Posted on 11/14/2010 8:22:01 AM PST by Colofornian
In 1841 Joseph Smith declared that the Book of Mormon was "the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than by any other book" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 194).
In light of such a fantastic claim, it behooves an individual to take a serious look at the precepts found in the Book of Mormon. Take a few moments and test your knowledge of what Joseph Smith also called the "most correct book of earth."
1._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that Elohim (God the Father in Mormonism) was once a mortal man and that he was not always God?
2._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that God has a body of flesh and bones?
3._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that God is married in heaven?
4._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that men can become Gods?
5._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that temple participation is necessary to become exalted?
6._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach Jesus and Lucifer are brothers?
7._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach the blood of Christ does not cleanse certain sins?
8._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that a person can lose his salvation if he is not baptized on behalf of dead relatives?
9._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say there is more than one God?
10._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say males must hold either the Aaronic or Melchizedek Priesthood?
11._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say you can't drink coffee or tea?
12._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that there are "three degrees of glory"?
13._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that the Holy Ghost is a son of God just as Jesus is a son of God?
14. ______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that God allowed the Nephites to practice polygamy?
15._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that if a man wishes to be saved he must have a woman by his side?
16._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that faithful members must wear sacred undergarments that have the power to protect them?
17._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that official church doctrine must be voted on by the general membership?
18._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that the Black race (seed of Cain) survived the flood because the devil needed a representation on earth?
19._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that God is the offspring of another God who, in turn, is the offspring of still another God, etc.?
20._______ Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that the highest level within the celestial kingdom is the "Church of the Firstborn"?
Answers
1. God a mortal man - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never says God was once a mortal. In fact, it teaches that God was always God. Take for instance Moroni 8:18. It says God is "unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity." Joseph Smith, however, taught, "We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and take away the veil so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345).
2. God has a body of flesh - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never says God has a body of flesh and bones. On more than one occasion it clearly teaches that God is a God of spirit (see Alma 18:2-5, 24-28; Alma 22:9-11).
3. God is married - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never teaches God is married.
4. Men becoming Gods - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never says men can become Gods.
5. Temple participation - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never mentions mankind must participate in temple ordinances in order to become exalted.
6. Jesus and Lucifer brothers - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never teaches Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
7. Cleansing power of Christ's blood - If you said it doesn't, you're right. Never does the Book of Mormon hint that there are sins beyond the cleansing power of Christ's blood. However, second LDS Prophet Brigham Young taught, "There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it; and the judgments of the Almighty will come, sooner or later, and every man and woman will have to atone for breaking their covenants (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.385). Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie wrote, "But under certain circumstances there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ does not operate, and the law of God is that men must have their own blood shed to atone for their sins" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 92).
8. Baptism for the dead - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never teaches baptism for the dead is a necessary ordinance. In fact, the Book of Mormon teaches if a person dies in his sins, the devil has sealed him his and this is the final state of the wicked (see Alma 34:34,35). However, 10th LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith stated, "If we wilfully neglect the salvation of our dead, then also we shall stand rejected of the Lord, because we have neglected our dead; and just so sure their blood will be required at our hands ...we cannot be saved without them" (Doctrines of Salvation 2:145,149).
9. Plurality of Gods - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never teaches there is a plurality of Gods. In fact it strongly teaches there is only one true God (see Alma 11:26-29).
10. Priesthood - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never mentions either the Aaronic or Melchizedek priesthood.
11. Can't drink coffee or tea - If you said it doesn't, you're right. This is taken from Doctrine and Covenants 89. Still, this health law never mentions coffee or tea specifically, only "hot drinks." Mormon General authority George Q. Cannon included soup in this prohibition when he said, "We must not permit them to drink liquor or hot drinks, or hot soups or to use tobacco or other articles that are injurious" (Journal of Discourses 12:223).
12. Three degrees of glory - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The celestial, terrestrial and telestial kingdoms are never mentioned in the Book of Mormon.
