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LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible
Utah Lighthouse Ministry.org ^

Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian

LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...

It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).

LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:

"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).

LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:

"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:

"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).

LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:

"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)

LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:

"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).

LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:

"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)

LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:

"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).

LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:

"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).

As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:

"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]

Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:

"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son ­ embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]

LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:

"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the Bible Says About God

1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.

"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12

"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6

"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25

The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.

2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.

"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4

"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9

"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17

"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5

"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142

The LDS god achieved holiness.

3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.

"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28

"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5

The LDS god had to learn everything.

4. ALL POWERFUL

"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6

"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20

The LDS god attained his power.

5. OMNIPRESENT

"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1

"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24

The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.

6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION

"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24

"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6

"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6

The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.

7. NO OTHER GODS

"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11

"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8

"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9

"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8

The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.

For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:

Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; god; inman; lds; mormon
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To: Normandy
I don’t know any Mormon who has said they are going to enter into God’s presence by virtue of their own righteousness.

Then why all the work to make themselves "righteous"?

601 posted on 11/09/2010 1:29:55 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Stourme; MHGinTN; Elsie; Godzilla; Paragon Defender; Ripliancum; Logophile; handmade; DelphiUser; ..
simply believing Jesus is the Son of God is not enough to enter heaven. [Stourme]

If/should any TB Mormon disagree with the "confession" or "profession" I laid out in the previous post (#599), here is an alternative profession of non-faith in the Lds "prophets"...and the point is...cognitively and faith commitment/faith consistency wise, Mormons really need to choose one of these two oaths (or ones so similarly written):

"I John or Jane Mormon
profess that the quotations below made by Lds "prophets" and general authorities and leaders are false.
I repudiate such beliefs in these other-worldly faith commitments expressed by these Mormon leaders...
as I believe God is a God of grace, mercy, and compassion
who will not limit those living in His presence for eternity
on the basis of such things as their singleness...
or the lack of membership in the Mormon church."

Signed
John or Jane Mormon .

Relevant Quotations from Mormon "prophets," general authorities and leaders:

Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th Lds "prophet": "Those who were honorable men who will be permitted to go to the terrestrial kingdom will be blessed with ministrations from the celestial kingdom. They will be privileged with visitations from Jesus Christ but will be denied the presence of the Father." (Source: Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol. 1, p. 81; context was he was writing about the so-called "middle kingdom of heaven" -- called the terrestial kingdom by Lds)

Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th Lds "prophet": "NOT HALF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS TO BE SAVED. Those who receive the fulness will be privileged to view the face of our Father. There will not be such an overwhelming number of the Latter-day Saints who will get there." (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:15)

Lds church official publication: “…resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God…we need His grace to purify and perfect us ‘after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23).” (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77)

Encyclopedia of Mormonism: “Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and a wife. It means not only living in God’s presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including the power to bear children after the resurrection.” (Encylopedia of Mormonism, 2:479)

George Albert Smith, 8th Lds "prophet": "There are some people who have supposed that if we are quickened telestial bodies that eventually, throughout the ages of eternity, we will continue to progress until we will find our place in the celestial kingdom, but the scriptures and revelations of God have said that those who are quicked telestial bodies cannot come where God and Christ dwell, worlds without end." (Conference Reports, October 1945, p. 172)

Spencer W. Kimball, 12th Lds "prophet": "No progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal!" (The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 243-244)

602 posted on 11/09/2010 1:31:10 PM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I, not being an astronomur, wuz wunderin’. ;o)


603 posted on 11/09/2010 1:32:24 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Normandy

Try answering with what you believe rather than the spin which parses the words to allow nearly any interpretation you want for the phrasing. You post clearly makes residency conditional —’can’— as if the Holy Spirit will yoyo back and forth, in and out, based upon how well you’re doing during a particular phase of life. That may be the god of Mormonism’s way, but it is NOT the way of I AM. You can accept the Crucifixion of Jesus as your substitutionary atonement only ONCE. You cannot crucifiy again the Lord of Glory. [Do you need the Bible passage which teaches that? ... You seem familiar with the Bible so that I’m sure you know where Paul asserted that Truth.]


604 posted on 11/09/2010 1:38:04 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: greyfoxx39

In my experience the work comes from a love of God and fellowman and a desire to serve.


605 posted on 11/09/2010 1:39:33 PM PST by Normandy
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To: MHGinTN

Well the reason I said “can”, is that it is possible to s quench the Spirit through sin (1 Thess 5:19) and therefore lose its influence.


