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Difficult Questions for Mormons
The Interactive Bible ^

Posted on 12/01/2010 6:28:46 PM PST by delacoert

  1. Why did the angel take Nephi Plates back to heaven? Do they not belong with man? Would not their existence prove once for all that Mormonism is truth? God allowed the Jews to carry the 10 commandments for several centuries in their original physical form, written by the finger of God Himself!
  2. "Will you, as a Mormon, please read the Bible cover to cover and ask God to reveal to you that it contains all of God's message to man and that parts are not lost or altered and that the Book of Mormon is false?"
  3. If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions?
  4. How can we be assured that the translation of the B of M into French or any other language is correct? Only the English translation is claimed to be inspired!
  5. How do you account for the stunning parallels in both content and order between the B of M and the View of the Hebrews, by Ethan Smith? Published in 1823 (7 years before the B of M) less than 100 miles from the Joseph Smith's parents home.
  6. Mormon Article of Faith #8: "We Believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." Why do you only add the phrase, "as far as it is translated correctly" to describe the Bible and not after the book of Mormon when in fact there are far more translating errors in the Book of Mormon than the Bible?
  7. If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? Examples are: 1 Nephi 11:21; 19:20; 20:1 and Alma 29:4. Compare these with the original Book of Mormon. (Gerald and Sandra Tanner have counted 3913 changes in the book of Mormon, excluding punctuation changes.)
  8. How did Joseph Smith carry home the golden plates of the Book of Mormon, and how did the witnesses lift them so easily? (They weighed about 230 lbs. Gold, with a density of 19.3 weighs 1204.7 lbs. per cubic foot. The plates were 7" x 8" by about 6". See Articles of Faith, by Talmage, page 262, 34th ed.)
  9. If Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God? (Doc. & Cov. 132:17,37)
  10. Why do Mormons emphasize part of the Word of Wisdom and ignore the part forbidding the eating of meat except in winter, cold or famine? (Doc. & Cov. 89:12,13).
  11. When Christ died, did darkness cover the land for three days or for three hours? (Luke 23:44 and 3 Nephi 8:19, 23).
  12. Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven? (The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264. See repreint in Mormonism --Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, page 4.)
  13. Joseph Smith prepared fourteen Articles of Faith. Why has the original No. 11 been omitted? (Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 2, three pages after page 160, among the photos.)
  14. Why did the Nauvoo House not stand forever and ever? (Doc. & Cov. 124:56-60).
  15. How can a man who is not a descendant of Aaron hold the Aaronic Priesthood? (Numbers 16:40; Heb. 7:13,14).
  16. Since Mormonism teaches that only God the Father had a physical body at the time Adam was created, why did God say, "Let us make man in OUR image"? Why didn't He say, "Let us make man in MY image?" (Gen. 1:26).
  17. If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50).
  18. How did Nephi with a few men on a new continent build a temple like Solomon's while Solomon needed 163,300 workmen and seven years to build his temple? (1 Kings 5:13-18 and 2 Nephi 5:15-17).
  19. Why was Joseph Smith still preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after he got his revelation in July 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy? (Doc. & Cov. 132; and History of the Church Vol. 6, page 46, or Teachings of the Prophet, page 324).
  20. God rejected the fig leaf aprons which Adam and Eve made (Gen. 3:21). Why do Mormons memorialize the fall by using fig leaf aprons in the secret temple ceremonies?
  21. How do you explain the fact that 2 Nephi 16:2 is copied from an older version of the KJV of the Bible in Isa 6:2? This is proven because this older KJV (the mistake is corrected in current versions) made a rare gramatical error by using the incorrect plural form of "seraphims" rather than "seraphim".


TOPICS: Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: inmam; inman; lds; mormon
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To: nando9

NooB, really? You just signed up, that makes you a New Bee.


51 posted on 12/02/2010 3:32:56 PM PST by svcw (If you put a crouton on a your sundae instead of a cherry, it counts as a salad.)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Atheists can come up with a thousand questions about the Bible and demand that you answer them one by one but who has time for all that nonsense?

