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In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ


TOPICS: Prayer; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: reformation; savedbygrace
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To: count-your-change; Dr. Eckleburg
“But Rome, in its manic hubris, concocts fictitious events and tells its gullible followers that its many superstitions come under the rubric of “other things” which were neither written down nor taught by Christ and the early church.”

"And I know such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up in to paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." 2 Cor. 12:3,4.

Can you imagine the religious system Protestants could build if they decided to use these words of Paul to build a false religion? First, they would need to declare themselves infallible. Then declare that the "not lawful" does not apply to them since they are infallible. From that point on, it's any man's decision what they wanted Paul to hear. False Traditions and doctrines of men would flood the churches, until the Bible could no longer be the absolute truth, scripture interpretation would have to be IMPLICITLY stated, and of course, we would need ONE MAN in charge, to "lead' the fold and assure us that we are the only true third heaven paradise church on earth.

1,551 posted on 11/12/2010 1:39:48 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: RnMomof7
"When one does not see the scripture as authoritative there is a problem"

Jumping to conclusions should be an Olympic event. There are a few Calvinists on here that are sure medalists.

My comments in no way diminished the authority of Scripture but did take exception with those who profess an ability to interpret and discern as they see fit. Listening to the various Protestants each harp on about their interpretations implies that there must be as many Holy Spirits as there are Protestants who disagree with one another.

1,552 posted on 11/12/2010 1:43:05 PM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: smvoice
"Can you imagine the religious system Protestants could build if they decided to use these words of Paul to build a false religion?"

We don't need to imagine anything. The phone book is full of a multitude of Paulian Protestant denominations, schisms, splinter groups and out right cults.

1,553 posted on 11/12/2010 1:47:48 PM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: Natural Law
My comments in no way diminished the authority of Scripture but did take exception with those who profess an ability to interpret and discern as they see fit. Listening to the various Protestants each harp on about their interpretations implies that there must be as many Holy Spirits as there are Protestants who disagree with one another.

Or "Church fathers " huh?

1,554 posted on 11/12/2010 1:47:55 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"Therefore when JPII kissed the Koran..."

Recycling day already? Does this mean the other confabulations, repeated lies, fabrications, and distortions are going to follow soon. I can't wait for the Pope is a Nazi fairy tale, or that old mediatrix hit, or even the photo shopped images......its a walk down memory lane. What ever you do, don't forget that old Rowanda religious war joke.....its a knee slapper.

1,555 posted on 11/12/2010 1:54:16 PM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: RnMomof7
"Or "Church fathers " huh?"

So, do you guys number each of your Holy Spirits or do they go by the name of the individual they have been assigned to?

1,556 posted on 11/12/2010 1:55:35 PM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; smvoice; RnMomof7; annalex; bkaycee; metmom; Quix; presently no screen name; ...
obedience and loyalty to the Pope are among the chief requirements of the Lord's plan for unity in His church

Obedience to the pope means following his licit instructions not copying his every move. Obedience to the pope does not trump obedience to Catholic orthodoxy or Tradition.

Therefore when JPII kissed the Koran (which is certainly a "matter of religion,") the rest of the Roman Catholic church is supposed to do likewise.

Lies.

1,557 posted on 11/12/2010 1:57:14 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Natural Law

So tell me did those church fathers always agree on everything?

My guess most catholic churches are filled with cafeteria Catholics..

Protestants have differences on the non essentials, (those doctrines that are not essential to our salvation) seems to me the “church fathers had differences on what Catholics would hold as essentials


1,558 posted on 11/12/2010 2:01:13 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: Natural Law
A paradise, third heaven church that Protestants built on words that were unlawful to speak? THere is no way, Catholics have the market cornered on that system of inventing between the line traditions and doctrines.

{{sigh}} poor us. All we're left with is THE WORD OF TRUTH. And THE WHOLE ARMOUR OF GOD. /s

1,559 posted on 11/12/2010 2:05:14 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: Natural Law; annalex
You will not get anywhere arguing with those who validate their own arguments.