606 posted on 11/09/2010 1:51:33 PM PST by Normandy
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To: Colofornian
Wow is right
607 posted on 11/09/2010 1:52:13 PM PST by delacoert
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To: restornu

Lucifer was one of the sons of God
____________________________________________

No Lucifer was never a son of God...

God only ever had one begotten son, the LORD Jesus Christ...

Lucifer was never human or God...

Lucifer was a created being, an angel who was the music director in Heaven...

He thought he was greater than God and rebelled ...

he convinved 1/3 of the angels to rebel with him...

God picked him up and tossed him out of Heaven along with thise 1/3 angels who rebelled with him...

Lucifer became Satan the devil and the 1/3 angels became demons...

Lucifer/Satan is never to be worshipped or obeyed...he has nothing to do with God...

Lucifer/Satan is evil...he lies all the time...and tempts humans to rebel against God and sin...

Lucifer/Satan wants to keep as many humans out of Heaven as he can...

The end of Lucifer/Satan and his demons is a pit of fire...


608 posted on 11/09/2010 1:56:05 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Normandy

The passage you posted also seems to indicate that having the Holy Spirit is conditional upon the works of the individual floowing the ‘commandments’. Jesus said there is one thing which God requires to do the work, and Jesus also gave two commandments which fullfill all the law and the prophets. Smith &co have added a whole lot to those two commandments. And the commandments are the nautral outworking of God’s Life in the human spirit, causing the nature of God to come forth int he behavior of the faither. That is the effective, applied Gospel of Grace in Christ Jesus, that God lives in the believer, not because the believer live righteously enough that God will then come in. Faithing is an action word, but the intiial act of being Born Again is what makes the faithing happen, not the human will to do all that you can do to be worthy.


609 posted on 11/09/2010 1:58:52 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

I’m not sure what you mean by “faithing” — I haven’t heard that word before.


610 posted on 11/09/2010 2:08:58 PM PST by Normandy
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To: restornu
to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Does your religion teach that everyone who is not a Mormon is a gentile, including Jews?

611 posted on 11/09/2010 2:10:49 PM PST by Graybeard58
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To: Normandy

I am really sorry that you do not read my posts to you inw hich I’ve noted on more than one occasion that the explanation is on my profile page. Have a safe evening, I’m off to watch Glenn Beck and take notes.


612 posted on 11/09/2010 2:12:39 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: delacoert

TERMINOLOGY DIFFERENCES

By Sandra Tanner

Introduction

    Whenever an evangelical Christian and a Latter-day Saint engage in a doctrinal discussion they encounter the problem of terminology. LDS leaders use the standard  vocabulary of Christianity but with radically different definitions. A Christian should never take for granted that his/her LDS friend understands common Christian terms in the biblical way.

    Because the Bible has many warnings about false prophets (Matthew 24:11, 24; 2 Corinthians 11:4, 13; 1 John 4:1) and people teaching strange doctrines (2 Peter 2:12; Galatians 1:6-8; Hebrews 13:9), it is essential that we understand what the Bible says on various doctrines.

    The references below will demonstrate that the LDS Church is indeed teaching a different god and a counterfeit gospel, thus offering a false hope.

    The following list of Christian terms will be defined by LDS sources and then by biblical quotes. While this is not a complete list of terminology differences, it will cover the most basic ones. For a more detailed look at terminology differences, see The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism.

 

Terms:

  1. GODHEAD
  2. JESUS CHRIST
  3. PREMORTAL LIFE
  4. THE FALL
  5. VIRGIN BIRTH
  6. SIN
  7. FORGIVENESS
  8. SALVATION BY GRACE
  9. REDEEMED
  10. GOSPEL
  11. BORN AGAIN
  12. TRUE CHURCH
  13. AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD
  14. BAPTISM
  15. SONS OF GOD
  16. ETERNAL LIFE
  17. IMMORTALITY
  18. HELL
  19. HEAVEN
  20. KINGDOM OF GOD


Eternal Progression Chart


GODHEAD

LDS: Father & Son are resurrected men with physical bodies. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body. Three totally separate Gods. God is married. Other Gods for other worlds. (D&C 130:22; Teachings, pp. 345-346, pp. 370-373; Doctrines of Salvation,v.1, p. 10-12)
BIBLE: God is not a man. (Num. 23:19) He has always been God. (Psa. 90:2; Mal. 3:6; Hab. 1:12; Rom. 1:22-25) Only one God. (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22) Father is Spirit and invisible. (John 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17)
(GODHEAD: click here for complete quotes and references.)