Yep,an Christians stand up and provide answers to them. How 'bout standing up and answering just one of the list honestly and intelligently?

52 posted on 12/02/2010 3:33:40 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: nando9

“no dog in the fight” - now thats funny.
“no dog in the fight” - then why are you here?


53 posted on 12/02/2010 3:34:41 PM PST by svcw (If you put a crouton on a your sundae instead of a cherry, it counts as a salad.)
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To: Saundra Duffy

What part of the Bible do you love, as its not translated correctly?


54 posted on 12/02/2010 3:36:24 PM PST by svcw (If you put a crouton on a your sundae instead of a cherry, it counts as a salad.)
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To: Saundra Duffy

What part of the Bible do you love, as its not translated correctly?


55 posted on 12/02/2010 3:36:25 PM PST by svcw (If you put a crouton on a your sundae instead of a cherry, it counts as a salad.)
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To: McBuff; panzerkamphwageneinz; delacoert
Your Honor, Council is badgering the witness. . .

To some, even one question is "badgering."

Besides, when one of the 52,000 Mormon mishies comes to your door...you feel obligated to answer the doorbell or knock.

When someone posts an article on a Web site, who says you have to...
...Open it...?
...Even if you open it...
...Respond?

Christianity is proved by the life, not the lip. . .

Does that equate to silence? Or does the lip and the hands on a keyboard actually have a function? Did Jesus "error" when He "lipped off" to the legalists of His earthly era -- the Pharisees?

If we show more love we would be more persuasive for Christ.

Well, of course. Captain Obvious, eh? Who's going to argue with that?

Of course, the unspoken Q is: How do you define love?

When parents dealing with a rebellious teen into sex & substance abuse is sent away to a boarding school that is geared to addressed that, is that the "loving" thing to do? Perhaps. Perhaps not, depending in part upon the school.

My point is that "love" also includes "tough love." And sometimes...sometimes...we love people with the truth!

"Love...rejoices in the truth" (1 Cor. 13:6)

Sometimes I wish the mushy sentimental lovey types (& I'm not saying you're one -- 'cause I don't know you) would expand their understanding of "love."

56 posted on 12/02/2010 3:49:20 PM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Saundra Duffy

Did you ask God to reveal to you that it contains all of God’s message to man and that parts are not lost or altered and that the Book of Mormon is false?

57 posted on 12/02/2010 3:56:15 PM PST by delacoert
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To: dmz; Godzilla; nando9; MHGinTN
There is a ‘preaching to the choir and enjoying the acccolades from doing so’ that pervades these threads as well...

#1...if a church knew that everybody at a given service was saved by the Gospel being embraced, it wouldn't mean that it would stop preaching the Gospel. "Preaching to the choir," therefore is such a worn-out trite phrase that doesn't apply to the Christianity you disbelieve in. (The gospel is for believers and unbelievers alike.)

#2...as for "enjoying the accolades" -- that requires some level of knowledge that you know who's "enjoying" what -- and for someone who's into boasting what and who you don't know as much as you do ("From my deeply held agnostic standpoint"), it sure seems rather strange that you're able to bound from God-agnostic to Freeper-insider sophisticate just like that!

I mean what? Is that Magic-8 ball workin' for you as to how you know which FReeper is internally "enjoying" what?

From my deeply held agnostic standpoint, there seems to be a bit more to it than evangelism.

Let me get this straight. You go around boasting about your ignorance...agnostic is simply Greek for "ignorant" -- from the Greek word, agnôstos...And yet suddenly you're not so "ignorant" of Freeper-strangers whom either you don't know or barely know? Really? Sounds to me on a scale of 1 to 10 re: your "ignorance" level of some FREEPERS, you present yourself as a "6" or higher level ("10" = omniscience).

So are you a "soft-core" agnostic -- you don't know? Or a "hard-core" agnostic -- you don't believe anybody can know?

58 posted on 12/02/2010 4:05:38 PM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: nando9; Safrguns; Godzilla
Sorry for assuming, but it sure seems like it’s more about the posters’ own egos than helping any poor deluded Mormons.

Assumption apology accepted.

