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Why do I hate God so much? I respond to that question
Examiner.com ^ | August 27, 2010 | Jeff Musall

Posted on 08/27/2010 9:14:30 PM PDT by hiho hiho

Let me start out by saying I'm an atheist. Am I absolutely sure there is no God, no supreme being looking over us? No, of course not. Contrary to some opinions, that doesn't make me agnostic. I hold the possibility of God to be so remote as to be inconsequential, but I don't for a moment think I possess all knowledge on the matter.

I would also add that I am a hopeful atheist, not only confident in my lack of belief, but assured that it is ultimately the belief system most in the world will come to. When we as a society cast off our gods, we can finally grow up as a sentient species.

So, do I hate God, when I don't even believe in him? Yes, absolutely - I despise the idea of God as described by religion. Call him Yaweh, Allah, or any other title you wish to ascribe. The idea of God is just as vile as any actual existence. And if he is a real being, my hatred becomes all the more justified.

But hate is such a strong word, you might say - yes indeed. Why do I feel so strongly?

As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words...

The caption below the picture attached to the article explains the scene, but here it is again. A young boy, dying from famine, is trying to crawl to a UN food station about a kilometer away. He isn't going to make it, and a vulture is stalking him.

Fundamentalists of all stripes will attest to the power of prayer, to the power of an intercessory God to move in the lives of people when called upon.

Did this boy not pray? We don't know - did he perhaps pray to the wrong God? Did no one in the world pray for hungry children?

Can not the God who parts seas, destroys the world through flood, raises the dead, and professes to be creator of all we see manage to feed a starving boy? If he can, and doesn't, he is despicable. If he can't, he is a fraud.

As the photo caption says, the picture won a Pulitzer Prize. Shortly after winning, the photographer committed suicide. It's not known exactly why - although guilt over the boy in the photo seems a likely explanation.

I'm also reminded of a story told by an elderly Ukrainian woman about losing her son during Stalin's forced famine on the people of Ukraine in the 1930s.

The Babushka speaks about having to look her dying son in the eye, and tell him no, he couldn't have the beet root. She had to choose to give it to her healthier child in the hopes of survival. Her son's eyes dimmed, and he faded away.

She was in all likelihood Orthodox, and probably prayed daily - to no avail.

Now I know all the arguments that will be brought out in defense of the deity. "God works in mysterious ways," and "we can't know the mind of God," or maybe "God had a higher purpose for them." We would never try to excuse the same type of behavior from a fellow person, why are some so willing to give God a pass?

If God could claim to have created everything and then sat back, allowed events to flow as the might, that still wouldn't absolve him, but it could be at least a viable argument.

But that's not what God or those who follow him claim. God is seen as an active participant in the world, answering prayers and interceding on behalf of the faithful. And that belief is also contemptible.

When the faithful claim miracles on their behalf, they are elevating themselves above the less fortunate. They are, in essence, claiming a right to divine intervention for everything from traffic to sports. The trivial in their life suddenly becomes more important than a young child dying from cancer or hunger or war.

When a person says "God answered my prayer," I automatically dismiss whatever comes next. I know they are wrong. And I would argue it's even worse if they are right. If God will allow himself to be troubled to clear traffic ahead of someone running late, to help a person on a test, or cure a cold, he by default makes himself responsible for all of the unanswered prayers.

And some of them he chooses to ignore indict him as either pathetic ideal or wretched overlord. When Tony Dungy, former coach of the Indianapolis Colts, said they won the Superbowl by doing it "the Lord's way," I wanted to climb into the television set and punch him in the face. Celebrities and the wealthy who claim to owe their success to God are saying "look at me, I'm important to God."

When someone like Glenn Beck tells you his rally is divine providence, he is telling you his movement is God's working in our lives. Yet the same God cannot alleviate the suffering of a dying child.

The desire we all hold for meaning in life can explain why so many people are drawn to religion. Easy answers to those questions that once seemed impossible to know. I am by no means indicting all people who are religious.

On the contrary, some are fine individuals. It's their belief system that is flawed and ultimately evil. Good people can be very wrong. I once struggled to find meaning in faith. I can say, without hesitation, that my decision to leave it behind was one of the most liberating of my life.

And of course just liberating yourself from the heavy yoke of religion doesn't mean you will be a better person. But at least you will understand that our society and how it treats the least among us says something very strong about us. The religious right likes to say we would be lawless, killing, raping, etc, with no regard for consequences.

