Catholics and the Next America

First Things ^ | 9/17/2010 | Charles J Chaput

[RnMomof7]

Where does St. Paul mention St. John the Baptist? Where does he mention all the other of the 12 apostles?

Where does Peter do this?

i know this is hard to grasp but the Bible is about CHRIST , not Peter , not Mary , not about james or John or any others.. it is all about CHRIST

[Judith Anne]

This may come as a shock, but you are not my authority. Not my FR authority, not my scripture authority, not my religious authority.

You can question me all you want, but I do not consider myself bound in any way by your one-sided, failed Catholic interrogation.

[RnMomof7]

Did you actually read this garbage from the Jewish Encyclopedia, of all places!

Yea the Jews were such fans of Paul they wanted him dead.. . they liked him almost as much as Catholics do

[RnMomof7]

Paul is considered a saint in Roman Catholic, Orthodox and some other Christian traditions..

You would not be saying that the catholic church canonizes people that are nuts are you??

[RnMomof7]

Well, you impeached my source, the Jewish Encyclopedia. So, I got some others. None of the scholars think Paul wrote all the Epistles attributed to him.

Just as scholars do not believe Peter actually wrote his epistles or that he was ever in rome... How bout those scholars?

[RnMomof7]

Good post

[HarleyD]

As for Paul being a Mystic... LOL that is what the catholic church most values..look at your saints and your monasteries it is all about mysticism

Isn't St. Paul one of the pillars of the Vatican?

Do Catholics have the right to go around calling their saints mystics and insane? Somehow I don't hear that about Joan of Arc, althought that might have fit her. ;O)

[RnMomof7]

You are the one jumping up and down screaming “heretic! heretic!” You can’t prove it, and if you want to go back to Trent - it was made quite clear that ordinary Catholics were not to interpret what came out of Trent - but you and a few others still bleat out the “You’re a heretic!” refrain to be provocative and cute.
You should probably shut your pie-hole on heresy. If not only to simply have the good form to be religiously tolerant, as all good Americans should be - then do it because otherwise you risk being labeled a heretic yourself for interpreting Trent and coming to your conclusions - something Pius said you aren’t qualified to do. So do it to save yourself within your own faith.>

Exactly..good post

[RnMomof7]

That is unfortunately very true. In the case of St. Paul, obviously the Church holds him in exceptionally high regard even among the other Holy Apostles, due to the volume and clarity of his writing. Further, the view that St. Paul is somehow more "protestant" than other inspired authors of the Scripture, -- for example, that in order to teach salvation by grace alone through faith and works the teachings of St. Paul, especially in Romans and Galatians , have to be somehow denied or bent into harmony with other scripture -- is not held by the Church. There is nothing that St. Paul ever said on the issue of salvation, grace, faith, and works that taken alone on its own face value contradicts anything the Church teaches, or other scripture writes, on these subjects.

I believe it does, but at least you do not hate him or think he is nuts

[RnMomof7]

Four posts to me...amazing. The answer is no, I'm finished discussing the topic.

So you have no proof.. thats what I thought

[Judith Anne]

So you have no proof.. thats what I thought

You should not adduce anything about your so-called proof from my refusal to submit to your (or any protestant) interrogation.

Furthermore, the number of protestants, including you, who extrapolate MY OPINION to be the Catholic Church's position, leads me to believe that nothing I say will be read correctly. I am not on this forum to be your target, I am not here for the inquisition, and MY OPINION, as I have said many times, is just that: MY OPINION.

[Gamecock]

****Oh, and I forgot to mention, I don’t LIKE St. Paul.***

WOW! You just can’t make stuff like this up!

[count-your-change]

Paul doesn't sound like someone who lost sleep over other’s opinions of him.

So much for the so-called “higher critics”.

[RFEngineer]

“I have my opinions and I voice them. “

I don’t question your inclination to voicing your opinions about Catholicism and even Protestantism. However, your religion limits you in interpreting what your religious leaders have decided it all means.

You are quite correct that it isn’t about tolerance - or being tolerant - Catholic leadership has only fairly recently come to the conclusion (from a practical standpoint) that Protestants had it right in America - that religious tolerance is a virtue when creating a God-fearing land. When absolute power is exercised, it corrupts absolutely - which is why it all fell apart during the Reformation, and why it will never be put back together again, short of direct intervention from God - and it is not obvious today that a divinely reunited church would be lead from Rome.

Rome has proven time and again that it is not to be trusted. While modern Catholic laity I think sincerely tries to carry on the legacy of Christ, the leadership/bureaucracy of the Catholic church fails to have the same commitment.

You do not demonstrate the same understanding of your Protestant brethren, because you are not religiously tolerant, as you have expressed. You are not to be blamed. You, and many on this board, cannot quite reconcile being Catholic and being an American. Hence the thread implying that there will be a “next” America and your view that if there is, Catholics should manipulate it to their sole advantage if they can.

Barbaric, indeed.

[mitch5501]

placemarker

[Running On Empty]

I meant to ping you

[bonfire]

Sounds like YOPIOS to me.

[RnMomof7]

LOL..you are right

[annalex]

It comes from the Greek word charis and means: good will, loving-kindness, favor, of merciful kindness.

Yes correct. That is what saves: the love of God alone. Not faith alone.

[annalex]

I love St. Paul: love his short tempter, knack for poetry, brainy talmudism, long complex thought process, appetite for self-denial. A true Catholic.

I now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ,
in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:
Whereof I am made a minister
according to the dispensation of God,
which is given me towards you,
that I may fulfill the word of God.
(Colossians 1)