Skip to comments.LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible
Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
You missed an early FI fav
Hosing the pigs...
Sometimes when you formalize something, you distinguish informal commitments already established.
Example: Canonization of the Bible: Yes, this was a formal commitment; but it was based upon what was already comprehensively informally recognized within the Church.
'Twas more a "confirmation" than a "new decision" from scratch.
It's in that spirit I offer these up. I'm not really drawing up any truth commitment that is NOT already loosely or informally held by Mormons -- both those who have given the rough content within posts #599 and #602 some past or present conscious consideration...and those for whom it's been just underneath the surface.
(By "commitment" I mean a commitment to contradictory truth claims...to take one side or the other).
I'm merely "formalizing" what Mormons already loosely hold...These oaths were simply meant to draw a relief-like "word map" -- as does a 3-dimensional map does of mountains and hills and valleys.
It's not the minute details of what I wrote in posts #599 & #602 that's pertinent...I mean, Mormons can choose to "formalize" what I wrote in any way they want to...however...Logo, please answer me this:
Don't you think who gets to be with Heavenly Father in heaven forever is the very heart of the gospel? (It certainly is the Biblical Christian gospel.)
I'm very interested in your opinion on that Q from a Mormon perspective: Don't you think this same Q also either is -- or needs to be -- at the very heart of the Mormon gospel as well?
So when you ask "why" in relation to me...well, who cares about me? What's important is the truth represented there. Which version of that "truth" will John or Jane Mormon commit to? That's what's at stake.
And why is that?
Because truth beckons us to either...
...commit to it by formally and publicly embracing it...
...or run away from it...
...it doesn't leave the luxury of a "neutral middle ground" option.
I can change it to or add "hosing the pigs" but would like the entire quote if you have it.
I would like to keep it in "context" to avoid being accused of something else not already on the list. (Not that it really matters, the list is truncated already and I could use some more recent examples.)
Aaaaah, the classics . . . .
I know you knew I knew.
It was primarily for the edification of any who don't know and don't know that they don't know.
I know this too. You are my brother, (or sister- pretty sure it's brother though) in the Lord Jesus.
A complete aside:
My wife had back surgery Friday and is still in the hospital, I hope and pray she gets to come home tomorrow and ask for all my brother and sisters prayers for her.
We take the Adam-God phenomenom doctrine and slide it over to that little trash can, and thats that!
Well...since I’m relatively new [when compared to you “original” FI’s] to this, I will need edification on “the classics”.
Since it appears there are some who aren’t into the current terms being bandied about. ;^)
I knew that you knew that I knew....ha!
Yeah....I'm a bro. And I appreciate you...
Sorry to hear about your wife....I hope she recovers quickly, and comes home.
I wish I lived near...so to help.
Better than getting sniped, swiped, sucked under...and accused of murder and arson.
That is God instruction to each of us. You cannot change other people's attitude. Only God can do that. Heck, you can't even change your own without God's help. If someone wants to nitpick on you, then you should just accept it and
2) pray that God isn't giving you this problem as chastisement because of your foolishness.
Oh my, dates escape me, at least 2-3 years ago, the others could probably fill the gaps better. It was a time when the imams kinda jelled together against the rampant mormon prosletization and domination of the forum. Faced with this opposition the mormons decided that they would flood (ie hose) the forum with 'pro-mormon' threads in an attempt to overwhelm us 'pigs' with too much to respond to. It was a real donnybrook of a few months. The mormon comments towards us were less than charitable IIRC.
LOL you have a point there. . .
Prayer tree activated...I hope and pray things go well.
prayer bump for graybeard
Almost Mormon like isn’t it..
Note to self:
Don’t read these threads. You know how sad they make you.
Prayer bump for Graybeard’s wife ... hope that’s not to verbose.