I beg to differ. I think when we leave behind dogma we can find within ourselves the capacity to work to lift all. Regardless of what Beck and company say, it's very much about collective salvation. For as long as one suffers needlessly, we are all the lesser for it.

I've been told I will be sorry one day, that "every knee shall bow, every tongue confess." Maybe I will succumb to some unimaginable torture and do just that. If I am wrong, and there is a God, I hope I have the strength to express my true feelings.


TOPICS: Skeptics/Seekers; Theology
KEYWORDS: antitheism; antitheist; atheist; christophobia; intellectualoid; jeffmusall; misotheism; narcissism
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1 posted on 08/27/2010 9:14:32 PM PDT by hiho hiho
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To: hiho hiho

Better be sure.


2 posted on 08/27/2010 9:15:57 PM PDT by rbosque (11 year Freeper! Combat Economist.)
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To: hiho hiho

What a desperately shallow view of the world.


3 posted on 08/27/2010 9:18:42 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: hiho hiho

Me? I’m happy for that dying child. He is now in a heaven Jeff Musall will never know.


4 posted on 08/27/2010 9:23:03 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: hiho hiho

All he has done is elevate himself to be his own god.


5 posted on 08/27/2010 9:24:59 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: hiho hiho

Thing one: Death is different from God’s point of view. Of course.

Thing two: Worldly suffering is trivial in an eternal context. Of course.

Thing three: It’s awfully arrogant for a human mind to think it understands everything that is and can explain it all.


6 posted on 08/27/2010 9:26:45 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: hiho hiho
The caption below the picture attached to the article explains the scene, but here it is again. A young boy, dying from famine, is trying to crawl to a UN food station about a kilometer away. He isn't going to make it, and a vulture is stalking him.

So, it's somehow God's fault that the photographer would rather get a Pulitzer prize than actually stop to carry that child to the feeding station?

7 posted on 08/27/2010 9:30:45 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: hiho hiho
Great Gravy.What a fool.
He has never considered the vileness of sin, and its effects... That is he's never read the Bible.
But of course, its God's Word - so why bother...
Thus the filthy, and sinful, created thing ('a worm') shaking his fist at the all Righteous and Holy Creator.
And he makes himself 'God' ('God should do this. God should do that. A Good God would do what I - a vile sinner - thinks is right')...

eh, Psalm 14 people have always been around (at least since Cain)...

8 posted on 08/27/2010 9:33:43 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: hiho hiho
If I am wrong, and there is a God, I hope I have the strength to express my true feelings.

You won't have to. God already knows them.

9 posted on 08/27/2010 9:34:25 PM PDT by ILS21R ("Every night before I go to sleep, I think who would throw stones at me?", she said)
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To: Ramius

He is a fool that chooses to blame God for man’s cruelty.


10 posted on 08/27/2010 9:34:28 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: hiho hiho
Oh gee, an atheist in Portland. Go figure. May that God-forsaken city be the recipient of an asteroid or a tsunami generated by an earthquake along the Cascadia Subduction Zone.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

11 posted on 08/27/2010 9:34:51 PM PDT by wku man (Steel yourselves, patriots, and be ready. Won't be long now....)
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To: hiho hiho

What is the purpose of collective salvation without God? What would the collectively-saved be saved for? The author seems to want to believe in something, just not God.


12 posted on 08/27/2010 9:35:47 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: hiho hiho; Salamander; Allegra; Eaker; TheOldLady; Markos33; Vendome; 50mm
The poem "Deteriorata" was meant as a parody.

Jeff Musall has unwittingly, however, provided proof positive of one of the key lines in that poem

"Be assured that a walk through the seas of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet."
13 posted on 08/27/2010 9:36:10 PM PDT by shibumi (Pablo is Miley- wily, clever and detractive as all get out!)
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To: hiho hiho

Entire encyclopedias worth of commentary exist on this very subject of how a omni potent God can be both loving and allow evil to happen. NONE of it, follows the excuses this guy uses.

His research is obviously shallow if any at all.

The fact that he rants on about the same old tired, lame and empty excuses without so much as one line articulating the many answers shows his lack of homework.

Many a great and sincere atheist have actually undertaken the task to find answers to these apparent dilemmas and FOUND those answers and converted to Christ.

Yet, he won’t even read or study THOSE men?

Did he dare to think HE was the first person to ever ASK these questions? In all human history?

He isn’t worth the time, if he himself, hasn’t taken the time to seek his on his own.