13. Holy Ghost is a son of God - If you said it doesn't, you're right. Only Jesus and those who embrace Christ as their Savior are given that title in the Book of Mormon. Under the heading of "Holy Ghost," The Encyclopedia of Mormonism states, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that the Holy Ghost is a spirit man, a spirit son of God the Father."
14. God's approval of Nephite polygamy - If you said it doesn't, you're right. Jacob 2:27 makes it clear that the Nephites were to only have one wife and no concubines.
15. Must have a woman to be saved - If you said it doesn't, you're right. However, Brigham Young taught, "No man can be perfect without the woman, so no woman can be perfect without a man to lead her. I tell you the truth as it is in the bosom of eternity. If he wishes to be saved, he cannot be saved without a woman by his side" (as quoted on page 245 of The Miracle of Forgiveness).
16. Protective Garments - If you said it doesn't, you're right. The Book of Mormon never mentions "garments of the Holy Priesthood" yet temple Mormons are told that if they do not defile them, the garment will "be a shield and a protection" to them against the power of the destroyer.
17. Doctrine to be voted on - If you said it doesn't, you're right. Never were the words of the Book of Mormon prophets sustained by the believers in the Book of Mormon in order to be considered official teaching.
18. Seed of Cain - If you said it doesn't, you're right. However, third LDS Prophet John Taylor said, "And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God" (Journal of Discourses 22:304).
19. God having a father and grandfather - If you said it doesn't, you're right. However, Joseph Smith claimed, "If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg.373).
20. Church of the Firstborn - If you said it doesn't, you're right. Such an expression is never used in the Book of Mormon.
How did you do?
That's called bait switching.
Somebody might think, "Oh, the Bible has 1 degrees of glory and 1 hell and the BoM 3 degrees of glory & a rarely occupied hell..." but it doesn't. Smith took an off-base reference from Paul to the Corinthians and expanded it from 1 to 3...but the BoM only knows heaven and hell: Ether 4:18; Hel. 14:18-19; Alma 3:26; 40:26; 41:4; 3 Nephi 27:11,17; 2 Nephi 28:21-22; Mormon 9:23.
Mosiah 16:11 and 1 Nephi 15:35 clearly says there's only 2 destinations after death...and Alma 34:32-35 adds no 2nd chance.
And, if the BoM was meant to clarify "plain and precious things" supposedly removed from the Bible...if the Bible wasn't the fulness and yet if the BoM was supposed to contain that "fulness of the everlasting gospel" -- as Doctrine & Covenants claims (20:8-9; 27:5)...and that "the fulness of the gospel HAS BEEN sent forth" (D&C 35:12,17)...then we should be able to open up this "lens" of supposed "Scripture" and find those clarifying "gospel" things, right?
Yet, when I open up my Book of Mormon, I find that the Book of Mormon tells me precisely that God IS NOT a glorified man (Mormon 9:9-11; Moroni 7:22; 8:18; 1 Nephi 10:18). It also agrees with the Bible that God is Spirit (Alma 18:26-28; 22:10; 31:15; Mosiah 13:34; 15:1-5).
The BoM also doesn't teach that there are many gods. Only one -- and that God is a tri-Being (2 Nephi 31:21; 3 Nephi 11:27,36; alma 11:26-29,44; Mormon 7:7; Ether 3:14-20)
Does the BoM show me how to become a god or goddess? (No, nowhere, not a single verse). And if you believe the testimony of the D&C about the BoM -- that it's the "fulness" of the everlasting gospel -- then you MUST believe that this idea about becoming a god or goddess is not part of the original gospel (Christian or Mormon).
Does the BoM "enlighten" us about baptism for the dead or any temple rite or work? (No) Then what "lens" does it offer us? What about physical temples at all? (No)
So, it doesn't really offer us "additional" views about God or "the Mormon gods"...
...it doesn't tell us anything about the Aaronic priesthood, let alone anything "new"...
