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Islamic And Mormonism Similarities: Similarities Between Joseph Smith and Muhammad
The Interactive Bible ^ | Brother Andrew

Posted on 12/26/2010 8:41:08 AM PST by Colofornian

Islam: Truth or Myth? start page

* "Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca at Salt Lake... Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith's model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul 'revelations.' " (The Women of Mormonism, Frances E. Willard, 1882, Introduction, p. xvi)

* "The student of Mormonism will be struck with the similarity of experience and claims of Joseph Smith and Mohammed." (The Rocky Mountain Saints, T. B. H. Stenhouse 1873, p 2)

* "even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed" Gal 1:8

1. The followers of Muhammad and Joseph Smith both killed innocent "infidel" on the same date of 9/11. On September 11, 1857, Mormon militia massacred about 140 men, women and children under the authority of Brigham Young. However 17 very young children were spared and adopted into Mormon families. They were in fact sold to the highest Mormon family bidder and resold and traded many times afterwords. This event is called "The Mountain Meadows" massacre. Mormon leaders engaged in a deliberate rewriting of history to deny they were behind the murders. On September 11, 2001 Muhammad's followers, using the Koran as a guide, sent two airplanes into the World Trade Center killing 3000 innocent men, women and children. Muslims today have a PhD in rewriting history and preach in the mosques that Jews were actually driving the planes, not Muslim terrorists.

2. Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel "Moroni" and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 says, "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed."

3. Both were given visions.

4. Both were told that no true religion existed on the earth. In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the "strife among the different denominations," and this "cry and tumult" led him to ask God "which of all the sects were right — and which I should join." He was told that he must "join none of them, for they were all wrong... that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:8-19) N. J. Dawood says that Mohammed was also concerned with the fact that the Jews and Christians had "divided themselves into schismatic sects." In the scriptures given by Mohammed, we read: "Yet the Sects are divided concerning Jesus.... Truly, the unbelievers are in the grossest error." (The Koran, translated by N. J. Dawood, Surah 19, p. 34) In Surah 30, page 190, this warning appears: "Do not split up your religion into sects, each exulting in its own beliefs." In Surah 3, page 398, we read: "The only true faith in Allah's sight is Islam. Those to whom the Scriptures [i.e., Jews and Christians] were given disagreed among themselves through jealousy only after knowledge had been given them."

5. Both were to restore the long lost faith as the one true religion. Islam makes claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims, a claim that is as ridiculous as it is undocumented from either history or archaeology. Mormons make the unsubstantiated claim that the church in the first century were Mormon.

6. Both wrote a book inspired by God.

7. Both claimed to be illiterate or uneducated and used this as proof the book was inspired. "How could an illiterate man write the Koran or the Book of Mormon?" Joseph Smith is claimed to have only grade three education.

8. Both claimed the Bible was lost, altered, corrupted and unreliable.

9. Both claimed their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth.

10. Both claimed that their new "Bible" was based upon a record stored in heaven. With Islam, it is the "mother book" that resides in heaven with God. With Mormonism, it is the golden Nephi plates that the angel Moroni took back to heaven.

11. Both claim that the version we have in our hands today are identical to what the prophet revealed and that parts are not lost, altered and corrupted. Of course the proof that these claims are invalid is found in two books. The Mormon claim is proven false by a book called "3913 Changes to Book of Mormon" by Sandra Tanner. The Islamic claim is proven false by a book (In Arabic language) called, "Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down" by Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun. Both books show that the copy of the book of Mormon and the Koran used today is different from what was originally used when each religion was started.

12. Both claimed to be a final prophet of God.

13. Both claimed they were persecuted because of their pure faith.

14. Both were polygamists who had many wives.

15. Both borrowed from paganism/polytheism. Muhammad incorporated that polytheistic moon god called "Allah" and "Allah's three daughters" into Islam. Basically Muhammad chose Allah from within 350 known gods that were worshipped in Arabia and proclaimed the moon god to be the greatest and only God. Smith borrowed from a doctrine called "pyramidology" and the Masons and other magic systems.