Sad.


14 posted on 08/27/2010 9:37:28 PM PDT by RachelFaith (2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Unless the GOP Senate ruins it all...)
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To: wku man
May that God-forsaken city be the recipient of an asteroid or a tsunami generated by an earthquake along the Cascadia Subduction Zone.

Good thing for Portland that we're not God.

15 posted on 08/27/2010 9:40:19 PM PDT by thulldud (Is it "alter or abolish" time yet?)
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To: hiho hiho

Who cares what you think?


16 posted on 08/27/2010 9:42:41 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: hiho hiho
So-tired-of-flawed-theological-assertions-made-by-lazy-uneducated-dimwits ping.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

17 posted on 08/27/2010 9:43:19 PM PDT by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“So, it’s somehow God’s fault that the photographer would rather get a Pulitzer prize than actually stop to carry that child to the feeding station?”

Photog was an atheist.


18 posted on 08/27/2010 9:44:20 PM PDT by jessduntno (Each day, I await a fresh insult to America by this usurper...he never fails to deliver.)
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To: hiho hiho

Time to go back to this tagline, I guess...


19 posted on 08/27/2010 9:45:14 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (I don't believe in athiests.)
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To: hiho hiho

“When Tony Dungy, former coach of the Indianapolis Colts, said they won the Superbowl by doing it “the Lord’s way,” I wanted to climb into the television set and punch him in the face.”

You should thank God you weren’t able to ... he would have kicked your sorry ass.


20 posted on 08/27/2010 9:45:56 PM PDT by jessduntno (Each day, I await a fresh insult to America by this usurper...he never fails to deliver.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Or this one maybe...


21 posted on 08/27/2010 9:46:11 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (I don't believe in atheists. And nihilists are nothing to me.)
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To: hiho hiho

Interesting.


22 posted on 08/27/2010 9:47:00 PM PDT by BigCinBigD (Northern flags in South winds flutter...)
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To: hiho hiho

My what a clever pile of molecules. I’m so glad it shared its thoughts, or whatever they are, with us. Funny how a chemistry experiment can be so opinionated about things, and so certain that what it says is “true”.

Physics is fascinating, isn’t it?


23 posted on 08/27/2010 9:49:38 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: hiho hiho

Mr. Musall fully embodies the concept of being lost. He certainly needs our prayers.


24 posted on 08/27/2010 9:51:26 PM PDT by FourPeas (God Save America)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“So, it’s somehow God’s fault that the photographer would rather get a Pulitzer prize than actually stop to carry that child to the feeding station?”

I would have taken the photo. Then carried the child to the aid station.


25 posted on 08/27/2010 9:51:49 PM PDT by BigCinBigD (Northern flags in South winds flutter...)
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To: hiho hiho

Paging Whittaker Chambers...


26 posted on 08/27/2010 9:54:48 PM PDT by rlmorel (America: Why should a product be deemed a failure if you ignore assembly and operation instructions?)
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To: hiho hiho
I takes a heck of a lot more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe in God.

If the atheist is correct, then the Christian has somehow tapped into an unidentified power to become a new creation. At the end of his/her existence, that Christian was able to leave a more positive impact on the world because of his/her faith.

But what if the Christian is right?

27 posted on 08/27/2010 9:55:34 PM PDT by Hoodat (.For the weapons of our warfare are mighty in God for pulling down strongholds.)
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To: hiho hiho

What can I say? Wisdom is a pain that is never inflicted on some.

I feel sorry for the man, for both his limited understanding and for being proud of it enough to share.


28 posted on 08/27/2010 9:57:16 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: hiho hiho

ah yes. So when Atheists staved 20 million Ukrainians, it was God’s fault.

When Mao starved 40 million Chinese, it was God’s fault.

And when Christians go into the worst hellholes of the world to give medical care and food, well, it’s God’s fault too...

I know I’m being snotty, but if he was an honest Atheist, he would be thinking: Since there is no God, I guess I’m stuck fixing the problem...which is why he isn’t honest, just making God a scapegoat for the problem of evil...


29 posted on 08/27/2010 10:04:19 PM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: Hoodat
If the atheist is correct, then the Christian has somehow tapped into an unidentified power to become a new creation. At the end of his/her existence, that Christian was able to leave a more positive impact on the world because of his/her faith.

Well, not necessarily. It's pretty clear that belief or non-belief is a very poor indicator as to whether or not someone will do positive things in their life.