Validate this oh wise one. (annalex) "She did not have any other children. "Brothers" of Christ are indeed mentioned, but, curious thing, every time a "brother" of Jesus is mentioned by name, his mother also is mentioned and she is not Mary."

Please explain the Scriptural error contained in Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?

PS. Apparently annalex has chosen not to answer. Perhaps you will be so kind as to answer for him?

1,560 posted on 11/12/2010 2:06:35 PM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: mas cerveza por favor; Dr. Eckleburg; metmom; RnMomof7; Quix

So, mas, would you drink the bitter koolaid? Or would you rather not answer?


1,561 posted on 11/12/2010 2:07:39 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: OLD REGGIE
" Perhaps you will be so kind as to answer for him?"

I can't shout over the voices of your own personal magisterium in your head.

1,562 posted on 11/12/2010 2:19:26 PM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: RnMomof7

One of my most favorite songs! And I love this version!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFzsU6u853I


1,563 posted on 11/12/2010 2:32:56 PM PST by LadyPilgrim ((Lifted up was He to die; It is finished was His cry; Hallelujah what a Savior!!!!!! ))
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To: smvoice

Can I imagine? I’m spared that labor by an examination of the old pagan Roman religion with its myths and superstitions and idol worship now dressed in the robes of Roman Catholicism even as Catholic scholars admit.


1,564 posted on 11/12/2010 2:48:00 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

lol...I know. We don’t have to imagine. All we have to do is look around us.


1,565 posted on 11/12/2010 2:52:12 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: mas cerveza por favor
So, mas, would you drink the bitter koolaid? Or would you rather not answer?

How would a Catholic answer this? To say "NO" would be to reject your whole religious system. To say "YES" would be to place your religious system in the same category as cults, where members follow blindly whatever their "leader" says. Because they believe he is speaking on behalf of God and he alone has the way to heaven.

Quite the conundrum. Unless spiritual eyes are opened with the truth.

1,566 posted on 11/12/2010 3:00:39 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: smvoice
So, mas, would you drink the bitter koolaid?

What are you talking about? What bitter koolaid? Was my previous post unclear?

1,567 posted on 11/12/2010 3:27:18 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor
Your previous post didn't answer the question I asked at all. So I will repeat my post:

I've been wondering about this lately..say (worst case scenario, I know) that the Pope came out next Sunday and spoke ex-cathedra: "God has shown me that we must leave this earthly life now. It is time to drink the bitter koolaid." ANd then he turns and walks back into the Vatican. What would RCCs do? Just how much faith do they have in their pope, infallibility, traditions, doctrines, etc., really? Would they do as he said or would they walk/run away? Just HOW MUCH FAITH DO they have in Rome.

1,568 posted on 11/12/2010 3:32:10 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: smvoice
Ex cathedra, from the chair (of Peter), infallible teaching cannot contradict previous infallible teaching. In this scenario, the Church teaching on End Times would be contradicted. What's more, any pope must clearly possess a sound mind to deliver ex cathedra teaching. Finally, St. Paul instructs Christians that they must give reason for what they believe. It has always been the practice of popes to provide extensive proof text and logical justification when defining infallible doctrine.
1,569 posted on 11/12/2010 3:55:16 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: smvoice

Well some folks are willing to follow the pope right into hell if that is where he leads


1,570 posted on 11/12/2010 4:00:29 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: RnMomof7
"Well some folks are willing to follow the pope Luther and Calvin right into hell if that is where he leads"

There, fixed it for you.

1,571 posted on 11/12/2010 4:04:24 PM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: mas cerveza por favor

...so...you wouldn’t follow his directive? And while I’m asking, what is “contradiction” when new “infallible” decrees are given? What was once wrong, could be right..BTW, what is “extensive proof text”? Proof from doctrines, traditions, the word of God?


1,572 posted on 11/12/2010 4:09:28 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: mas cerveza por favor; smvoice
Ex cathedra, from the chair (of Peter), infallible teaching cannot contradict previous infallible teaching. In this scenario, the Church teaching on End Times would be contradicted. What's more, any pope must clearly possess a sound mind to deliver ex cathedra teaching. Finally, St. Paul instructs Christians that they must give reason for what they believe. It has always been the practice of popes to provide extensive proof text and logical justification when defining infallible doctrine.