59 posted on 12/02/2010 4:11:39 PM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Colofornian
If we show more love we would be more persuasive for Christ.

I always wonder about this "love" talk. Jesus used a whip to drive out money changers, John the Baptist called the queen out, standing at the castle........really what is more loving than to work to rescue a person from a cult or to leave them there so they wont be offended. Sometimes the Word of God is offensive to the sinner.

60 posted on 12/02/2010 4:34:00 PM PST by svcw
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To: dmz

Think of me as one of those who the FR Mormon Romney advocates declared to be a pig who they were going to hose and ask yourself whose hosing who.


61 posted on 12/02/2010 4:35:02 PM PST by delacoert
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To: greyfoxx39
If you weren't a mormon with the fallacious belief in the three-person mormon godhead, you wouldn't even have to ask that question.

My questions were rhetorical.

According to Acts 1:9-11, Jesus was taken up into heaven and will return like manner. He did not remain physically on Earth, performing miracles for everyone to see. Had He done so, that would be "proof" to everyone that He is the Son of God, who has all power, including power over death.

Of course, as every Christian should know, in this life we "walk by faith, not by sight." (2 Corinthians 5:7). Jesus promised that His disciples would receive power and the Holy Ghost after His ascension into heaven (Acts 1:8). Although we may not see Him, we can know that Jesus is the Christ, our Savior and Redeemer, by the witness of the Holy Ghost.

Likewise, we can know that the Book of Mormon is true, not by seeing the golden plates, but by the witness of the Holy Ghost.

62 posted on 12/02/2010 5:38:15 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Logophile

You are asserting that God’s Spirit would affirm as true a book of fictional places, fictional people, and fictional events. And you even try to make the case that God proves The Christ by His Holy Spirit witness, yet ignore that God has given a myriad of physical proof to consult, yet there is exactly zero physical proof for the Smithian poorly written novel, the B of M. Well, I suppose the god of Mormonism, the god whom your founders taught had to ‘gain the attributes of godhood’ would affirm fiction as fact for Mormons, but the God Who’s name is I AM would not. ... And you wonder why a handful of Christians continue to oppose the demonic religion named Mormonism? Wow, just wow.


63 posted on 12/02/2010 7:19:05 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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Wow, I was so upset at reading your post that I mistakenly used a contraction when I should have written a possessive pronoun. I’m still shock at the disconnect


64 posted on 12/02/2010 7:21:23 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: delacoert
Are you volunteering as the mind reader who provides this discernment on FR Religion forums?

I was responding to your statement "asking questions is so unloving." I was indicating that asking questions can express either love or derision. I made no claim regarding a personal ability to acutely discern between the two. But now that you mention it. . .I certainly do sense a rather derisive tone to your writings, but that would be a result of the obvious and not a manifestation, on my part, of an advanced ability to discern.

65 posted on 12/02/2010 7:32:37 PM PST by McBuff
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To: MHGinTN
You are asserting that God’s Spirit would affirm as true a book of fictional places, fictional people, and fictional events.

No, I am saying that God would not affirm something to be true unless it is true.

66 posted on 12/02/2010 8:21:21 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Logophile; MHGinTN
No, I am saying that God would not affirm something to be true unless it is true.

and on what basis is it 'affirmed' - subjective yes?

God 'affirmed' to smith to send his folks to canada (iirc) and the copywrite to the bom would be sold for a lot of money. Never happened, yet smith had it affirmed by God.

67 posted on 12/02/2010 8:24:39 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Logophile

And since the B of M is fiction—not one shred of evidence for the people the places or the events—we can safely assert that God did not affirm the fiction as true. Now the god of Momronism might have done so, and we have ample definition of the god of Mormonism from Joseph Smith’s teachings on that subject and subsequent teaching from follow-up ‘prophets’ of Mormonism. But their teaching doesn’t magically make the fiction become real people or real events or real places. The God fo Abraham is not the author of confusion or deceit. The God of Abraham and Isaac did not affirm the fictional fantasies of Joseph Smith, but I am getting a strong hint of whom did and does affirm these fictions as if truths.


