Posted on 10/26/2010 5:17:20 AM PDT by Colofornian
.... Therefore no wonder he believed he had a vision, he was already very much primed to believe in visions and apparition's, years in fact.....and he likely did see spirits. But most assuredly it was not from heaven as he believed might be....rather he was open to demonic influences regardless what his intentions were to seek God or not..... Further he stated unitl that moment he had not once verb-ably prayed....which speaks volumes as well.... This pattern is not unusual in families who are exposed to cult practices and the ritual practices formed.
It is noteworthy that the clergy he spoke with were quick to denounce Smiths activities and called them what they were. No doubt they were aware of the families involvements in witchcraft and the other arts so warning Smith was certainly correct to do...and firmly so. But he ignored those warnings.
He does not mention praying further ...which is also noteworthy...indicating he is on his own mission to "experience" and "feel" what he first knew....and is very common to those who have apparitions...it is not only the visual sought but generally as well, if not moreso in many cases, the feelings that go with those experience.
Additionally, we know well that satan and his hoard rarely present themselves as they are...rather "angels of lights"... and with this special names for themselves..again appealing to the "specialness of the event by making it personal in order to draw Smith deeper into their arena of influence.
As one notices Smith speaks much of his feelings throughout these happenings...and his heightened anxieties....most notable in teenagers and young men. Teenagers are wired for feeling type experiences in life...Smith was no different.
The fact he was ostracized in the community was to be expected at that time...Christianity was swift, in that era, to not only speak out against such things but to act on them. His exclusion from the community was an acceptable and frankly proper way to handle Smith as he continued to flaunt his experience.
...enough tonight on this..need to get to bed...more tomorrow.zzzz-z-z----zzzzz time.
Are Jehovah's Witnesses "Christian"?
Are Unitarian Universalists Christian?
How about Roy Masters? Christian Identity? Theosophy?
What is your standard for calling yourself or anyone else "Christian"?
From ---> http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=8003438d9b76b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRDIf you cannot turn to the original Hebrew for possible meanings, it is sometimes helpful to try other translations. It is interesting to note that the Prophet Joseph Smith recommended such possible study procedures. He said:
“Our latitude and longitude can be determined in the original Hebrew with far greater accuracy than in the English version. There is a grand distinction between the actual meaning of the prophets and the present translation.” (See Documentary History of the Church, vol, 5, pp. 339–45.)
With reference to something of value noted in another translation of a part of the Bible, he once said:
“I have an old edition of the New Testament in the Latin, Hebrew, German and Greek languages. I have been reading he German and find it to be the most nearly correct translation, and to correspond nearest to the revelations which God has given to me for the last fourteen years.” (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 614.)
Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.
Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:
* Believing that you’re better than others
* Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
* Exaggerating your achievements or talents
* Expecting constant praise and admiration
* Believing that you’re special and acting accordingly
* Failing to recognize other people’s emotions and feelings
* Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
* Taking advantage of others
* Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
* Being jealous of others
* Believing that others are jealous of you
* Trouble keeping healthy relationships
* Setting unrealistic goals
* Being easily hurt and rejected
* Having a fragile self-esteem
* Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it’s not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don’t value themselves more than they value others.
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don’t receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may insist on having “the best” of everything — the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.
“It seemed insulting to me but we were taught not to criticize the preacher. “Touch not God’s anointed.” I’m glad I am now free from all that.”
Oh, yea, you’re as free as a bird!
No, wait! Scratch that. It’s worse than when you went
to a Christian Church.
As a Mormon Member, you are required to follow and
never second guess or criticize your mormonic high priest.
“First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.”
-Ezra Taft Benson, mormonic high priest
“Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators’ of the church, is cultivating the spirit of apostasy. One cannot speak evil of the lord’s anointed... and retain the holy spirit in his heart. This sort of game is Satan’s favorite pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak against their leaders and to do their own thinking.”
“When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God’s Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.”1
Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Darn! You were sooo close to freedom! Oh Snap!!!
ampu
Paragon Non-Defender wrote... [clarifications added in brackets]...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Undecided readers,
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s an anti-Mormon [former mormons who left the cult and now are Christians] group of people here that spends [devotes] a great deal of their time attacking [revealing the truth they learned about] the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints [the cult known commonly as “mormons”]. They post regurgitated propaganda [From our own mormon church official sources! When they do it, it’s propaganda. When I do it, it is official doctrine.] on an almost daily basis [actually, they do it throughout the day - that’s how much they care!].
