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Whoopi, Joy, and Barbara do theology
WORLD ^ | 11/22/10 | Janie B. Cheaney

Posted on 11/22/2010 11:55:39 AM PST by Zender500

The View may not be a model of clear thinking but it probably offers a pretty good view of current cultural thinking—what might better be called “feelthink.” A few days ago, Joel Osteen was on the show to help kick off the Christmas season, but Barbara Walters immediately ambushed him with a question about homosexuality. Not for the first time, the ladies began showing off their expertise in Christian ethics. Walters: What about this pastor in Georgia who recently came out as gay? Joy Behar: It’s terrible that people use the Bible to condemn gays because it leads to bullying. And these people didn’t choose the way they are. Whoopi Goldberg: Doesn’t God say, “Nobody can judge you but me”? What business do we have judging another person’s lifestyle?

Any truck could drive through the gaping holes in their logic. To Walters: Do the actions of one pastor disprove all of Scripture and church history? To Behar: Are you saying that homosexuals should be pitied, then, because they can’t help it? Would their behavior be worse if it were a choice? To Goldberg: In the same Scripture that says, “don’t judge” you’ll find an awful lot of judgments. If you just ignore the ones you don’t like, it sounds like you might be judging God—is that a spot you want to be in? Instead of jumping into the truck cab and turning the ignition, Pastor Joel tiptoed around the issue, insisting that his church welcomes everybody: “But there’s the Scripture that we can’t necessarily change.” For him that’s a strong statement, but he’d been put in an impossible situation.

How about something like this: “You know, Barbara, I was invited on the show to talk about Christmas, and believe it or not, this ties in. The Bible clearly says that homosexuals are sinners—no, wait a minute, let me finish. It also says, just as clearly, that I am a sinner and so are you. But Jesus came in order to take our sins upon himself and let God judge them by judging Him. If we accept God’s judgment on our character and behavior, and believe that Jesus actually did what He said He would do, then we’ll be forgiven. That’s what Christmas is all about.”

No unbeliever is going to be persuaded by logical argument against any sin. What he needs is to be changed, and the gospel is the change agent. High-profile pastors who appear on talk shows should consider how the Apostle Paul could turn a riot, a philosophical forum, or a prison stay into a gospel sermon. In a post-Christian age, that would be a knack worth learning.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: abcdisneynews; homosexualagenda; lavendermafia; osteen; peckingparty; pravdamedia

1 posted on 11/22/2010 11:55:42 AM PST by Zender500
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To: wagglebee

2 posted on 11/22/2010 11:56:57 AM PST by Zender500
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To: Zender500

They couldn’t find a CAIR representative to harass about homosexuality?


3 posted on 11/22/2010 11:58:52 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: Zender500

Come on now. Some of us don’t have hot pokers sitting by the key board. Our eyes are at your mercy.


4 posted on 11/22/2010 11:59:59 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Zender500

Cripes, Z....I just had lunch!


5 posted on 11/22/2010 12:00:32 PM PST by JimVT (Oh, the days of the Kerry dancing, Oh, the ring of the piper's tune)
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To: Zender500

Note that rarely do they take a picture with all three bags in them at the same time. It always cracks the camera lens. You should see the number of lenses they use up during just one show if they accidentally get all three of them in a close-up.


6 posted on 11/22/2010 12:03:23 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Zender500

Why do they want to talk about that particular sin anyway? There are plenty to choose from. They seem obsessed with it. I think that’s what I would have asked them. I would have said, “Is there something you ladies need to be counseled about? I’d be glad to do so, but maybe you want to do that in private, not on national tv”.


7 posted on 11/22/2010 12:06:29 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: a fool in paradise
"They couldn’t find a CAIR representative to harass about homosexuality?"

...or about women's rights, or about pedophilia, or about ecumenical outreach and religious freedom, or....the list goes on and on. Instead, they ask a Christian minister on to speak about the upcoming holidays and ambush him with the homosexual agenda.

8 posted on 11/22/2010 12:32:33 PM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: Zender500

Just like larceny, I don’t have to judge homosexuality. God already did and said it was a sin.


9 posted on 11/22/2010 12:34:03 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Zender500

I want to hear again from Whoopi the difference between rape and rape-rape.