16. Both received "after the fact corrective revelations" from God. Muhammad retracted the Satanic verses and Mormons retracted Smith's divine order mandating polygamy. But for Mormons it there is even a closer parallel. Sounds exactly like Muhammad and his satanic verses.

"As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi... which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again — and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated... I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil." (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, Preface)

17. Immediately after the death of Muhammad and Smith, a fight broke out from among the "faithful converts" as to who would succeed Muhammad and Smith. Both groups were plunged into irreparable division that has endured ever since. Islam and Mormonism both have squabbles among themselves as to who is the one true splinter group of their prophet!

18. Mormons, contrary to the Bible, "baptize the dead" by gathering genealogies of all men who lived on earth. This contradicts the Bible: "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless." Tit 3:9 While the Bible says avoid focusing in Genealogies, the Mormon church makes it their central focus of mission. Mormons have even been criticized for baptizing, by proxy, the Jews had died in Nazi Holocaust camps. When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died. In this way, Mormons view every man who lived, as being Mormons. In the same way Muslims claim that all men are born Muslims and when they learn the truth of Christianity, they are apostatizing from their first faith. Muslims re-write history by proclaiming Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims in a similar way Mormons baptize Jews (for example) with the expectation they will be Mormons in the next life. Yet gathering of large genealogical lists no more makes dead people Mormons in the next life, than re-writing history makes Jesus into a Muslim.

19. Both the Islam and Mormon religions have those who follow the "original doctrine" of the founding leaders and like these founding leaders, are violent, polygamists, and have revelations justifying their evil actions.

20. Both Muslims and Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses) have progressive revelation. Jw’s call it "new light". Muslims call it "Nasikh". Jehovah’s Witnesses were once instructed to celebrated Christmas, birthdays and salute the flag, but "new light" changed all that. Mormons like all Muslims, were originally polygamists until "The Manifesto" against polygamy came as a revelation to John Taylor, over 40 years after Smith's death, on the eve of the US government outlawing the practice of polygamy. New revelation always replaces older revelation that became inconvenient to the prophet.


TOPICS: History; Islam; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: inman; islam; lds; mormon; muslim
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To: SENTINEL; Red Badger; colorcountry; greyfoxx39; aMorePerfectUnion; SZonian

If you have not been a member, you simply cannot comprehend the severity of the burden of mormonism. 30-50 HOURS A WEEK of free labor, 10% (of gross) tithe with a year end tihing audit, a day’s pay once a month for fast offering, and GUILT, GUILT, GUILT mixed in with never ending deceit and false doctrine.

Many members are good people and are all God’ s children. They are being led straight to hell with secret masonic and occult temple practices (which you have not witnessed, I have), etc. We are trying to save them, as Christ tried to save the Jews during his time, because we love them.

- - - - - - -
Sentinel is dead on in his description of both the burden of Mormonism and our motives. I, like Sentinel, used to be LDS and have witness the same things. He is not exaggerating at all.

Furthermore, the LDS reject the Christian doctrine of salvation by grace (as Christians define it) and instead seek to earn their salvation through the legalism of their church, their rules and regs, tithing, a 2 year mission and also seek to become Gods themselves.

I never heard the gospel of Grace UNTIL AFTER I LEFT MORMONISM - THEY NOT ONLY DO NOT TEACH IT, THEY TEACH AGAINST IT.

I have pinged other ex-mo’s who will tell you the same thing.

Don’t be fooled by the external appearances Mormonism puts forth, it is a bright shiny red apple on the outside but poisonous and rotten to the core on the inside.


51 posted on 12/26/2010 3:32:22 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Utah Binger

Ping to 51


52 posted on 12/26/2010 3:33:05 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Paragon Defender
So you are calling Biblical Christianity a cult, like FLDS/LDS founders Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

Glad you did it in public writing, now your intent is clear.

The Pharasees called Christ flamboyant also...He could have healed the blind man without making a spit/mud ointment on a sunday.

I'll be seeing you.