As evidence of this, I cite the entirety of world history since the death of Christ.

30 posted on 08/27/2010 10:07:04 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: hiho hiho

I look at it a little differently. I firmly believe that there is a higher consciousness in the universe than that of man, and I suspect that the universe exists as a thought of that consciousness. Whether it resembles any of the various and sundry Gods that humanity has postulated over the ages, I do not know.

As to whether God interacts with or interceeds on behalf of humans, I have seen no evidence that convinces me. I have not refused to look, in fact I have spent a fair part of my 64 years looking. Every argument that I have heard can be dismissed on the grounds that somebody was mistaken, somebody lied, or there is a simpler explanation.

I of course may be wrong, and there are those who would suggest that I “believe” just in case. Unfortunately a rational mind cannot work that way.


31 posted on 08/27/2010 10:15:04 PM PDT by tickmeister (tickmeister)
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To: hiho hiho

When Jeff gets to 8th grade he’s going to be embarrassed by all this tripe he wrote in 7th.


32 posted on 08/27/2010 10:18:57 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Hail To The Fail-In-Chief)
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To: hiho hiho
When the faithful claim miracles on their behalf, they are elevating themselves above the less fortunate. They are, in essence, claiming a right to divine intervention for everything from traffic to sports. The trivial in their life suddenly becomes more important than a young child dying from cancer or hunger or war

Amazing because I once flew into a rage at a coworker who claimed God had helped her find something that she had lost. I was very upset about Rwanda at the time. I remember showing her the cover of Time with small feet and hands floating down a river of red - in Rwanda.

33 posted on 08/27/2010 10:20:50 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: wku man

There are many good people in Portland.


34 posted on 08/27/2010 10:26:09 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: hiho hiho

You poor thing. The world is a better and fairer place than at any point in history.

Less people die as a percentage of the global population than at any time in history.

Is each life valuable? Sure, but God set up a natural order and then their is man’s evil.

If God saved every life, what would the value of that life really be?

What would the human condition be?

Would man’s character be strengthened if God was an interventionist God?

How would you learn without failure? Defeat? Winning? Achievement?

How would the human condition be improved if man never learned the arts and sciences? By that I mean, why would man struggle to learn a new thing to avoid pain or gain pleasure.

If God intervened, always, there would be no reason for man to seek out solutions.

There would be no man vs man, man vs nature and there would damn little of man vs himself.

He would be responsible for nothing since God would intervene whenever called.

You don’t have to believe in God but he most surely knows who you are.

You can hate God and he will still be waiting, at the door, for you his most loved child and son.


35 posted on 08/27/2010 10:29:27 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: hiho hiho

Is there a particuliar reason you have sought this attention? When in fact most on FR do believe in God?
hummm....you have forgotten who you are.


36 posted on 08/27/2010 10:32:54 PM PDT by caww
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To: skr; hiho hiho

Hiho, hiho it’s over your head I know. . .

Anyway, my crummy joke aside, there is no such thing as collective salvation. If there was your personal wishes would always be subordinated to group, clique and clan rules, even in the realm of spirituality.

No, your salvation is personal and your relationship with God is as singular as the one you have with your parents, even if you are from a large family.

You are unique and have personal needs like no one else and God recognizes that as unique individuals you should be treated as such, so that your experiences are solely unique to the life you live.


37 posted on 08/27/2010 10:36:17 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: hiho hiho

How can you hate what you don’t believe in? It’s like the atheist standing up on the roof of his house, screaming, “YOU DON’T EXIST! YOU DON’T EXIST!” at the sky.


38 posted on 08/27/2010 10:39:18 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople
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To: hiho hiho

You have used the word God over twenty times in your post....if you don’t believe there is a God then exactly who are you objecting to?


39 posted on 08/27/2010 10:40:04 PM PDT by caww
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To: LadyDoc

I like that perspective:

Scapegoating God.

You know, I could go on and on about that with some atheist I know and still others who blame, erh, damn God for everything.


40 posted on 08/27/2010 10:40:24 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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Athiests are the most foolish on this planet.

They're also the first, in times of extreme duress, to exclaim "oh my God!!!!".

41 posted on 08/27/2010 10:43:47 PM PDT by NoRedTape
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To: Vendome

Yes, I know there is no such thing as collective salvation; my point, obviously not clearly made, is that salvation of any kind without God is pointless.


42 posted on 08/27/2010 10:44:44 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: hiho hiho

Ho, hum. They try, they try...