So when was there an infallible teaching that God would not call the entire church home at one time?

1,573 posted on 11/12/2010 4:12:07 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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ph


1,574 posted on 11/12/2010 4:15:03 PM PST by xone
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To: Natural Law
"Well some folks are willing to follow the pope Luther and Calvin right into hell if that is where he leads">

The problem is this..IF Catholic doctrine were to be true, that salvation is based on being baptized, keeping the law and doing good works ..it would not keep protestants out of heaven ... However if the Rc is wrong and the reformation correct, GOOD catholics, that follow the church and her teachings would go to hell, because they have refused to come in Faith to Christ and choose instead to trust in themselves, their works and the church

How sad, when Christ promised us HIS yoke is easy, that we can rest in Him..that He is the author and finisher of our faith.

Men need to repent their self sufficiency and pride and come to the cross of Christ to be saved.

1,575 posted on 11/12/2010 4:20:01 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: LadyPilgrim

That is a great rendition I loved it thanks

Here is a number 2, I sing to myself all the time, and plan to have both sung at my funeral

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR8rlTIU8_Y&feature=related


1,576 posted on 11/12/2010 4:29:08 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: smvoice; RnMomof7
...so...you wouldn’t follow his directive?

I am saying your entire scenario is absurd. Suicide is against the fifth commandment. No pope or anyone else can order a Catholic to commit sin.

So when was there an infallible teaching that God would not call the entire church home at one time?

Infallible teaching from the creeds says that Christ will come at the End to "judge the living and the dead." That means a last generation remnant will still be living when the sheep are separated from the goats.

1,577 posted on 11/12/2010 4:43:01 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Natural Law; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
Absent any standard or authority other than their own whims each is his own each is his own denomination, each is his own pope and each his own magisterium relying on notions confused with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

So we're not cookie cutter Christians. Big deal. We all agree on the fact that salvation is through faith in Christ alone. That's all that's needed for God to declare us righteous.

1 Corinthians 12:4-30

4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.

7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. One Body with Many Members

12For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

14For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." 22On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

27Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

1,578 posted on 11/12/2010 5:00:25 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Funny that Catholics main criticism of Protestants is that each is his own pope.

Well, even if that were a problem, it couldn't get much worse than this ....

Having one pope for everyone is no guarantee that error isn't creeping in. It just means that lots of people get lead astray all at once.

1,579 posted on 11/12/2010 5:04:21 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

They do not understand MM..


1,580 posted on 11/12/2010 5:05:06 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: RnMomof7
"GOOD catholics, that follow the church and her teachings would go to hell..."

This just shows the contempt Calvinists have for the teachings of a loving and forgiving God that they would believe that Good people, striving to follow Christ would go to hell. It shows that the Calvinist concept of sin is not that it requires a conscious choice of evil over good, but a failure of coerced conformance to a set of rules. This is not at all like the Catholic belief that to obey (from the Latin ob-audire, to "hear or listen to") in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard.

This makes me better understand the Calvinist rejection of works since works reluctantly performed are not a gift to God and will not help with ones Salvation.

1,581 posted on 11/12/2010 5:09:14 PM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: Natural Law; annalex; smvoice; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; ...
We don't need to imagine anything. The phone book is full of a multitude of Paulian Protestant denominations, schisms, splinter groups and out right cults.

That's not a problem. Annalex already declared that Catholics are Pauline Christians because Paul's theology supports Catholic doctrine. It's no different than any of the Protestant Churches who base their theology on Paul's teachings.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2618333/posts?page=1488#1488

annalex:Everything S,.t Paul write is inspired scripture and supports the Catholic doctrines. Whoever disparaged St. Paul doesn’t understand Catholicism. We are Pauline Christians.

1,582 posted on 11/12/2010 5:13:05 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

:)!