68 posted on 12/02/2010 9:10:32 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Godzilla
and on what basis is it 'affirmed' - subjective yes?

God communicates to humans in varied ways, from angelic visitations to the "still, small voice" (1 Kings 19:12).

Almost all such communications may be considered "subjective" because they tend to be personal and private rather than public.

69 posted on 12/03/2010 5:39:41 AM PST by Logophile
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To: Logophile
Although we may not see Him, we can know that Jesus is the Christ, our Savior and Redeemer, by the witness of the Holy Ghost.

Likewise, we can know that the Book of Mormon is true, not by seeing the golden plates, but by the witness of the Holy Ghost.

So, are you claiming that the golden plates were/are as real as Jesus Christ?

Thanks for clearing that up. The continual attempt by mormonism to downgrade Christ to fit the mormon template is really obvious in some posts here.

Mormonism claims "He WAS just a man who had to "work His way up" to Godhood.

Photobucket

70 posted on 12/03/2010 6:25:41 AM PST by greyfoxx39 ("People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer)
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To: MHGinTN
Paul wrote ICor2:14 for folks just like you.

You'll have to remind me of where I suggested that anything from the spirit of God is foolishness.

71 posted on 12/03/2010 7:56:11 AM PST by dmz
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To: Logophile
God communicates to humans in varied ways, from angelic visitations to the "still, small voice"

I think another set of verses more fully addresses your point:

2 Corinthians 11
12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

As we can see God is not the only one who communicates that way, hence the ability to think, reason and observe his physical world for verification of the tangible elements of his work.

The one and only all powerful uncreated and every creating God doesn't play hide and seek with his people over mundane Earthly things. I accept that Christ is divine on faith, that he existed on the tangible facts and history that surrounds him.

Just as I don't need nor expect the Holy Spirit to tell me there is a McDonald's down the street, I do not need him to tell me there was a Rome, a Herod or a Bethlehem.

72 posted on 12/03/2010 7:57:29 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Colofornian
Methinks you doth protest too much.

I mean what? Is that Magic-8 ball workin' for you as to how you know which FReeper is internally "enjoying" what?

Oh please, dispense with the drama. I expressed an opinion. That happens a lot around here. I may even do it again today on some other thread. Who knows?

are you a "soft-core" agnostic -- you don't know? Or a "hard-core" agnostic -- you don't believe anybody can know?

Definitely an I don't know type. Assuming your question was sincere and not a 'gotcha' thing.

Chuckling, re: your thoughts on my displaying of my ignorance. Thankfully I was raised in such a way that I am not ashamed in the slightest when I don't know something.

And really, take a look at posts #2 and 3 on this thread. There appear to be folks on these threads that are here for the enjoyment of the sport. Again, JMO.

73 posted on 12/03/2010 8:03:20 AM PST by dmz
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To: Logophile

Yet smith had a ‘confirmed’ word from God - that didn’t happen. Sorry Logo, when one relies solely upon the subjective, then you open yourself to your deceptive heart, evil spiritual elements disguised as good and whichful thinking.


74 posted on 12/03/2010 9:04:30 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: McBuff

People falsely believe they can interpret the tone of internet messages:

Read More at http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179#ixzz1752McmU4

75 posted on 12/03/2010 12:19:39 PM PST by delacoert
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To: greyfoxx39
So, are you claiming that the golden plates were/are as real as Jesus Christ?

Jesu Christ and the plates are real, yes. However, Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God; the plates are inanimate objects on which was engraved a record of God's dealing with human beings.

Thanks for clearing that up. The continual attempt by mormonism to downgrade Christ to fit the mormon template is really obvious in some posts here.

Now you are getting silly. To say that A is as real as B is not to "downgrade" either A or B.

76 posted on 12/03/2010 1:44:20 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Logophile; greyfoxx39
However, Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

Hey logo, you are beginning to sound like a modalist or even a trinitarian here. You need to clarify your definitions here a bit.

77 posted on 12/03/2010 1:50:24 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Logophile
To say that A is as real as B is not to "downgrade" either A or B.