JESUS CHRIST

LDS: Literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the premortal life. Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)
BIBLE: Fully God, not a subordinate deity. Eternal. (Isa. 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 13:8; John 1:1-4, 14; Col. 1:16-17)
(JESUS CHRIST: click here for complete quotes and references.)

PREMORTAL LIFE

LDS: Teach that everyone existed in heaven before born on earth. We have existed eternally. (D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354)
BIBLE: Only Christ existed before mortality, not man. (John 8:58; Col. 1:17) Our existence started on earth. (Zec. 12:1; 1 Cor. 15:46)
(PREMORTAL LIFE: click here for complete quotes and references.)

THE FALL

LDS: Fall was a blessing. It brought mortality, ability to have children and physical death. Adam was given conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall. (Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 1, pp. 111-116; Gospel Principles, pp. 31-33; 2 Nephi 2:25; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 268-269)
BIBLE: God intended obedience. Gen. 1:28. God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is sinful. (Rom. 5:12; 8:5-8; 1 Cor. 2:14)
(THE FALL: click here for complete quotes and references.)

VIRGIN BIRTH

LDS: Believe God, as a resurrected physical man, is literal Father of Jesus—same manner in which men are conceived on earth. Believe Matt. 1:18 is in error. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547, 742)
BIBLE: Mary was "with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:30-35)
(VIRGIN BIRTH: click here for complete quotes and references.)

SIN

LDS: Specific acts, not man's basic nature. Must know act is wrong to be a sin. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 550, 735-736)
BIBLE: We are in spiritual rebellion until conversion. (Eph. 2:3; Rom. 5:6) We do not just commit sins; we are basically sinful. (Matt. 1:21; Jer. 17:9; Luke 5:32)
(SIN: click here for complete quotes and references.)

FORGIVENESS

LDS: Granted at end of process of repentance and reformed behavior (Mormon Doctrine, p. 292-298; Gospel Principles, pp. 75-77, p. 123; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 133-134)
BIBLE: Complete forgiveness granted the moment we turn to Christ. (Mark 2:5; Col. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:6-7)
(FORGIVENESS: click here for complete quotes and references.)

SALVATION BY GRACE

LDS: Believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection. Salvation by grace is universal resurrection. Beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven. Saved by grace after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)
BIBLE: Salvation is not limited to universal resurrection but gift of God to those who believe. (Rom. 1:16; Heb. 9:28; Eph. 2:8-9)
(SALVATION BY GRACE: click here for complete quotes and references.)

REDEEMED

LDS: From mortal death only. Not same as Eternal Life. (Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 2, pp. 10-15)
BIBLE: Redeemed from more than mortal death; redeemed from spiritual death & given Eternal Life. (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:1; Gal. 4:4-5)
(REDEEMED: click here for complete quotes and references.)

GOSPEL

LDS: Doctrines and commandments of the LDS Church. True gospel restored by Joseph Smith. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 331; 334; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 156-159)
BIBLE: Good news of Christ’s death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:6-8)
(GOSPEL: click here for complete quotes and references.)

BORN AGAIN

LDS: Baptism into the LDS Church. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 101)
BIBLE: We are spiritually dead until our spiritual birth. (1 Pet. 1:23; 2 Cor. 5:17; John 3:7, 14, 15)
(BORN AGAIN: click here for complete quotes and references.)

TRUE CHURCH

LDS: Only the Mormon Church. The true church was taken from the earth until Joseph Smith restored it. (D&C 1:30; 115:3, 4; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 133, 136)
BIBLE: Not an organization; as born-again Christians we are part of God's Church. (1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 16:18; 18:19-20)
(TRUE CHURCH: click here for complete quotes and references.)

AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD

LDS: Believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc. Have two-part system of priesthood—Melchizedek and Aaronic. (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 80-81; D&C 107:1-21)
BIBLE: Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the only High Priest after the manner of Melchizedek. (Heb. 5:9-10; 7:11-17; 7:24-27; 2 Tim. 2:2)
(AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD: click here for complete quotes and references.)

BAPTISM

LDS: Must be performed by LDS priesthood. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 69-72)
BIBLE: Emphasis is on Believer—not priesthood authority. (Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:37-41; 16:30-34)
(BAPTISM: click here for complete quotes and references.)