1,583 posted on 11/12/2010 5:20:05 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: OLD REGGIE

Yeah. That’ll be the day....


1,584 posted on 11/12/2010 5:21:22 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Natural Law; OLD REGGIE

Not an unexpected response.


1,585 posted on 11/12/2010 5:22:11 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Natural Law
This just shows the contempt Calvinists have for the teachings of a loving and forgiving God that they would believe that Good people, striving to follow Christ would go to hell.

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.

Can you not see my point? What you have written is not a salvation by grace but of wages earned..God owes men NOTHING but the fire of Hell..

There is no such thing a a 'GOOD 'person in Gods eyes. EVERY man has broken His laws, every man deserved to have His judgement.. Hell will be full of people that think they are "good" . Hell will be full of people that think the others with them were "good" people... But we are not judged by the standards of men, we are judged by the standard of God.

Jesus came to do what we could never do.. then his "report card " which had all A's on it is given to those that repent and He takes their report card filled with F's to the cross.. jesus came to fulfill the law for us..(2 Corinthians 5:21)

The pride of men want to earn heaven ... Trusting in one's self, trusting in rules, trusting in works gives men the glory ...not Christ ..

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.” (John 11:25)

1,586 posted on 11/12/2010 5:27:32 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: RnMomof7

Of course not. I didn’t understand when I was a Catholic too, and dead in my sins.

When I came to Christ and had the new birth, my eyes were opened to see the truth.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.


1,587 posted on 11/12/2010 5:28:29 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

I just heard a great line from David Jeremiah on the radio .

He said the unsaved can never understand salvation because they have never experienced it. .

I thought how true that is..How can we explain the change that a circumcised heart makes.. How your entire life changes ?

We can not, because there are not human words to explain a spiritual birth


1,588 posted on 11/12/2010 5:32:28 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: Natural Law
We don't need to imagine anything. The phone book is full of a...

The phone book? If you are seeking truth, go to GOD'S WORD! Don't look to man for anything - JESUS IS THE WAY and THE TRUTH. Jesus is The Living Word.

denominations, schisms, splinter groups and out right cults.

Deception exists! That's why we turn to the Most Holy, Almighty, Beloved, Ever Living Faithful God and His Word only - the narrow straight path. Just the way He wants and designed it to be!

It's ALL about Jesus It Is Finished. HE did it ALL for us.
1,589 posted on 11/12/2010 5:34:10 PM PST by presently no screen name ("Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down.." Mark 7:13)
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To: presently no screen name; OLD REGGIE

What others thought about Jesus’s family does not prove they were biological children on Mary, but merely that they were from the same household. Further, the word “brother” in antuique usage is not limited to chidlren of the same parents; see for example Lot and Abraham are said to be “brothers”


1,590 posted on 11/12/2010 5:40:50 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: metmom; OLD REGGIE; presently no screen name

It is important because it is the truth known to the Church from 1c, and truth matters.


1,591 posted on 11/12/2010 5:42:23 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: metmom
Then why are Protestants castigated for wanting to return to it and use IT as the point of authority for spiritual matters?

You are not castigated for that -- I am doing the same thing in denouncing Protestantism as a counterscriptural invention. Your error is that you deviate from the scripture in matters central to the faith: you deny the guidance of the Church, the sacraments of the Church, and you invented the false theory of salvation being by faith alone. All that is contrary to the scripture. Further, while the scripture is indeed "a point of authority", your error is to consider it the sole point of authority, whereas, again, that is not in the scripture.

1,592 posted on 11/12/2010 5:47:17 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: smvoice

Because it is true.


1,593 posted on 11/12/2010 5:48:10 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: presently no screen name

Patience is a sign of error?


1,594 posted on 11/12/2010 5:49:14 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: RnMomof7

Sorry, I had to run an errand and just got back.
Ohhhh yes, that’s beautiful too and I love singing it in our church.