That's total mormon crapola when B is Jesus Christ and A is the fictional golden plates of mormonism.

The blasphemy that is posted here by mormons is endless.

78 posted on 12/03/2010 1:57:36 PM PST by greyfoxx39 ("People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer)
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To: Godzilla
It is really hard to fight the truth no matter how powerful the spirit of lies is within one..
79 posted on 12/03/2010 2:16:18 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22
It is really hard to fight the truth no matter how powerful the spirit of lies is within one..

Indeed (o.O)

80 posted on 12/03/2010 2:18:09 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: McBuff
If we show more love we would be more persuasive for Christ. 

 
Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23
 
  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
 


Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
 

And St. Paul chimes in...

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
 

81 posted on 12/03/2010 2:42:24 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Paragon Defender
 
 
HI!
 
 My screen name is Paragon Defender; but you can call me PD (if you are SINCERE, that is.)
 
I provide TRUTH to ALL who would care to seek it (if they are REALLY sincere) and I do it OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER  again.

I am pleased to offer my services for the Betterment of Mankind.

Please feel free to ask me ANYTHING and I'll sincerely post my link list again.

Remember...

I am normal too; and I am a MORMON!

 

Sincerely,

PD


 
 

82 posted on 12/03/2010 2:43:27 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: nando9
I’ve been lurking for quite a while and I just can’t quite get why people here think they are doing good by posting stuff like this.

Some have been called to expose false teachings.
 
 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.


83 posted on 12/03/2010 2:46:09 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: McBuff
One can ask a question with a loving heart and one can ask a question with derision in their heart.

And, according to Prof. Robert Millet, BYU, you students do NOT have to answer questions if you do not want to.

(You'll see this in this thread...)

84 posted on 12/03/2010 2:47:51 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: delacoert
People falsely believe they can interpret the tone of internet messages

What you mean to say, I believe, is that interpreting tone is more challenging then a face to face conversation. This is true, not just with internet but any typed communication. . .however there are advantages to typed communications in other areas. . which is why almost all legal communication is in writing. That being the case, however, it is not impossible to interpret tone via the written word, just more challenging, with more opportunity for misunderstanding.

If indeed I'm in error in sensing a derisive tone to your writings. . .could it not also be possible that you need to be more effective in communicating given that you recognize the greater likelihood of misunderstanding in this medium? I dare say that's the other side of the coin. . .that sometimes we write things and we think what we are saying and expressing is fine. . .but in fact, it is our poor ability to communicate effectively that causes a miscommunication. You seem to be saying that its everybody else's problem if you are not understood. But.. .that's not a very effective attitude. . .if indeed your objective is to help others.

Think about Jesus' example. . .he said because you don't believe my words. . .believe the works and know that I am in the Father and the Father in me. . .In other words. . he was focused on them. . .not on himself. When they didn't believe the works. . .he went to the Cross and demonstrated what love looks like. . what love acts like. . . he didn't keep score. . .he even wept for the souls that could not hear his word .."Father forgive them. . .they know not what they do". . .This is the love I'm talking about. . .that's the path to be heard.

85 posted on 12/03/2010 6:38:11 PM PST by McBuff
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To: McBuff

Indeed.

I differ to my statement in my profile. Reasons Why I Post on the FR Religion Forum. It is as honest as I can be.

86 posted on 12/03/2010 9:52:15 PM PST by delacoert
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To: Saundra Duffy
 
Mormons believe in the Bible (KJV).
 
Sorry; but their AoF makes it appear that they don't.
 
Do you have a LIST of the places that the KJV is translated INCORRECTLY?
 



Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.


They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

87 posted on 12/04/2010 4:00:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: greyfoxx39
MILK: If you weren't a mormon with the fallacious belief in the three-person mormon godhead, you wouldn't even have to ask that question.

MEAT: TYhe three-person mormon godhead, where only TWO have a physical body.

QUESTION: Are these THREE equal in every way except that ONE has no BODY?

88 posted on 12/04/2010 4:04:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Saundra Duffy
 

Atheists can come up with a thousand questions about the Bible and demand that you answer them one by one but who has time for all that nonsense?