53 posted on 12/26/2010 3:35:59 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: Red Badger; Vendome

I have been to many Baptist churches (including independent ones) and have never had that happen.

Vendome is IFB, what say you V about this?

And again, Baptists have paid clergy, not a volunteer force required to work 40+ hours a week. There is a huge difference - especially when it comes to doctrine.


54 posted on 12/26/2010 3:36:39 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ml/nj
I'm not talking about their early history when they were being chased all across the country. Obviously they had to stand and fight at some point or they wouldn't be here.

No; they were creating havoc everywhere in the country.

Only a part of the 'mormons' followed B.Y. out west. the others stayed behind without being KILLED, MUTILATED OR BURNT OUT.

THEY are the ones who ended up with all the property the FEARFUL ones abandoned...


Research the Rlds church: now Community of Christ.

55 posted on 12/26/2010 3:36:55 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender; SENTINEL

The only sites you post are full of lies and spin. No truth there.

And you are no more persuasive over on the political threads either. IOW, PD, don’t give up your ‘day job’.


56 posted on 12/26/2010 3:38:00 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Logophile
Mecca is the holiest city of Islam, so holy that non-Muslims are forbidden by law from entering the city.
 
TEMPLES are the HOLIEST buildings in MORMONism.  Most MORMONs can't even get in them after they are 'dedicated'!
 


 

In my view, Salt Lake City functions more like Rome than like Mecca.

 
 
Oh?

 
 
 
           
    Anahiem                          San Deigo     
 
Methinks you have picked the WRONG city: FANTASY happens to be a comparing description of what is going on in THESE two places...
  

57 posted on 12/26/2010 3:43:48 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Red Badger
CHRISTIANS should not be against each other. I know many Protestant people who say bad things about Catholics and vice versa.

Mormons themselves say they are NOT "one branch" off of the Protestant tree. (They don't consider themselves a "breakaway" sect -- but a "restoration" of a dead & dormant church).

IOW: Mormons call all Christians "apostates"; Muslims calls Christians "infidels"...Wanna explain the difference?

One more note: Lds leaders like "prophet" Gordon Hinckley -- and their official magazine (Ensign) -- say Mormons worship & believe in a different Christ...& other Mormon sources present a different god than the Christian God.

58 posted on 12/26/2010 3:44:40 PM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: Red Badger
Christ Is not wrong, the bible has not passed away. All churches of all denominations may stray.

Get right with God, know his word, and trust no man to be between you and God. On Judgement day, it's you and God, no other man will be present.

You will notice that we NEVER claim another Chruch to be RIGHT, only that the bible is accurate. Most of us are Non-denominational Christians.

Mormons, on the other hand have practiced such deceit and strong armed tactics over the years to cover up their doctrinal reversals that they need to be exposed for what they are. They began by claiming ALL CHRISTIAN SECTS ABOMINATIONS, THAT INCLUDES YOURS. Now they cover that up and try to STEAL the acceptance due Christianity by now claiming to be CHRISTIAN.

Look a couple posts back where Paragon Defender addressed me, HE CALLED BIBLICAL CHRISTIANTIY A CULT. THIS IS TRUE, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, MCCONKIE "MORMON DOCTRINE" MORMONISM.

They lie, we expose, who has sinned ?

59 posted on 12/26/2010 3:45:18 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: SENTINEL

So you are calling Biblical Christianity a cult


Not at all my strawman friend. I am calling the cult that obsesses over and constantly attacks the LDS Church a cult.

I know many Christians of other denominations that are not part of your cult.


60 posted on 12/26/2010 3:50:15 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: reaganaut
Paragon Defender in post 48 called Biblical Christianity a cult.

From now on I will begin my duty to expose them with his quote.....

SEEKERS OF TRUTH, PARAGON DEFENDER, ON DECEMBER 26th, 2010, HERE IN PUBLIC ON FREEREPUBLIC.COM CALLED BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY A CULT, LIKE FLDS/LDS FOUNDERS JOSEPH SMITH AND BRIGHAM YOUNG, and as taught straight out of LDS "Apostle" Bruce R McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine" published 1958.