...it doesn't tell us anything about baptism for the dead, let alone anything "new" about it...
...it doesn't tell us how to become a god, let alone anything "new" about it...
...it doesn't tell us how to eternally progress unto godhood, let alone anything "new" about it...
...it doesn't tell us anything about Heavenly Father being once a man, let alone anything "new" about that...
...it doesn't tell us about 3 degrees of glory, let alone anything "new" about that...
...it doesn't tell us about the "Word of Wisdom," let alone anything "new" about such "wisdom"...
...it doesn't tell us about "celestial marriage" and how that's requirement if you want to be a goddess, let alone anything "new" about such a strange idea...
...it doesn't tell us about the supposed import of geneology and that kind of research as "saviors of the dead," let alone anything "new" offered up on the subject...
...it doesn't tell us anything significant about "restoration" -- 'cause apparently all the folks mentioned in there either died without passing on their faith or were parents of apostates!!!
...it doesn't tell us about the authority vested in a "Quorum of 12" as some Lds leaders highlight -- 'cause 3 Nephi 12:1 says these 12 more came on board in "A.D. 34" -- and guess what? Eleven already had an apostle-disciple "job description" in Israel and there-abouts!
The ‘list’ also shows why Joseph Smith is not a prophet called by God, because God is not the author of confusion, and the subsequent confused garble of Mormon doctrine spewed by the peepstone sexual predator of married women proves Smith was not God’s ‘handyman’. And the confusion sown by subsequent ‘living prophets’ of mormonism proves they weren’t God’s chosen handymen either! [Do I mean that as ‘Smith was not one of God’s hands’, or that ‘Smith was not someone being used by God to bring special truth to light in another testiment of’ ... etc. etc, or as Elsie has shown Smith would declare, ‘and so on and so forth’?]
Why is it that we have one God and countless religions?
Because arrogant mortal men cannot resist defining the nature of God and preaching their own righteousness.
Looks like a good thread for those checking out the actual and otherwise of Mormonism.
Years ago (60s/70s) the metaphysical bookstores were always well stocked with writings of a Mormon lady (or former Mormon)on various related topics; I believe she also lectured around Utah, California and surrounding states. I think I would recognize her name if someone here came up with it.
Seems to me some writers may have adopted their own ideas into their own teachings, and these are now taken to be pure Mormonism...maybe
When we “define” God, do we not offend God?
Just another cult like Islam started by a pervert that wanted his perverted Earthly ways and found feeble minded suckers to follow him because the rules of his cult gave them license to go against the Bible and act against the will of God. Nothing more; a new cult just like the last cult.
I think it's the same answer as why we have one currency in our country and countless counterfeiters.
Ah so, the lady’s name was Annalee Skarin—the recollection finally made its way into me old mind-housing-group!
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. (Articles of Faith, 9)
Sorry, can’t pass the test.
sshhhh you’ll mess up their Mormon-bashing party!
Soory, logo, your ‘prophets’ for continuing revelation have spittled forth contradictions and confusion ... and you know it but must not oppose the liars who’ve lead your religion. But please, refrain from passint he lies on in public with such rot as claiming ‘continuing revelation from the god of mormonism who cannot get a story straight to save your souls.
Why is it that we have one God and countless religions?
I think it’s the same answer as why we have one currency in our country and countless counterfeiters.
****
good answer
Matt 7
13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Well, Logo...what did you think then of this portion of my post #1:
...yet if the BoM was supposed to contain that "fulness of the everlasting gospel" -- as Doctrine & Covenants claims (20:8-9; 27:5)...and that "the fulness of the gospel HAS BEEN sent forth" (D&C 35:12,17)...then we should be able to open up this "lens" of supposed "Scripture" and find those clarifying "gospel" things, right?
IOW...what you're conceding, then (it sounds like to me) that since Smith claimed that the BoM is the "fulness of the everlasting gospel"...
...that NONE of these 20 things are "gospel relevant" as to its "fulness," eh?