1,595 posted on 11/12/2010 5:52:56 PM PST by LadyPilgrim ((Lifted up was He to die; It is finished was His cry; Hallelujah what a Savior!!!!!! ))
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To: mas cerveza por favor
Just one question regarding your post: Is the "fifth commandment" you mentioned actually the "sixth commandment"? Because your Church removed the "second commandment" which dealt with NO IDOLS, right? So you are actually speaking of the sixth commandment, death for murder. Right?

I'm going to assume that's the one you are referencing. And I will say, never say never, mas. No pope can order a Catholic to commit murder? How about Pope Urban II in 1095. Or during the next 200 years the eight futile crusades that popes sent thousands of crusaders to die for? And Gregory IX instituting the Roman Inquisition in 1231 in order to purge the Church of heretics? And then there is the Spanish Inquisition (1478-1820). Do not say that Popes cannot order a Catholic to commit sin. Unless you believe that killing non-Catholics isn't a sin.

1,596 posted on 11/12/2010 5:54:55 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: editor-surveyor; metmom; Belteshazzar; Gamecock; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; ...
“Call no man Father”

Apparently a lot of the Apostles did not get the memo on that. Acts 22:1, 1 John 2:13.

Pastors that are unmarried

The Church can bind and loose on that (Mt 18:18). Some are married others are not. We sure don't have priests that have more than one wife, in accordance with 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1.

‘Salvation’ by works

We don't teach salvation by works. We teach salvation by grace alone through faith and good works (Eph 2:5-10) (no these are not the same as works of the law).

Prayer to the dead.

Where is that forbidden in the scripture? Maccabees has a direct example; it is not our problem that you truncated your Bible.

Repetitive prayer.

Jesus repeated His prayers. What Matthew 6:7 condemns is not repetition in itself but the idea that unless they repeat the prayer they are not heard.

Purgatory. Clear scripture on that, 1 Cor 3:9-15.

Seances in place of the rememberance of Communion

Huh? Christ said, "this is my body", and we take Him at his word.

Following traditions of men.

Those men are "bishops [who] rule the church of God" (Acts 20:28). Worry about following traditions of charlatans like Luther instead. Who appointed him?

Statues/idols worshiped and revered.

We don't worship idols. We venerate Holy Images. See reference to the Crucifix in Gal 3:1. See instruction to venerate the icons of God and be trasnformed by them in 2 Corinthians 3:18.

Relecs worshiped and revered

They are venerated, just like the holy Images. See an example of that in Acts 19:12

Secret confession booths

Nowhere in the Bible is that prohibited.

Just what do catholics do that is scriptural?

The authoority of the apostolic Church, the necessity of the sacraments of the Church, salvation being a result of a life time of sanctification through faith and good works, -- all these are things that are scriptural and denied by the Protestant heretics.

1,597 posted on 11/12/2010 6:36:34 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: editor-surveyor

“that ugly falsehood “ is the Holy Scripture.


1,598 posted on 11/12/2010 6:37:24 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Natural Law; RnMomof7
Wow, this is a target rich environment. Yet you do bring up some solid topics of discussion.
This just shows the contempt Calvinists have for the teachings of a loving and forgiving God that they would believe that Good people, striving to follow Christ would go to hell.

I guess the contempt "Calvinists" would have for such teachings depends on what exactly is being taught in terms of a "loving and forgiving god". What you do offer for us to consider is the person who is:

"to follow Christ" is "Religious-speak" for God only knows what, it is sort of a Rorschach test for each person. A spiritual Mad-lib where you insert whatever work you want to trade in for God's alleged approval. This is sort of blasphemous because it says that man can initiate covenants with God and obligate Him to our vanity quid pro quos.

Rather, it is fascinating to see what the Scriptures have to say about what it is to "follow". Let's start in an odd place where we have a contrast with the same word.

John 13:36 "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward."

Being that this passage is from the famous prediction of Peter's denial of Christ, it is pretty obvious that the first "follow" refers to the Cross. Jesus is pretty much saying, that this aspect of "following Christ" isn't to die nailed to a tree.

Now skip back a bit to yet another confrontation with the Scribes and Pharisees - who, by the way, were experts on following God's commandments.

John 8:21 "I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come."