Consider his perspective when reading ANY OF HIS FUTURE POSTS.

61 posted on 12/26/2010 3:52:59 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: Logophile

As for the allegation that the Koran was Joseph Smith's model, I suspect that the writer knew little of either the Book of Mormon or the Koran.

 
 
I "suspect" that JS didn't KNOW much about ANYTHING!
 
However....



 

If you cannot turn to the original Hebrew for possible meanings, it is sometimes helpful to try other translations. It is interesting to note that the Prophet Joseph Smith recommended such possible study procedures. He said:

“Our latitude and longitude can be determined in the original Hebrew with far greater accuracy than in the English version. There is a grand distinction between the actual meaning of the prophets and the present translation.” (See Documentary History of the Church, vol, 5, pp. 339–45.)

With reference to something of value noted in another translation of a part of the Bible, he once said:

“I have an old edition of the New Testament in the Latin, Hebrew, German and Greek languages. I have been reading the German and find it to be the most nearly correct translation, and to correspond nearest to the revelations which God has given to me for the last fourteen years.” (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 614.)

From --->   http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=8003438d9b76b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD



More...

 

The influence of German and German people seems to have matured in the Prophet Joseph Smith before his death in 1844. He apparently had gained some understanding of the German language, for in his last public speech, given at the funeral of a man named King Follett, he remarked, "I have been reading the German, and find [the Lutheran Bible] to be the most (nearly) correct translation, and to correspond nearest to the revelations which God has given to me for the last fourteen years."12 In the same sermon, the acknowledged climax of the Prophet's career, he translated into English while reading from the German Bible and added, "I know the text is true. I call upon all you Germans who know that it is true to say, Eye [sic]. (Loud shouts of 'Aye.')"13 A few days later Joseph Smith made further reference to this subject: "The Germans are an exalted people. The old German translators are the most nearly correct—most honest of any of the translators."14

(From ---> http://ash.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=11&num=1&id=295&cat_id=311 )



And yet, Joseph's GOD told him to re-'translate' the KJV of the Bible, instead of using the "More Correct" GERMAN one.

(And yet; the Salt Lake City bunch of MORMONs do NOT think the JST is considered to be SCRIPTURE.  I wonder why?)

 


62 posted on 12/26/2010 3:58:07 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
So you are calling Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Bruce R McConkie and many other LDS LEaders WHICH HIGHLY OUTRANK YOU, liars ? They called Biblical Christianity a cult, in MANY QUOTES published and printed BY YOUR OWN CHURCH PRESSES.

Who are you, some elder, are you even a High Priest, the rank I had when I resigned ?

Who are you to question the teachings of the men you say spoke with God face to face ?

I will continue to stive to be like Christ, Paul, and other TRUE APOSTLES, and expose and confront the lies and distortions of the the existing powers, forever and ever, amen.

63 posted on 12/26/2010 3:58:07 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: SENTINEL
So far, so good....And it's ok to drink a coffee during the sermon. ;)

What!!

HERETIC!

--MormonDude(Come back to the fold, and all will be forgiven.)

64 posted on 12/26/2010 4:01:07 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
Yea!

Yer back from CHURCH now!


Folks; this thread has something to do with MUSLIMs; I think...


 
 

OOooohhh!   PD!!

 

I LIKE this link!!!



 

Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship Mission Statement

The Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship exists to:
  • Describe and defend the Restoration through highest quality scholarship
  • Provide critically edited, primary resources (ancient religious texts) to scholars and laypersons around the world
  • Build bridges of understanding and goodwill to Muslim scholars by providing superior editions of primary texts
  • Provide an anchor of faith in a sea of LDS Studies

65 posted on 12/26/2010 4:03:45 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
 
 
 
 "I have seen several entirely sincere people who thought they were (permanent) Seekers after Truth. They sought diligently, persistently, carefully, cautiously, profoundly, with perfect honesty and nicely adjusted judgment--until they believed that without doubt or question they had found the Truth. That was the end of the search. The man spent the rest of his life hunting up shingles wherewith to protect his Truth from the weather. If he was seeking after political Truth he found it in one or another of the hundred political gospels which govern men in the earth; if he was seeking after the Only True Religion he found it in one or another of the three thousand that are on the market. In any case, when he found the Truth he sought no further; but from that day forth, with his soldering-iron in one hand and his bludgeon in the other he tinkered its leaks and reasoned with objectors." (from What is Man?)