I took a quick gander @ the list...seems to me that 1,4,5,7,9,12, 15 and probably 8 would be "relevant" to the Mormon "gospel," would they not?
* #1 is essentially the Mormon "gospel" teaching of eternal progression...But now you're telling me that's just secondary-level teaching and is not "gospel"?
* #4 is both eternal progression and exaltation. You mean to tell me that "exaltation" is a second-tier teaching? Not part of the Mormon "gospel?"
* #5 & #15 both relate to the prescribed Mormon way of how you earn godhood...boy, so far you're telling us that anything having to do with becoming a god doesn't have anything remotely to do with even the Mormon "true" gospel...let alone the Biblical/BoM one? Really?
* Mormons make themselves a real laughing stock when they try to tell us that heaven and its supposed "degrees" of heaven aren't relevant to the "gospel" (#12)
* Same with #7 as to which sins are cleansed -- and which ones aren't -- by Christ's blood
* And by the time we look @ #9, we're howling! Why? Well, Joseph Smith said the "first principle of the gospel was to know the character of god." If that's true with one god, isn't it true with three gods? Four gods? (Mom-god) Five gods? (Jesus' grandpa-god) More? So NOW you're claiming it's NO PRINCIPLE AT ALL to know the true character of your gods except heavenly father? Really? How do you go from a key first principle to NO principle depending upon which god you're talking about?
good answer [restornu]
Resty, I was specific about this country...and what Christian faith was the originally one embraced in this country? Historic Christianity or Mormonism?
Obviously, historic Christianity starting with the pilgrims...among a few others coming through at earlier parts of history. IOW, the "original" faith currency was Christianity! Mormonism was the johnny-come-lately on the scene.
How...do we know that Mormons are schizophrenic in how they treat the founders of our country?
#1 Lots of Mormons like to speak highly of our founding fathers (some Glenn Beck, speak a mixed message on our Christian founders)
#2 Also, on the one Mormons tout the supposed Christian apostasy of our founders and ALL Americans in the late 18th century and early 19th century....
...yet most of the Mormons I know or talk with don't seemingly want to wrestle with these verses:
(a) Ephesians 3:21, where the apostle Paul prophesied God would receive glory "in the church" throughout all ages forever and ever. Well. gee. Which is it? Corrupt, creedally abominable apostates or God-glorifiers? Hmmm....
(c) Joseph Smith prophesied Sept. 22-23, 1832: the “priesthood CONTINUETH IN THE CHURCH OF GOD in ALL GENERATIONS, and is WITHOUT BEGINNING OF DAYS OR END OF YEARS. And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, THROUGHOUT ALL GENERATIONS, WHICH PRIESTHOOD ALSO CONTINUETH FOREVER WITH THE PRIESTHOOD which is after the holiest order of God.” (D&C 84:17-18)
(Ya wanna explain for all of us, Resty, how a priesthood received by Mormon leaders continued IN THE CHURCH OF GOD in all generations if 1700 years of those "generations" were supposedly in "apostasy?" How could that happen "without...end of years?" Smith TWICE stressed throughout ALL generations!)
Now, match that with also prophesying in 1832 to 1832 Mormons that this “priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers” (D&C 86:8) — and since almost all of the “fathers” of these 1832 Mormons were either Christian or pagan or deceased or whatever — but certainly were NOT Mormons...
...Then tell, us dear Mormons: On what grounds do you exclude the Christian Church from your dear exclusive priesthood club?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Do you exclude us from being the true church (according to D&C 1:30)?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Do you call us “apostates” who triggered a needy “restoration” of the gospel and the true Church?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Did you claim that the “light of the gospel leading to salvation” was lost for a long period of time on earth?
By labeling us all as such, you openly consign the apostle Paul and Joseph Smith to the garbage bin of false prophets!