SONS OF GOD

LDS: We were all born in heaven, prior to earth, as literal spirit children of God and his wife. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 589-590)
BIBLE: Spiritually adopted at conversion. (John 1:12; Gal. 3:26)
(SONS OF GOD: click here for complete quotes and references.)

ETERNAL LIFE

LDS: Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom; godhood and ability to bear children in heaven. Must have a temple recommend and be sealed in Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4; 132:19-25, 30, 55)
BIBLE: Not limited to certain ones in the top part of heaven. No mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to all true believers. (1 John 5:12-13; Luke 20:35-36)
(ETERNAL LIFE: click here for complete quotes and references.)

IMMORTALITY

LDS: Universal gift. The ability to go to heaven and live forever but not same as Eternal Life. Lower level of heaven and unable to bear children. (D&C 14:7; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 237, 376-377, 670)
BIBLE: Makes no distinction between immortality and eternal life. No second class citizens in heaven. (2 Tim. 1:10; John 3:15-16)
(IMMORTALITY: click here for complete quotes and references.)

HELL

LDS: Hell as an institution is eternal—inmates come and go as in jail, but do not spend eternity there. Temporary. After debt is paid they will go to the Telestial Kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 349-351)
BIBLE: No mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt. 13:24-43, 47-50; Luke 16:26)
(HELL: click here for complete quotes and references.)

HEAVEN

LDS: Divided into three kingdoms—Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial. A place for almost everyone. (D&C 88:16-20; Misuse of 1 Cor. 15:40-41)
BIBLE: Only mentions two conditions—everlasting punishment or eternal life. (Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10)
(HEAVEN: click here for complete quotes and references.)

KINGDOM OF GOD

LDS: Means Celestial Kingdom. Only those in the Celestial Kingdom are in God's presence. Those in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms are not in the presence of the Father. (D&C 76:50-88; 131:1-4; 132:16-17)
BIBLE: All redeemed will be in God's presence. (Rev. 21:1-3) All believers are part of Kingdom. (Matt. 13:41-43)
(KINGDOM OF GOD: click here for complete quotes and references.)

 

LDS References:

 

 

Go to Terminology References

Go to Online Resources



613 posted on 11/09/2010 2:15:22 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Osage Orange
What about folks that can't talk?

Personally I understand the scripture....but I also know God. And He knows our hearts.

Just Going by what the Book says:

Romans 10 Vs 9-11: (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

614 posted on 11/09/2010 2:19:27 PM PST by Graybeard58
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To: Normandy
In my experience the work comes from a love of God and fellowman and a desire to serve.

So, there is no self-serving goal such as reaching a "celestial kingdom" involved? Then why all the temple requirements and ceremonies? Love of God and a desire to serve?

Millions have loved God and served man through the years without all the rigamarole of chants and hand signals and proscribed underwear. Of course, the pat answer is that is what proxy baptism is for. Thankfully, the world's Christian population doesn't buy that. It's a shame that so many do literally, buy it.

615 posted on 11/09/2010 2:22:07 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Colofornian
Mormons really need to choose one of these two oaths (or ones so similarly written):

Why? Are you in a position to decide what Mormons need to do?

616 posted on 11/09/2010 2:28:22 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Colofornian

The loud bumping sounds you will hear are more mormon apostles and prophets being tossed under the bus by mormon apologists.


617 posted on 11/09/2010 2:45:13 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Logophile; Colofornian

Log: Are you in a position to decide what Mormons need to do?
________________________________________________

Log have you ever said those same words to Hinckley or Munson...

or Oakes or Peterson

Or one of the first presidency

or a mormon apostle or a mormon elder...

or one of a 70

or one of the 12 apostles...

or your bishop, stake president, ward president...

mission president, MTC president,

BYU president, BYU professor...

husband, wife, father...

mormon missionary..

Then since you havent...

Then why did you ask C that ???


618 posted on 11/09/2010 2:48:19 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Stourme; DelphiUser
"...The constant jabs, the ridicule, rudness, the ugliness..."

"The nastier the better."

Yes, yes let's demonstrate what you're talking about shall we?

You talk about “nastiness”, which is particularly lame, as if that substantiates or quantifies any of the lies in the post.

Unlike others on the board, I like to use actual comments/comparisons/quotes, much more objective and factual. They can’t be denied, one can only try to ignore them. And then, pop up again and make the same allegations/accusations (bear false witness) IOW, lie about FReepers.

Let’s see how your nondescript use of the word “nastiness” compares to “actual mormon comments and quotes” shall we?