They have a misguided obsession [understand that as I write this, I am wearing magic mormon underwear, which can be tight and tend to ride up into the crotch, so pardon my frustrations with this]. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument [used primarily by myself and other mormons] is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material [mormons like to cherry pick from the Bible in order to appear Christian, but it’s OK when we do it!]. After the “quotation” the [mormon] attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.
Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing [of course, I acknowledge mormonism is made up out of whole cloth and pretty crazy! Really, where can you find millions of gods in the Bible?!!] while never bringing up a single objection that hasn’t been addressed a hundred times before [of course we claim to “address it” - we can’t claim we actually answered it, since we have no facts, evidence or logic to back us up. We “address it”].
Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day [I know this because I have X-Ray vision and can see into their homes. I watch them all, closely, vigilantly and stalk their computers] seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church [by “Church” I mean the cult, but Church sounds more mainstream] look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean [dang, my magic underwear is getting a bit tight-sorry].
After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent [many, for instance, say, “AHAH! Now I understand why those former mormons want to spread the truth of mormonism! What a wacked out religion!”]. You will start to recognize the tactics employed [by mormons] to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see [I chuckle quite a bit as I fail to ever answer a question! Heh, heh!]. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed [but of course, not answered] many times before.
Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint [no doubt our young cultic missionaries have visited your home to tell you why your own church is a false church]. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed [but of course not answered, since we don’t do that at mormon links, but really, you will get more objective answers at the links] below:
http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html
http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php
http://www.exmormon.org/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/
Now you will likely notice the “you never address our points” posts pop up as usual [we try our best to never actually ANSWER, but we do address them by posting links!].
All after providing the answers just as you have here [of course, these “answers” aren’t filled with any facts or evidence or logic - they are just our way of avoiding difficult issues until we have you hooked in our cult]. Will you wear blinders too [why not switch to wearing magic underwear!]? Seek truth. Find out for yourself.
[One more thing...
PLEASE NEVER ASK ME A QUESTION!!! In all likelihood, you are too ignorant to get a real answer. We save the “meat” for when you have already joined the cult!
In particular, please do not ask questions about:
1. Multiple mormon gods
2. How you can also become a mormon god
3. Celestial sex between the millions of gods
4. Mormon Jesus being created just like people or Satan
5. What the Holy Spirit (also created) did that was naughty
6. Magic underwear!
7. Really, any question. They have already been “addressed”
I post links that “address things”, but I never personally
answer a question. That would involve thought. It is much easier and cleaner to just post the official links to the cult headquarters.]
I appreciate the civility of your comments. I ran across such concerns when I was first investigating the Church as well. However, I do believe the concern to be misguided.
These concerns can be found addressed at the links provided. Personally, I would check www.fairlds.org first. Thanks much. PD
I have not heard from you in a long time, P-Marlowe. Welcome back.
In everyday conversation, I use Christian much the same way most English speakers use the word:
Christian 1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b : DISCIPLE (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
For those who insist on a Biblical definition of the word (which appears just three places in the KJV), I cite Acts 11:26:
. . . So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
In short, a Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ.
So anyone who claims to follow somebody named Jesus Christ is a Christian in your book, no matter what doctrine he holds about who exactly that person was?
Do you believe that in order to be a Christian you have to believe that Jesus Christ is and was the Eternal God, the creator of all things?
Or is it OK to believe that he was either a prophet or "a God" among other Gods, or that he was at some point something other than God?
Jesus said that "Unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." Do you believe that?
A 15 yr. old is easily mislead and tricked...and in Smiths case all the more for his family environment who practiced witchcraft and various other dark practices...which is exactly what happened to Smith. Thereafter he sought further “experiences” and “apparitions”...not to mention his later involvement in Masonry..which has many symbols and dark rituals of that time. So his “diet” of false and deceptive teachings was fueled time and again.