Therefore, either Mormons are internally lying/covering up that they believe Smith is a false prophet, or more likely, they believe Smith was telling the truth in D&C 84:17-18; 86:8...which means they believe that the priesthood was rec'd via "the lineage of their fathers" (86:8) and this was a continuous priesthood passed down "throughout all generations" (84:17-18).
But if this was passed down to them by a faulty generational apostate priesthood, how are they legit? If they believe these D&C passages, therefore, then they are forced to conclude the Christian church was NOT "apostate" after all pre 1830 -- and their claims that we are apostates as the Christian church is a
I think you have misunderstood the meaning of the word gospel.
I don't think so, Logo. (Unlike Mormons who tend not to check out historic definitions of biblical concepts, but simply take their leaders at face value, I double-checked Lds.org):
The gospel is our Heavenly Father's plan of happiness. The central doctrine of the gospel is the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, "The first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Articles of Faith 1:4).
Lds.org glossary definition of 'gospel'
Now. Let's again "overlay" some of those non-existent Book of Mormon teachings to see if it fits this definition:
Lds.org says the Mormon gospel focuses on a "plan of happiness" -- what Lds writings have frequently called the "eternal plan of salvation." Certainly the "happiest" aspects Mormon writings focus in on is families living eternally forever with God.
(a) #5 & #15 supposedly detail (among other ways) how you do that. Subtract #5 and/or #15 from a Mormon's life -- say a never-married Mormon...or a non-temple Mormon...and they won't directly participate in the "happiest" aspect of heaven -- living eternally with Heavenly Father in the celestial kingdom.
(b) And do you also mean to imply that #4 -- exaltation -- has nothing to do with the Mormon "gospel?" Are you now saying that exaltation has NOTHING to do with the Mormon eternal plan of salvation that leads to supposed "happiness?"
(c) Lds.org also says: The central doctrine of the gospel is the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Are you now telling us that the non-Book of Mormon teaching of "Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach the blood of Christ does not cleanse certain sins?" has NO relevance to Christ's atonement? Really?
You remind me of the Scribes & Pharisees and all their dot and tittle!
look where it got them....
The phrase is ‘jot and tittle’ and it is Mormonism with ‘after all that you can do to earn God’s Grace that is playing the righteous pharisaic game, Resty. Don’t you recall what your religion has taught you, that ONLY Mormons have the righteousness and therefore can be baptized for those who die without salvation so they can be saved in the afterlife? And that’s just one of the rot doctrines of your man-made religious legal system!
Oh really?
So what is the ‘gospel’ according to mormonism. Like all of their doctrines, nailing it to the wall is like that of jello. > Here is what joseph smith said as the “first principle” of the gospel - It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did;. . . .
Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you,--namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one,--from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings and to sit in glory
The gospel of mormonism was also clarified by Brigham Young -
"Gospel of the Son of God that has been revealed is a plan or system of laws and ordinances, by strict obedience to which the people who inhabit this earth are assured that they may return again into the presence of the Father and the Son" (JD, 13:233)
So according to young, this gospel also is a system of rules, laws and ordinances requiring strick compliance.
Looks like Colofornian has it pretty well nailed.
Logo is just sailing down denial with no thought to credulity.
Hey FR antis LDS the game is up I found the damn the naysayers memo...
Christians who follow the Bible in its proclamation of the Gospel, according to the way we are told in those Scriptures, are duty bound to tell all the other false religions and those perpetrating false doctrines (those “doctrines of demons”) that they are pushing cult teachings and that those teachings will lead straight to hell and to eternal torment in the lake of fire.
Christianity is “exclusive” in its teachings and all other religions are “false” and deserve to be called false and heretical. They deserve to be bashed out of existence for teaching doctrines that the Bible calls “doctrines of demons” which will lead to death and eternal separation from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
I agree with your designation of the truth of the gospel. Regardless, we are told to “speak the truth in love”, so I still think the guidelines in the OP about posting comments are important to abide by. I cannot be responsible for how someone receives the message but I CAN be sure of my motives for posting and the tone in which I speak/write.
Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
You are preaching darkness in love.