Anti’s and any who question mormonism;

accused of being accessories to murder

accused of being accessories to arson

compared to Gadianton robbers

compared to pigs

are Atherosclorotic

are sociopaths

behave like swine

are pigs in need of washing

are dishonest (false allegation, never addressed by the mormon)

are yammering mocking demons

are spewers of hate

are vermin

are twisted thinkers

are slanderers

are gangsters

are liars (false allegation, never addressed by the mormon)

Just to name a few.

These are actual comments/comparisons/quotes from mormons directed at any they deem "worthy" of scorn or discrediting.

K! THX for playing! Bye!

619 posted on 11/09/2010 3:23:51 PM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: Graybeard58
I know...and I knew you knew.

I was just saying.....

Our God knows us...He knows everything. He knows our hearts...our minds, our everything.

And He knows the hearts of those that can't speak......

FRegards,

620 posted on 11/09/2010 3:27:03 PM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: SZonian

You missed an early FI fav

Hosing the pigs...


621 posted on 11/09/2010 3:31:26 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Logophile; Tennessee Nana
Why? Are you in a position to decide what Mormons need to do?

Sometimes when you formalize something, you distinguish informal commitments already established.

Example: Canonization of the Bible: Yes, this was a formal commitment; but it was based upon what was already comprehensively informally recognized within the Church.

'Twas more a "confirmation" than a "new decision" from scratch.

It's in that spirit I offer these up. I'm not really drawing up any truth commitment that is NOT already loosely or informally held by Mormons -- both those who have given the rough content within posts #599 and #602 some past or present conscious consideration...and those for whom it's been just underneath the surface.

(By "commitment" I mean a commitment to contradictory truth claims...to take one side or the other).

I'm merely "formalizing" what Mormons already loosely hold...These oaths were simply meant to draw a relief-like "word map" -- as does a 3-dimensional map does of mountains and hills and valleys.

It's not the minute details of what I wrote in posts #599 & #602 that's pertinent...I mean, Mormons can choose to "formalize" what I wrote in any way they want to...however...Logo, please answer me this:

Don't you think who gets to be with Heavenly Father in heaven forever is the very heart of the gospel? (It certainly is the Biblical Christian gospel.)

I'm very interested in your opinion on that Q from a Mormon perspective: Don't you think this same Q also either is -- or needs to be -- at the very heart of the Mormon gospel as well?

So when you ask "why" in relation to me...well, who cares about me? What's important is the truth represented there. Which version of that "truth" will John or Jane Mormon commit to? That's what's at stake.

And why is that?

Because truth beckons us to either...
...commit to it by formally and publicly embracing it...
...or run away from it...
...it doesn't leave the luxury of a "neutral middle ground" option.

622 posted on 11/09/2010 3:38:26 PM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Tennessee Nana
"are pigs in need of washing"?

I can change it to or add "hosing the pigs" but would like the entire quote if you have it.

I would like to keep it in "context" to avoid being accused of something else not already on the list. (Not that it really matters, the list is truncated already and I could use some more recent examples.)

623 posted on 11/09/2010 3:42:31 PM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: Tennessee Nana; SZonian
Hosing the pigs...

Aaaaah, the classics . . . .

624 posted on 11/09/2010 3:47:22 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Osage Orange
I know...and I knew you knew.

I know you knew I knew.

It was primarily for the edification of any who don't know and don't know that they don't know.

I know this too. You are my brother, (or sister- pretty sure it's brother though) in the Lord Jesus.

A complete aside:

My wife had back surgery Friday and is still in the hospital, I hope and pray she gets to come home tomorrow and ask for all my brother and sisters prayers for her.

625 posted on 11/09/2010 3:54:40 PM PST by Graybeard58
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To: Colofornian
RE; your tagline

“We take the Adam-God phenomenom doctrine and slide it over to that little trash can, and that’s that!”

626 posted on 11/09/2010 3:55:09 PM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: Godzilla; Tennessee Nana

Well...since I’m relatively new [when compared to you “original” FI’s] to this, I will need edification on “the classics”.

Since it appears there are some who aren’t into the current terms being bandied about. ;^)


627 posted on 11/09/2010 3:57:45 PM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: Graybeard58
Hey Brother....

I knew that you knew that I knew....ha!

Yeah....I'm a bro. And I appreciate you...

Sorry to hear about your wife....I hope she recovers quickly, and comes home.

I wish I lived near...so to help.

FRegards,

628 posted on 11/09/2010 4:05:43 PM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Godzilla
Kinda miss those dog days.....

: )

Better than getting sniped, swiped, sucked under...and accused of murder and arson.