Smiths foundations were built on “feelings” and “experiences” he sought and found. Once a person seeks these, and the enemy of mens souls is happy to provide, then it is very difficult to steer people away from these, for to them they truly “believe” what they are experiencing is from God...though the “reality” is in direct opposition to God. To turn from these perceived “spiritual” encounters of the nicest kind, in their minds, means giving up the fantasy and sense of “specialness’ they feel for having something most don't.
Unfortunately Smith was scammed big time and those since who have followed his teachings. Despite the many times God used men to steer Smith back to the faith with warnings and in some cases great urgency from those who genuinely cared for him. Still he was determined to hold onto his experiences and in time denounced Christianity all together as he built his own following.
The path Smith took is a typical for cult leaders..as is the indoctrination process he used to control and maneuver his followers. That same indoctrination is used today to the uninformed....and in reality was used in the Garden centuries ago to deceive and take mankind down a road of self destruction.
No worries...
And read the stories of ex-mormon's...and why they left mormonism.
I would think PD...that you would want "dear reader's" to get the whole truth..and let them make up their own minds.
“As a Mormon Member, you are required to follow and
never second guess or criticize your mormonic high priest.”
This shows you know absolutely nothing about my faith. You apparently don’t know what real freedom is.
Sorry about your friend.
Not quite. I referred to the Jesus Christ whose life and work are described in the gospels, not somebody else who may carry the same name. As for doctrine, I would not be so foolish as to accept any doctrine "no matter what" without first hearing it. No doubt some doctrines are incompatible with the teachings of Jesus Christ.
That said, I believe that faith, hope, and charity are far more important than doctrine. In other words, one can hold to an erroneous theology and still be a good Christian.
To be a Christian is to have a personal commitment to follow Jesus Christ. If a person professes such a commitment and calls himself a Christian, I am disinclined to say otherwise merely because I may disagree with him on some point of doctrine.
To answer your other questions, I would cite the prophecy of King Benjamin (ca 124 B.C.) in the Book of Mormon as an excellent summary of who Jesus Christ is and what He has done for us:
5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.6 And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.
7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.
8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.
9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.
10 And he shall rise the third day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to judge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.
11 For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned.
12 But wo, wo unto him who knoweth that he rebelleth against God! For salvation cometh to none such except it be through repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ. (Mosiah 3:5-12)
Saundra Duffy,
I quoted your leader. Can’t have it both ways.
Can you disagree with your Chief Prophet and still
be a mormon? Can you disagree with you Bishop and
still get a Temple Recommend?
If you are not allowed to disagree and stay a mormon
in good standing, then I was 100% correct and you
shaded the truth in your post.
Which is it?
Can you disagree with the prophet or not?
Educate me.
ampu
Ping to Color Country to keep you honest Saundra ...
I personally do not know any member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the LDS or "Mormon" church) who claims to be a non-Christian. However, I do not know all members of the LDS church or their claims.
Instead of "usually" I might have said something like "without exception that I know of," but that seems a bit cumbersome.
I find the following assertion of yours to be a classic example of hypocrisy on display. The assertions/allegations in your post are scurrilous and puerile.
"You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures."
Uh huh, sure. Anti's and any who question mormonsim accused of being accessories to murder and arson? Compared to Gadianton robbers? Compared to pigs? Being Atherosclorotic? Sociopaths? Behaving like swine? Being dishonest? Yammering mocking demons? Spewers of hate? Vermin? Twisted thinkers? Slanderers? Liars?
No antagonizing, no disrespect or insulting going on here is there? And each time a mormon poster is called on their comment, silence. No admission of responsibility. Nothing.
"That's a Christlike thing to do right?"
"Yeah I don't think so either."
"It does speak volumes about them though."
Yes, yes it most assuredly does speak volumes.
The temple recommend interview does not include any questions about agreeing or disagreeing with the leaders of the LDS Church.
We are expected to sustain the leaders of the church. That means we give them our loyalty and support, acknowledging their authority to act in the church, even when we may disagree with them.
For example, I know a number of active Latter-day Saints who opposed California's Proposition 8 and believe the LDS Church was wrong to support it. Nevertheless, they remain members in good standing.
When will you have the assurance that you have eternal life in Christ, as an absolute certainty?
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