You don’t like agitators? Maybe some are not agitators, but are witnesses of Jesus Christ, who disapproved of those that add to the Word.
I read Gal. 5:12.
If we are picking out of context verses to express an opinion, here’s one for you: Acts 13:10.
I’m sure you are just swell, but I’ve met really nice folks that were atheists. Obey Acts 2:38, and you’ll be literally beside yourself with joy. Don’t wait, obey and celebrate!
Resty, do you even KNOW the Bible verses from which you try to quote & mangle?????????????
ALL: FR, lurkers...look at what this long-time Mormon FReeper mangler of the Word does here: She takes a positive rendering of jot & tittle in Matthew 5...and tries to make it a negative (note..."jot and tittle" comes from Jesus' reference below about the smallest letter/stroke of a pen in Hebrew):
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore ANYONE who sets aside ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDS AND TEACHES OTHERS ACCORDINGLY will be called LEAST in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will CERTAINLY NOT enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:18-20)
Restornu, here this is about the ONLY time Jesus is "positive" about the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. Why? Because outwardly the Pharisees stressed God's commandments. And yet with your negative attitude, you want to turn Jesus' words here into a negative.
ELSEWHERE Jesus was heartily negative about the Pharisees? Why? Primarily because of their inward hypocrisy...which he compared to being like unwashed cups & graveyards.
Jesus knew their inward nature? (Do you pretend to know mine?) Here in post #27, you said:
I cannot be responsible for how someone receives the message but I CAN be sure of my motives for posting and the tone in which I speak/write.
Do you pretend to know my inward motives? (Doesn't the Bible say ONLY God knows us on the inside -- 1 Sam. 16:7?)
Excuse me this was address about the LDS on such a lovely thread until it came to the LDS than all bets off!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2531220/posts?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2531220/replies?c=21
Do you love to hear yourself pontificate?
Acts 2:38,
nice verse but many here are not to keen on baptism they are more like the OSAS all you have too do is believe is their motto!
Mormons who follow the Book of Mormon and Doctrines & Covenants
in its proclamation of the prophecies of Joseph Smith, etc.,
according to the way we are told in those alleged
Scriptures, are duty bound to tell all the other apostate Christian sects and those perpetrating false creeds
(those "abominations" of the devil)
that they are pushing pagan & Babylonian
teachings and that those teachings will lead straight to damnation & outer darkness
and to spirit prison torment. Mormonism
is "exclusive" in its teachings and all other churches
are "false" and deserve to be called false and heretical as well as apostate, dead and not worth joining.
They deserve to be bashed by Joseph Smith's scorched-earth "first vision"
for teaching creeds
that the Book of Mormon & D&C
calls "abominations of the whore of Babylon"
which will lead to death and eternal separation from the church of the Lamb -- also called the Church of the Firstborn -- aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints...aka the Mormons.
Wanna fill us in on the big difference re: how Mormonism has been practicing the above for 180 years...vs. some FReeper activity about 175 years AFTER Mormonism started treating Christianity the way it has?
Lds.org glossary partial definition of gospel (you know, the place Paragon Defender always tells us to go for to search for camels who are hidden in the needles of haystacks):
The central doctrine of the gospel is the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
From the article: NEVER does the Book of Mormon hint that there are sins beyond the cleansing power of Christ's blood.
Q. Doesn't the "atonement," the supposed "central doctrine of the" Mormon "gospel" have anything to do with how extensive or which sins are cleansed by his blood?
And when Brigham Young taught that certain sins would not be under "The blood of Christ" -- that His blood "will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it; and the judgments of the Almighty will come, sooner or later, and every man and woman will have to atone for breaking their covenants" ... (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.385). pray tell...why is that widely known as "blood atonement"???
Here...
...the Book of Mormon knowns of no limiting power as to which sins the atonement would cleanse....
...& Brigham taught there was such a limit, and that self-blood trumps Jesus' blood on some sins...