 
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
 

89 posted on 12/04/2010 4:05:48 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Godzilla
Secondly, it is like pulling hens teeth to get mormons to stand up and actually ellucidate what their doctrines are.

You Hateful BIGOT!

You KNOW that we do NOT have to know these things, but merely "Follow the Prophet" to stay on the Straight and Narrow!

--MormonDude(Excuse my shortness with you, but I'm rushing around, trying to get to Temple on time, to perform some of our SACRED Mormon Rituals there, and so forth.)

90 posted on 12/04/2010 4:09:22 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Colofornian
I mean what? Is that Magic-8 ball workin' for you as to how you know which FReeper is internally "enjoying" what?




 
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
 
The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
 
  1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
  4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
  5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
  16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
  21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
  24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
  26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
  34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

91 posted on 12/04/2010 4:59:07 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Logophile
According to Acts 1:9-11, Jesus was taken up into heaven and will return like manner.

And, when He returns, EVERY eye will see Him; NOT just JS and others in secluded places!


Likewise, we can know that the Book of Mormon is true, not by seeing the golden plates, but by the witness of the Holy Ghost.

No... we can know that the Book of Mormon is FALSE, because there is NOTHING in it that has EVER been found on Earth.

The FULLNESS of the Gospel is NOT in it; the SACRED Temple Rites® of MORMONism are not in it; and SURELY not by the WITNESS of the HOLY GHOST - for even mere BEREANS looked to the SCRIPTURES to see if what they were being told was true, and did NOT rely on some vague FEELING they had for assurance.

92 posted on 12/04/2010 5:05:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Logophile
No, I am saying that God would not affirm something to be true unless it is true.

So then; you AGREE that GOD has hidden ALL of the artifacts, cities, animal bones and peoples described in the BoM?

93 posted on 12/04/2010 5:07:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Logophile
God communicates to humans in varied ways, from angelic visitations to the "still, small voice" (1 Kings 19:12).

And how would you say SATAN gets his message across?

94 posted on 12/04/2010 5:08:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: dmz
Assuming your question was sincere and not a 'gotcha' thing.

If it were the other way around, would your answer change?

95 posted on 12/04/2010 5:10:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Logophile
To say that A is as real as B is not to "downgrade" either A or B.

To say that B is real only on the word of some folks with vested interest in it is, well, hopeful at the least.

96 posted on 12/04/2010 5:12:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: McBuff
If indeed I'm in error in sensing a derisive tone to your writings.

I DO have that tone in MY writings at times; but it is not logical to claim that my TONE nullifies the TRUTHFULLNESS of what I post.

Folks use that argument to AVOID the truth.

97 posted on 12/04/2010 5:15:55 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Elsie

bttt


98 posted on 12/04/2010 8:11:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Elsie

Isn’t it the duty of believers to come to a knowledge of the truth?

Isn’t that done both my study and by prayer?

Isn’t trruth the domain of the Spirit of Truth?

Isn’t it so that throughout scripture people are asked to do and believe things that were new, foreign, confusing, illogical, or unknowable at that time?

If the Spirit of Truth teaches truth to your spirit, at what point do you reject that because of something you may not understand?

It is arrogant and presumptuous for any of you to dismiss out of hand the witness of the Spirit of Truth to others. It is even worse that you so comfortably deem any such witnesses as demonic. Precisely who do you think you are?

Leaving mormons out of it for a second, if god is not a god of confusion, how else would you describe the current state of christianity? Fractured, fragmented, at odds, confused, subject to countless interpretive variations? Maybe you are clear as to your own beliefs, but why yours over the christian down the road who doesn’t go to your service? Or baptize the way you do? Or who follows one preacher over another? Or a pope?

Perhaps all of those differences don’t matter, as long as mormons and their practices are ridiculed enough.


99 posted on 12/04/2010 4:04:27 PM PST by nando9
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To: Elsie

You place an inordinate amount of faith in physical proof of spiritual things. Good thing all the prophets and apostles who wrote the scriptures you rely on didn’t.


100 posted on 12/04/2010 4:07:38 PM PST by nando9
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