10 posted on 11/22/2010 12:35:17 PM PST by AU72
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To: Zender500
I don't know if the author intended this, but it sounds a little like he's taking a shot at Olsteen because Joel didn't say the right things. Maybe I'm reading too much in to it

In Joel's defense, I happened to watch this live (yes, I don't know what I was thinking) and it was a VERY hostile (and typical Manhattan) audience almost from the very beginning. And, Behar and Walters began attacking from literally the very first question. Did Olsteen do great? No. But, I think he was just trying to be respectful in an otherwise disrespectful environment.

11 posted on 11/22/2010 12:36:01 PM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand

Actually, Joel should have thrown the question right back in their face : How about it Whoopie ? Barbarba ? how about those Muslim African countries who are murdering, slaughtering, genocide, hundreds of thousands of innocent Christians ? what about that evil and sin ?


12 posted on 11/22/2010 12:43:50 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist
"Actually, Joel should have thrown the question right back in their face : "

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think he went on the show with the mindset to debate Christian v. Muslim theology. He seemed pretty taken-aback by the speed and ferociousness of their attack(s).

He made the mistake so many do - he took the liberal media at their word.

13 posted on 11/22/2010 12:47:53 PM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand
" He made the mistake so many do - he took the liberal media at their word. "

He made the mistake like many on our side do, that they even go on their God forsaken shows.
14 posted on 11/22/2010 12:57:34 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: OldDeckHand

Luke 12:11 & 12

11 “When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say;

12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

Hmmm.


15 posted on 11/22/2010 12:57:38 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: OldDeckHand
I don't know if the author intended this, but it sounds a little like he's taking a shot at Olsteen because Joel didn't say the right things. Maybe I'm reading too much in to it.

I think the author is using the weakness of Osteen's response to illustrate the principle of being prepared to respond to questions with the gospel, especially to hostile questions.

16 posted on 11/22/2010 1:09:00 PM PST by VRWCmember (Jesus called us to be Salt and Light, not Vinegar and Water.)
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To: huldah1776
I Peter 3:15-17

15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

hmmm

17 posted on 11/22/2010 1:15:34 PM PST by VRWCmember (Jesus called us to be Salt and Light, not Vinegar and Water.)
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To: OldDeckHand
I think the author's intent is summed up pretty nicely in his last paragraph:
High-profile pastors who appear on talk shows should consider how the Apostle Paul could turn a riot, a philosophical forum, or a prison stay into a gospel sermon. In a post-Christian age, that would be a knack worth learning.
Any pastor who decides to appear on a talk show should really study Paul's skill at bringing any situation or conversation back to the gospel.
18 posted on 11/22/2010 1:18:28 PM PST by VRWCmember (Jesus called us to be Salt and Light, not Vinegar and Water.)
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To: Zender500

The view is a left wing show. Elisabeth can’t really aruge much. If dumb Rosie had not been on and started feuding with everyone then this show would have quietly ended. When she left it got the left buzzing because Elisabeth was still on and she drew the dis respect of Rosie and the left. The left dislikes Elisabeth as much as Palin or Christine. Nobody cared the first few years about this clunker, before Elisabeth went on.


19 posted on 11/22/2010 1:24:02 PM PST by Mozilla
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To: Zender500
No unbeliever is going to be persuaded by logical argument against any sin. What he needs is to be changed, and the gospel is the change agent. High-profile pastors who appear on talk shows should consider how the Apostle Paul could turn a riot, a philosophical forum, or a prison stay into a gospel sermon. In a post-Christian age, that would be a knack worth learning.

Billiantly stated.

The assumption in this statement, however is that "high profile pastors who appear on talk shows" are more interested in spreading the Gospel and saving souls than in building their own kingdom and image. It is often difficult for the pastor himself, to see beyond the Very Reverend Doctor Joseph Lookatme Blowe, PhD, DD, LLD, leader of the 10,000 member congregation to remember the reason he became a pastor to begin with. Personal corruption comes not as a tsunami but through inexorable dripping as in Chinese water torture.

20 posted on 11/22/2010 1:38:31 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: American Constitutionalist
Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

American Christians mistakenly assume the goodwill of other citizens. American Christian leaders must prepare themselves for the potential of ideological battle at every public forum.

21 posted on 11/22/2010 1:45:03 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: Zender500

That’s the big problem I have with Osteen and Warren. They are in it for the money, plain and simple. A Christian Pastor, if for any reason was found in that same position, would have been a Christian Soldier and stood up for Christ. Instead, Osteen showed himself again to be lilly-livered and will be denied when his judgement comes.
This is not me speaking but the Truth that is within me.


