
Constantine added to the Church after his death? Quite a feat. Do you claim deity, perhaps equality with God, with this as a proof?
Not at all. I frequently cut & paste. I do call attention to errors, deliberate or not, in the information.
Let me repeat:
"catholic" was used as an adjective, not a proper noun.
There was no proper noun Catholic when they were written.
Thank you for unwittingly proving my point. Direct word for word translators never work. They are inherently incapable of differentiating between ramjet and sheep spray.
There is only one explanation; the "many educated Catholics" are either ignorant or lying.
Only if you have the secret Reformed decoder ring, the Reformed passwords, the Reformed handshakes, the Reformed assurance of salvation and the Reformed sneer at the reprobates and the 'gentiles'. Hmm they are sounding more and more like Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery and Brigham Young and Sidney Rigdon. Only the Reformed, the OSAS crowd and the Mormons have imposed their will upon God for their own salvation.
Are you an "it"?
Come on, Reg, if you want to be taken seriously you are going to have to put on your big boy pants and act like an adult. My granddaughter is wittier than that and she only two and a half.
Gosh, gee, and golly, you aren't suggesting the writings of Saint Augustine are used selectively by the Catholic Church are you?
I'm not aware of any person posting on this thread who displays a "hatred" of Mary.
Certainly you are not too cowardly to post names and references.