43 posted on 08/27/2010 10:55:35 PM PDT by redhead (Abortion: The number one killer of human beings. Period.)
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To: hiho hiho
Regardless of what Beck and company say, it's very much about collective salvation.

I saw a clip on Fox of Obama using the term "collective salvation" over and over again in different speeches.

Sounds like this is a new talking point we'll be hearing more of. I wonder where it started.

44 posted on 08/27/2010 11:02:41 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: shibumi

Sounds like somebody who *does* believe in God but chooses whiny, hypotheticals instead of facing his fear of [and responsibility for] what that “non-existent” God is gonna do with his silly ass when he croaks.

There is no such thing as a dead atheist.


45 posted on 08/27/2010 11:10:20 PM PDT by Salamander (And I think I need some rest but sleeping don't come very easy in a straight white vest.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper; shibumi

“hiho hiho, it’s off to hell I go!”

[sorry...couldn’t resist]

;]


46 posted on 08/27/2010 11:12:38 PM PDT by Salamander (And I think I need some rest but sleeping don't come very easy in a straight white vest.)
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To: hiho hiho
When we as a society cast off our gods...

I tried casting off God; he had other plans for me and made it readily apparent.

On another note....anyone else notice how angry atheists are?

47 posted on 08/27/2010 11:30:49 PM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: shibumi; humblegunner

“Brutal Planet”
[Alice Cooper]

We’re spinning round on this ball of hate
There’s no parole, there’s no great escape
We’re sentenced here until the end of days
And then my brother there’s a price to pay

We’re only human, we were born to die
Without the benefit of reason why
We live for pleasure - to be satisfied
And now it’s over there’s no place to hide

Why don’t you, come down to
It’s such a brutal planet
It’s such an ugly world
Why won’t you, come down to

“This world is such perfection” (What a sight)
“It’s just like paradise” (For my eyes)
“A truly grand creation” (What a sight)
“From up here it looks so nice” (For my eyes)

It’s such a brutal planet
It’s such a livid hell
It was a holy garden
That’s right where Adam fell
It’s where the bite was taken
It’s where we chose to sin
It’s where we first were naked
This is where our death begins

We took advice from that deceiving snake
He said don’t worry it’s a piece of cake
And sent us swimming in a burning lake
Now we’re abandoned here for heaven’s sake

Why don’t you, come down to
It’s such a brutal planet
It’s such an ugly world
Why won’t you, come down to

“This world is such perfection” (What a sight)
“It’s just like paradise” (For my eyes)
“A truly grand creation” (What a sight)
“From up here it looks so nice” (For my eyes)

Here’s where we keep the armies
Here’s where we write their names
Here’s where our money got us
Here’s our famous hall of shame
Here’s where we starve the hungry
Here’s where we cheat the poor
Here’s where we beat the children
Here is where we pay the whore

Why don’t you, come down to
It’s such a brutal planet
It’s such an ugly world
Why won’t you, come down to

“This world is such perfection” (What a sight)
“It’s just like paradise” (For my eyes)
“A truly grand creation” (What a sight)
“From up here it looks so nice” (For my eyes)

Right here we stoned the prophets
Built idols out of mud
Right here we fed the lions
Christian flesh and Christian blood
Down here is where we hung him
Upon an ugly cross
Over there we filled the ovens
Right here the holocaust


All he has to know, right there.

Beginning/middle/end.

Really great drum/bass intro, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SI1aMEEOAg


48 posted on 08/27/2010 11:37:57 PM PDT by Salamander (And I think I need some rest but sleeping don't come very easy in a straight white vest.)
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To: hiho hiho

The second temptation of Lucifer is that once the individual soul has tasted Divine Love and has been once illuminated the soul believes it has sole propriety over the Divine Light it has obtained, and seeks to work its own will and power and ability as if the soul and its consciousness were its own peculiar possession.

As the the nature of our will draws us away from acting in accord with the Divine Will, we cease to see Divinity in others (hence the author uses the photographer as an example before himself of God not functioning through another to save the dying child - remember Lucifer is known as the Accuser for this very reason). This is the reason we are enjoined to love our enemies.


49 posted on 08/27/2010 11:37:58 PM PDT by februus
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To: Vendome

Liberals want God to be what they expect government to be: all powerful with no responsibility on man’s part.


50 posted on 08/27/2010 11:43:50 PM PDT by streetpreacher (Arminian by birth, Calvinist by the grace of God)
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