Posted on 12/01/2010 6:28:46 PM PST by delacoert
Think of me as one of those who the FR Mormon Romney advocates declared to be a pig who they were going to hose and ask yourself whose hosing who.
My questions were rhetorical.
According to Acts 1:9-11, Jesus was taken up into heaven and will return like manner. He did not remain physically on Earth, performing miracles for everyone to see. Had He done so, that would be "proof" to everyone that He is the Son of God, who has all power, including power over death.
Of course, as every Christian should know, in this life we "walk by faith, not by sight." (2 Corinthians 5:7). Jesus promised that His disciples would receive power and the Holy Ghost after His ascension into heaven (Acts 1:8). Although we may not see Him, we can know that Jesus is the Christ, our Savior and Redeemer, by the witness of the Holy Ghost.
Likewise, we can know that the Book of Mormon is true, not by seeing the golden plates, but by the witness of the Holy Ghost.
You are asserting that God’s Spirit would affirm as true a book of fictional places, fictional people, and fictional events. And you even try to make the case that God proves The Christ by His Holy Spirit witness, yet ignore that God has given a myriad of physical proof to consult, yet there is exactly zero physical proof for the Smithian poorly written novel, the B of M. Well, I suppose the god of Mormonism, the god whom your founders taught had to ‘gain the attributes of godhood’ would affirm fiction as fact for Mormons, but the God Who’s name is I AM would not. ... And you wonder why a handful of Christians continue to oppose the demonic religion named Mormonism? Wow, just wow.
Wow, I was so upset at reading your post that I mistakenly used a contraction when I should have written a possessive pronoun. I’m still shock at the disconnect
I was responding to your statement "asking questions is so unloving." I was indicating that asking questions can express either love or derision. I made no claim regarding a personal ability to acutely discern between the two. But now that you mention it. . .I certainly do sense a rather derisive tone to your writings, but that would be a result of the obvious and not a manifestation, on my part, of an advanced ability to discern.
No, I am saying that God would not affirm something to be true unless it is true.
and on what basis is it 'affirmed' - subjective yes?
God 'affirmed' to smith to send his folks to canada (iirc) and the copywrite to the bom would be sold for a lot of money. Never happened, yet smith had it affirmed by God.
And since the B of M is fiction—not one shred of evidence for the people the places or the events—we can safely assert that God did not affirm the fiction as true. Now the god of Momronism might have done so, and we have ample definition of the god of Mormonism from Joseph Smith’s teachings on that subject and subsequent teaching from follow-up ‘prophets’ of Mormonism. But their teaching doesn’t magically make the fiction become real people or real events or real places. The God fo Abraham is not the author of confusion or deceit. The God of Abraham and Isaac did not affirm the fictional fantasies of Joseph Smith, but I am getting a strong hint of whom did and does affirm these fictions as if truths.
God communicates to humans in varied ways, from angelic visitations to the "still, small voice" (1 Kings 19:12).
Almost all such communications may be considered "subjective" because they tend to be personal and private rather than public.
Likewise, we can know that the Book of Mormon is true, not by seeing the golden plates, but by the witness of the Holy Ghost.
So, are you claiming that the golden plates were/are as real as Jesus Christ?
Thanks for clearing that up. The continual attempt by mormonism to downgrade Christ to fit the mormon template is really obvious in some posts here.
Mormonism claims "He WAS just a man who had to "work His way up" to Godhood.
You'll have to remind me of where I suggested that anything from the spirit of God is foolishness.
I think another set of verses more fully addresses your point:
2 Corinthians 11
12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
As we can see God is not the only one who communicates that way, hence the ability to think, reason and observe his physical world for verification of the tangible elements of his work.
The one and only all powerful uncreated and every creating God doesn't play hide and seek with his people over mundane Earthly things. I accept that Christ is divine on faith, that he existed on the tangible facts and history that surrounds him.
Just as I don't need nor expect the Holy Spirit to tell me there is a McDonald's down the street, I do not need him to tell me there was a Rome, a Herod or a Bethlehem.
I mean what? Is that Magic-8 ball workin' for you as to how you know which FReeper is internally "enjoying" what?
Oh please, dispense with the drama. I expressed an opinion. That happens a lot around here. I may even do it again today on some other thread. Who knows?
are you a "soft-core" agnostic -- you don't know? Or a "hard-core" agnostic -- you don't believe anybody can know?
Definitely an I don't know type. Assuming your question was sincere and not a 'gotcha' thing.
Chuckling, re: your thoughts on my displaying of my ignorance. Thankfully I was raised in such a way that I am not ashamed in the slightest when I don't know something.
And really, take a look at posts #2 and 3 on this thread. There appear to be folks on these threads that are here for the enjoyment of the sport. Again, JMO.
Yet smith had a ‘confirmed’ word from God - that didn’t happen. Sorry Logo, when one relies solely upon the subjective, then you open yourself to your deceptive heart, evil spiritual elements disguised as good and whichful thinking.
People falsely believe they can interpret the tone of internet messages:
At the same time, those reading messages unconsciously interpret them based on their current mood, stereotypes and expectations. Despite this, the research subjects thought they accurately interpreted the messages nine out of 10 times.
The reason for this is egocentrism, or the difficulty some people have detaching themselves from their own perspective, says Epley. In other words, people aren't that good at imagining how a message might be understood from another person's perspective.
Read More at http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179#ixzz1752McmU4
Jesu Christ and the plates are real, yes. However, Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God; the plates are inanimate objects on which was engraved a record of God's dealing with human beings.
Thanks for clearing that up. The continual attempt by mormonism to downgrade Christ to fit the mormon template is really obvious in some posts here.
Now you are getting silly. To say that A is as real as B is not to "downgrade" either A or B.
Hey logo, you are beginning to sound like a modalist or even a trinitarian here. You need to clarify your definitions here a bit.
That's total mormon crapola when B is Jesus Christ and A is the fictional golden plates of mormonism.
The blasphemy that is posted here by mormons is endless.
Indeed (o.O)
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