Skip to comments.LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible
Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
I post the passage where the woman with the issue of blood for many years reached out to touch just the hem of jesus garment, faithing that He could heal her, and Jesus turning to tell her her faith hath made her whole ... and she was unclean thus her work was as filthy rags in Jesus's presence, but her faith in Him caused her healing by Him.
I posted passage after passage where Jesus tells those made whole that it is their faith which hath made them whole. And still the unregerate mind refuses to see the truth. The poster himself even offered a passage from John which has Jesus explaining that works of righteousness do not happen unless God is in you, because Jesus told the Pharisees even if they do not believe He is The Son of Man, to look at the works which Jesus could not do unless God be in Him the author of the works. And still the darkness is more comfortable to the poster. Pride/selfrighteousness is a very powerful poison dontchaknow.
No way around it carnal profane words are carnal profane words and come from a place where the almighty is not present!
No way around it carnal profane words are carnal profane words and come from a place where the almighty is not present!
Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there an harlot, and went in unto her.
And yet GOD used this man.
The simple fact that Rom 5:6 & 8 Christ died for us while we were BOTH ungodly and sinners, within the entire book of Romans, we do not have to do anything to EARN that salvation.
There is no one that Jesus didn’t die for. But the salvation offered by Christ is not something that can be earned by works of righteousness - but strictly by grace. Paul said it best -
So are you saying Godzilla, that Lucifer will receive grace?
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast aboutbut not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abrahams faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
God also uses Satan!
Someone was attempting to pass judgment on FreeRepublic, and as usual could not accomplish the hateful task.
Metmom is correct, you however do not give the rest of the story stourme
The other side of the equation is daily repentance.
Not according to mormon doctrine and the teachings of your apostles and prophets stourme. Take for example the misrepresented term 'repentance' what does your doctrine state?
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 58:43: By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sinsbehold, he will confess them and forsake them.
If you are having to continually "repent" stourme - then you never REALLY repented in the first place - according to your doctrine. Your prophet stated:
Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily transgression and daily repentance is not that which is pleasing in the sight of God. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 148
Wow, daily 'repentance' is not pleasing to your 'god' stourme. Are you willfully trying to mislead, or are have you been misled in this point?
In fact, because you have not 'repented', your doctrine states -
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 82:7: And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.
You have to start cleansing yourself from all your past sins too, and your god cuts you no slack does he -
ALMA 45:16: for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.
Remember the term "filthy rags" stourme? Beginning to see it is impossible for you to become 'worthy' or godly enough for Jesus' grace.
Tell us when you have done ALL you can do.
Control as long as the prozac holds out.
NEVER, lucifer is not a human being, never was, never will be, but a different creation all together. Because of his place infront of God, there was no excuse for his rebellion, nor any provision for any grace. His was a form of the unpardonable sin.
Humanity is a separate creation from the angels. I know mormonism doesn't teach that, but you asked MY interpretation as a Christian.
Romans 4:4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Sorry, Resty, Jesus and Lucifer have never been brothers and never will be brothers. You're exposing your profound ignorance of Christianity, Resty. Give it a rest.
Why, you mean that the UNGODLY do not have to work to be worth, but simple faith and that it is a WORK OF GOD that credits them as being righteous!!! Making God's grace and OBLIGATION through works.
NEVER, lucifer is not a human being, never was, never will be, but a different creation all together.
Thanks JR ...and amen
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
The auDACITY to post historical FACTS?
I just want to thank all of you that monitor the religion forum. This has to be the toughest of the forums to mod..
Every one of us have done hard nose apologetics on this forum, we have said words that others have taken offense at.. and every one of us has had words said to us that offend.. That is what freedom of speech means.. it does not mean the right not to be offended..
The mods here keep the line of traffic open without stomping on the rights of anyone here
Thanks again for all you guys do
Thou almost temptest me...
but not all hearts are unrighteious!
Yes Resty, every one...
There are none righteous, no not one...Romans 3:10
And just what ARE there 'requirements'?
I can produce a list of MORMON ones if you can't find Jesus'.
And just what will happen to a person if these 'requirements' are not kept?
Ignore my last question and just SHOW the Scripture that this assertion comes from.
OK; I think I get it now:
SAVED by Grace;
KEPT by Works.
Oh so TRUE!!
Works are ONLY needed if you want to KEEP your salvation!
--MormonDude(oh yeah; and pay yer 10% - on time - regularly, too.)
I just reread your post: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2622457/posts?page=100#100
You claim there are conditions that you must meet to receive salvation.
I pointed out that Christ died for the ungodly- not for those who “try to be worthy.
You said that was “utterly devoid of truth.”
You were wrong. It was exactly what the Apostle Paul wrote.
As it turns out, your post was false.
If you believe what you posted, you will spend eternity in hell.
It will be because you refused to acknowledge that you are ungodly and tried to earn your own worthiness.
You can instead, turn to Him and acknowledge your own sinfulness, ungodliness and utter inability to live righteously.
Is that a Southern type “ bless your little heart” ???
Or a regular kind ???
God created: Psalms 33:6; Psalm 148:2,5; Isaiah 40:26; Ephesians 3:9-10; Revelation 10:6; Nehemiah 9:6
Christ created: Colossians 1:16.
You value your RELIGION more than your CONSERVATISM.
Mormonism says that if you need to repent, then you've sinned. And if you've sinned; then you REALLY didn't repent the LAST time.
I get to be Mary Magdalene in our Christmas program PlaceMarker...
There are none better than she was...
Even David, called 'a man after GOD's own heart' commited grievous sins and yet he cried out in psalm 51:
10 Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
Restore to me the joy of your salvation
NOT Restore to me your salvation
Natural man TN speak for yourself!
Can ya kinda give us an EXAMPLE of what you have claimed?
So; since YOU have asked for Scripture references; are YOU going to produce when asked; too?
I suggest reading #239 before you condemn anyone else to hell.
They are not my words, Resty...
There are none righteous, no not one...Paul, Romans 3:10
If our righteousness is as filthy rags to God, just how can anyone consider that they would in any way make one worthy to then receive and continue on in grace?
The best we can do is then the same as doing nothing.
239 proves nothing except it is a demonstration of a flawed, perverted gospel.
And getting hammered from all quarters, not just FR...
When you feel condemnation, it isn’t AMPU bringing that feeling. Do you know Who loves you so much that He will continue to whisper His condemnation while you yet have time to repent and trust in Him to be your Savior, right now? Do you have a clue Whom loves you so much that wants you to be born again, right now? Do you know Whose promises cannot be broken, the One Who has promised to come into your dead spirit and bring Life and never leave you or forsake you? Don’t be like Felix (Acts 24:25), be like Zacchaeus (Luke19:5&6).
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. Isaiah 64:6
I have G.R.I.T.S. as potty time reading material. You guess which it is!
It goes with the job.
Thank you for your support.
In reply to your post #133, I’m sorry, I misread your post and commented in post #90, thinking you were promoting Mormonism...then didn’t have time to come back to the thread for awhile!