22 posted on 11/22/2010 1:47:29 PM PST by vpintheak (Obama sez I'm an enemy and I will be punished. My Savior has overcome the world.)
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To: huldah1776
This scriptue has to do with the Christian about to be martyred and is called by secular authorities to defend his beliefs and actions before a legal assembly.
See Matthew Henry's Commentary online: http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/luke/12.html

In a forum where testifying to your faith is called for, I think the following is more applicable:
1 Peter 3:15- But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

23 posted on 11/22/2010 2:03:17 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: vpintheak
Your vitrol concerns me, dear brother. No one, neither a "Christian leader" nor their critic nor an outside observer does or says anything for one reason alone. There are always a multiplicity of motivations, known and unknown, in every human heart.

Personally, I am painfully aware and humbled by the fact that many, to me, obviously flawed messengers have nevertheless been used by the Lord to do greater things than I'll ever do.

The scripture, 1 Peter 3:15; instructs Christians to testify to the reason of the hope that lies within themself and to do so with gentleness and respect.

Even in disputes with Satan himself, it appears that judgement and vitrol are neither the behavior nor model recommended.

Jude 1:9
But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

With regard to messengers not in agreement with me and the "Truth that is within me" I try to remember the words of the Lord:
"for whoever is not against us is for us." Mark 9:40 (NIV)

Matthew Henry Commentary
http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?com=mhc&b=41&c=9

Many have been like the disciples, ready to silence men who have success in preaching to sinners repentance in Christ's name, because they follow not with them. Our Lord blamed the apostles, reminding them that he who wrought miracles in his name would not be likely to hurt his cause. If sinners are brought to repent, to believe in the Saviour, and to live sober, righteous, and godly lives, we then see that the Lord works by the preacher.

I think the two bigest surprises in eternity will be:
1- The self assured who are missing, and
2- Those who didn't believe like me who are there.

Peace be unto you.

24 posted on 11/22/2010 3:12:40 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: DWar

Thanks for your comment, sincerely. I have a question though, there are certain times in our lives where we have a chance to stand up for Jesus. I’m sure you’ve had those moments, as have I. Will He not deny us if we deny Him? I see being a Christian as more than a clean way of living as many wolves promote it to be.
I welcome you insight.


25 posted on 11/22/2010 3:40:54 PM PST by vpintheak (Obama sez I'm an enemy and I will be punished. My Savior has overcome the world.)
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To: Zender500

Okay, that’s “must pee” TV right there.


26 posted on 11/22/2010 3:51:05 PM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: vpintheak

My understanding is that as a true Christian, acts of disobedience, denial, etc. are perpetually covered by the blood of Jesus unless and until the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and we resist His leading towards repentance.

Too often Christians are concerned with debating points not totally necessary for salvation. Humans have this insatiable desire “to be right”. Christian humans, too. We argue with a very unChristian spirit against family who have just a little different take on things. Or who haven’t yet grown to a place in the Lord that we have. And by our insistence to get them to believe the “Truth” our attitude drives them away from needed fellowship or back into sin. That’s why Paul taught that eating meat that has been sacrificed to idols is OK because the idols are lifeless, meaningless objects and strong Christians are aware of that ... But when in the presence of a weaker brother abstain.

I think it is better to “Stand up for Jesus” against the sin nature within ourselves first and then against the secular humanists who are rapidly extinguishing faith, in America rather than against family members whom we judge to not be fully in harmony with the “Truth”. One of my personal challenges in this regard is the wealthy televangelist who wants the little old lady to send her Social Security check to him and that’s the message that is the predominant one of his “ministry”. But if Christ is also preached enough that the lady is saved and comforted, I’ll swallow my objections and trust the Lord to work through his ministry in spite of the messenger.
That preacher will be responsible to the Lord Himself, for the rest.

I have the feeling that most of the time my tendency towards “righteous anger” comes too easily and that gentleness and humility with too much dificulty.

For me Micha 6:8 is an important guide:
He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

Peace be with you.


27 posted on 11/22/2010 5:34:35 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: a fool in paradise; Chode

“They couldn’t find a CAIR representative to harass about homosexuality?”

If this forum suddenly announced that we were Mooselimbs and that we should start stoning gays, those three would have nothing to say!


28 posted on 11/23/2010 2:37:33 PM PST by Wile E Coyote Genius (IQ 206....more than all Democrats combined)
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