...But it's all related to various teachings of the atonement...
...An atonement which Lds.org says is the "central doctrine of the gospel"...
...And then you accuse me of misfiring on my definition of the Mormon "gospel"...
...Can you say...
...Disconnect???...
...Lack of intellectual integrity OR horrific apologetics' application & faulty accusation on your part...?
And then we're also supposed to do the mental gymnastics you've done and conclude that Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie's quote from the article is also somehow "irrelevant" to the Mormon doctrine of the "atonement?" (Yes? No?)
McConkie: "But under certain circumstances there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ> does not operate, and the law of God is that men must have their own blood shed to ATONE for their sins" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 92).
So you're SERIOUSLY telling us that McConkie's use of the word "atone" here has NOTHING to do with the Lds usage of "atonement," which in turn is the central doctrine of the Mormon gospel per Lds.org?
All so that you can keep intact Smith's repeated canonized claim that the Book of Mormon contains the "fulness" of the everlasting gospel?
Tell you what? Show some intellectual integrity. Have you considered your choices here...of either telling us...
...you concede the Book of Mormon has indeed failed to convey the "fulness" of the everlasting "gospel," Mormon-style, as it pertains to a full teaching on the atonement.
...Or...you can just label before all of us that Brigham Young and Bruce McConkie were false "prophets" on at least the teaching of the atonement.
Who lied in a false "prophet" way? Joseph Smith in the D&C? Or Brigham Young & Bruce McConkie in other venues?
(Your third choice...accusing me of misdialing the number for defining the Mormon "gospel" misfired and failed to hit the mark...unless you want to accuse Paragon Defender's fave link of flunking in its definition of the Mormon "gospel")
shhhhhh!
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.
They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.
They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.
Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.
You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.
Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.
After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.
The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.
Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:
http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/
Now you will likely notice the "you never address our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.
Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you?
Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.
I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.
The ACTUAL writings from MORMON 'prophets' and teachers and leaders are quite sufficient to show what MORMONism is, by showing what HAS been written and what HAS been taught and what HAS been hidden.
Annalee Skarin (July 7, 1899 – January 17, 1988), the granddaughter of "Wild Bill" Hickman, was a popular New Age/Metaphysical author, originally raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). She gained fame by claiming to believe in the possibility of attaining immortality through the ardent pursuit of Christian principles, which she summarized as gratitude, praise and love.
In Mormonism, it is believed that some people such as Enoch underwent what Mormons call translation (and which is called in other religions ascension), i.e., they were taken up directly into Heaven without having to "taste of death". Mormons believe that during the Millennium, everyone will translate rather than having to die physically. Annalee Skarin claimed to have invented a meditation technique by which anyone could translate themselves directly into Heaven.
(From WIKI)
Yup!
We even believe stuff that goes AGAINST the Bible.
--MormonDude(I don't know WHY we stopped practicing POLYGAMY...)
Hi, Brother!
Post yer list, so folks can SEE how HATEFUL and BIGOTED these ANTIs are!
--MormonDupe(I don't know WHY JR allows them to post on FR.)
Soory, logo, your ‘prophets’ for continuing revelation have spittled forth contradictions and confusion ...
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
good answer
 |
Joseph Smith
One would be REALLY hard pressed to find ANYTHING in the BoM that is DOCTRINE of MORMONism!
You gotta look in the OTHER 'scripture' of MORMONism. (The stuff they DON'T ask you to 'pray about'.)
Tell us the MORMON meaning of the word.
ThankYa, Elsie!
Much appreciated...
I'm remkinded that MORMONs have NO idea what Josepoh Smith 'learned' what he claimed was 'not true' about PRESBYTERIANism.
Didn't you used to BE one, Restornu?
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy. |
--MormonDube(You da MAN!)
I am pleased to offer my services for the Betterment of Mankind.
Please feel free to ask me ANYTHING and I'll sincerely post my link list again.
Remember...
I am normal too; and I am a MORMON!
Sincerely,
PD
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