629 posted on 11/09/2010 4:08:58 PM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: restornu; Hodar
12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

That is God instruction to each of us. You cannot change other people's attitude. Only God can do that. Heck, you can't even change your own without God's help. If someone wants to nitpick on you, then you should just accept it and

That's the whole idea behind persecution. That's why we count it all joy when we suffer persecution, because we can see growth in others or in ourselves.
630 posted on 11/09/2010 4:21:05 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: SZonian; Tennessee Nana; greyfoxx39
Well...since I’m relatively new [when compared to you “original” FI’s] to this, I will need edification on “the classics”.

Oh my, dates escape me, at least 2-3 years ago, the others could probably fill the gaps better. It was a time when the imams kinda jelled together against the rampant mormon prosletization and domination of the forum. Faced with this opposition the mormons decided that they would flood (ie hose) the forum with 'pro-mormon' threads in an attempt to overwhelm us 'pigs' with too much to respond to. It was a real donnybrook of a few months. The mormon comments towards us were less than charitable IIRC.

631 posted on 11/09/2010 4:37:34 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Osage Orange
Kinda miss those dog days..... : )

LOL you have a point there. . .

632 posted on 11/09/2010 4:38:40 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: SZonian
rotfl
633 posted on 11/09/2010 4:41:30 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Graybeard58

Prayer tree activated...I hope and pray things go well.


634 posted on 11/09/2010 4:44:10 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: SZonian

beautiful!


635 posted on 11/09/2010 4:48:36 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Colofornian
You have provided yet another verbose non-answer to a simple question.
636 posted on 11/09/2010 4:49:02 PM PST by Logophile
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To: greyfoxx39; Graybeard58

prayer bump for graybeard


637 posted on 11/09/2010 4:50:05 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Logophile; Colofornian

Almost Mormon like isn’t it..


638 posted on 11/09/2010 4:58:29 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: bigheadfred

Note to self:

Don’t read these threads. You know how sad they make you.


639 posted on 11/09/2010 5:05:00 PM PST by bigheadfred (wogga la hooga)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Prayer bump for Graybeard’s wife ... hope that’s not to verbose.


640 posted on 11/09/2010 5:21:14 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: ejonesie22
Almost Mormon like isn’t it..

No.

641 posted on 11/09/2010 5:34:37 PM PST by Logophile
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To: MHGinTN
It would be an interesting study--...

Indeed!

Many WRONG ideas fill 'christians' heads as to how they are saved as well; and they've been in 'church' for YEARS!

642 posted on 11/09/2010 6:24:23 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Normandy
Moroni Chapter 8:25
And the first fruits of repentance is baptism; and baptism cometh by faith unto the fulfilling the commandments; and the fulfilling the commandments bringeth remission of sins;

Sure that's not from HERESY Chapter 3?

643 posted on 11/09/2010 6:27:40 PM PST by Elsie
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To: greyfoxx39

Keep Looking Up!


644 posted on 11/09/2010 6:28:46 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Normandy
I’m not sure what you mean by “faithing” — I haven’t heard that word before.

I noticed it, too.

I think faith in would be correct.

645 posted on 11/09/2010 6:31:05 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

Jesus can still add His atonement to their great keeping of commandments, can’t he? /sarc


646 posted on 11/09/2010 6:31:23 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Logophile
 

Why? Are you in a position to decide what Mormons need to do?

 
It appears they all can come to a differing decision when the LEADERSHIP fails them...
 
You have to judge for yourselves....



 
 
 
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 




President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.







 

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place
if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.
(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)
 
 
 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.
 
(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
 

 
 
 
 
What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???
 
compared to...
 
 
 
 
Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 
 
or compared to...
 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.
 


 
So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!
 
Well; it DID last about 47 years!
 



 
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

 

647 posted on 11/09/2010 6:34:48 PM PST by Elsie
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To: SZonian

Ya left out the WOODCHUCKS!


648 posted on 11/09/2010 6:36:27 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Logophile
Aw now don't be shy, be proud and play to your strengths no matter what they are.

Sometimes the obfuscation and smoke and mirrors even work in today's world despite the truth being so prevalent o the net and such. While numbers are down the magic act is still bringing in a few recruits.

649 posted on 11/09/2010 6:37:00 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: SZonian
Since it appears there are some who aren’t into the current terms being bandied about. ;^)

You can probably recognize them when they're out and about.

650 posted on 11/09/2010 6:38:13 PM PST by Elsie
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