The reprobated Pharisees immediately thought of the Grave, and that He would commit suicide. Our LORD clarified it by saying "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.". Contrast this statement of our LORD to the Pharisees to the one that He speaks to Peter. In the case of those who had "works righteousness" down to a literal science, they were told that in all of their works, they COULD NOT follow Christ. Peter, OTOH, was promised that he would follow Christ without any mention of works.

The Scribes and the Pharisees were well known for their obedience to the Law. Do you think that Jesus Christ was thinking of "works" when He said "Follow Me" in the second phrase to Peter? Here is another hint:

John 12:26"If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.

The plot thickens, for He makes "Following" Him a consequence of serving Him. That is, "to follow Christ" is not works as it is treated differently than service to our LORD. Furthermore, He says "where I am, My servant will be also". Clearly, to "follow" Christ is not talking about works, but is something that Reprobates CAN'T do but the Saved CAN do. The experts in the Law could do all the Godly works they so desired, but after all of that work, they would still not be with Him.

Need more?

Matthew 19:16-22, Mark 10:17-22, or Luke 18:18-23. All the same, where our LORD counsels the Rich Young Ruler to first keep the commandments, to which the young man claimed he had faithfully followed all of the Law. Then our LORD told him to sell all of his possessions (a "work" no where found in the Law) where he would then have "treasure in heaven". Basically, our LORD said that the man could keep all of his valuables, except they would be transformed and relocated to heaven. (unlike the bilge you hear from so many pastors during Stewardship Month when they have an underfunded building program on their hands).

When the man didn't like the deal, he declined because his mind clearly was not on Heaven, but on the here and now. He valued temporal life more than eternal life. Thus, when given the choice of heaven or earth, he chose earth. What were our LORD's last words to Him after telling him to exchange all of his temporal goods for heavenly ones? He added, "and come, follow Me."

Coincidence? Hardly. To follow Christ means to be with Him in Paradise. It means to value the things above more than the things below. The Scribes and Pharisees were Reprobates - Predestined to damnation and that is why, no matter how obedient to the Law they were, they would never be able to "Follow Me". That is why God told Peter that "later" he would not only be able, but will indeed "Follow Me", because later, Peter would join our LORD in heaven.

The Scribes and Pharisees "strived to follow" through obedience to the Law, to find their righteousness in works rather than Grace. To Peter, there was no mention of works, no mention of striving, indeed, the Promise came immediately behind a rebuke. There was no, "if", no fine print, no sunset language or contingencies when our LORD told Peter that he would indeed "follow" Christ afterwards. The Promise to Peter was not due to Peter's merit, past or future, it was unmerited, it was Grace Alone.

This is yet another passage of predestination and Calvinism in full view. Here, the Scribes and Pharisees were predestined to Hell. Another passage that must be the most terrifying in Scripture is John 10:26, to the same audience our LORD declares their reprobation.

John 10:26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you."

Notice that due to the Closed Book Principle found in 1 Corinthians 2:14, the Scribes would never be able to believe and thus will die in their sins because they were not Chosen by God to be part of the Father's flock given to Christ. This is what Jesus said to them. Terrifying indeed for the Almighty God to say to your face that you will be eternally estranged from God.

In Peter's denial, we have a picture of the natural man, not understanding the things of God, and thus the "Get Behind Me Satan" Peter demonstrated his misunderstanding of our LORD's tasks yet again. What is beautiful to see is that in this condemnation, there was the promise of regeneration, salvation and eternal life with our Savior in the phrase "and you shall Follow Me afterwards". To be with Christ requires Election by God and salvation. And here our LORD said in few words the Promise of Redemption that began in the Garden and perfected at Calvary.

And you thought Calvinists couldn't see God's love. We see it in places you Romanists would never find it.

1,599 posted on 11/12/2010 6:39:36 PM PST by The Theophilus
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To: editor-surveyor; OLD REGGIE; metmom; Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; ...

Tabernacle is where we put consecrated Eucharist, the central part of a Catholic church. Since when that is St. Peter’s body?


1,600 posted on 11/12/2010 6:39:54 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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