-- Mark Twain

 


66 posted on 12/26/2010 4:04:24 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
 
 
 
PD; you have got some EXCELLANT web links!
I'm SO glad you've posted them!!!



Godhead

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) believe, as do other Christians, in one Supreme Being who governs the universe, and who is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving. However, Mormons don't believe that He works alone but as the presiding member of what they call the godhead.

The Bible dictionary says that God is “The Supreme Governor of the universe and the Father of mankind. We learn from the revelations that have been given that there are three separate persons in the Godhead: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit without flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22-23).”

 Mormons believe that these three gods—”separate in personality {but}. . . united as one in purpose, in plan, and in all the attributes of perfection” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 317)—are the partnership which rules the universe, with God the Eternal Father the controlling and governing power. LDS Apostle James E. Talmage states it this way: “These constitute the Holy Trinity, comprising three physically separate and distinct individuals, who together constitute the presiding council of the heavens” (Jesus the Christ, p. 32).

This belief is distinct from the traditional Christian doctrine of the Trinity, which generally maintains that they are three persons but one in essence. All three members of the Godhead are eternal and equally divine, but play somewhat different roles.

 

 

(From MORMON.wiki --->  http://www.mormonwiki.com/Godhead )   Move along: no agenda here...

 

67 posted on 12/26/2010 4:05:14 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
 
 
 
Yup, PD, REALLY good links!


God the Father

Our Heavenly Father, also called Elohim, stands in the exalted position above all beings.

 However, Joseph Smith says that “. . . he is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . .If you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, form, and image of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another” (Documentary History of the Church, p. 305).

 

 

Yup; the same source as above...


68 posted on 12/26/2010 4:05:59 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Red Badger
I know Jim Rob don’t much care for Mormon bashing.....

You KNOW?

What a JOKE!


 
 
 

69 posted on 12/26/2010 4:08:15 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Red Badger; Jim Robinson
I know Jim Rob don’t much care for Mormon bashing.....

Courtesy ping to Jim...

70 posted on 12/26/2010 4:09:21 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Red Badger
I am not a Mormon, but the ones I know are god fearing people.

Then they are deceived, for their CHURCH fears the United States Government, and NOT their 'god'.

The 'church' will EXCOMMUNICATE anyone found following wht their 'god' said to do in D&C 132.

71 posted on 12/26/2010 4:11:31 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Red Badger
I QUIT a Baptist church when they wanted to see my paycheck stub.....

Good for you; but THAT tactic is NOT spelled out in their 'scriptures'; probably the KJV of the BIBLE.

72 posted on 12/26/2010 4:12:57 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
Only then did I discover the anti-Mormon propaganda that is presented on a daily basis.

And yet; DEFENDER; you've YET to actually SHOW any.

On any other location other than FreeRepublic; you'd likely be called a LIAR.


Here is some of MORMONism's PROPAGANDA:


73 posted on 12/26/2010 4:15:57 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
I post links to the truth in response to the anti-Mormon gang that dwells here.

And we HEARTILY thank you for them!

74 posted on 12/26/2010 4:16:47 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Red Badger

“I am not a Mormon, but the ones I know are god fearing people.”

Sure. But which one? They believe in FOUR EARTH GODS:

1. Heavenly Father: used to be a man. Became a mormon god.
2. Heavenly Mother: used to be a woman. Became a mormon god

[The two of them breed perpetually in heaven to pop out every angel, spirit, etc. There may be MORE than one Heavenly Mother, since they believe in celestial polygamy]

3. Mormon Jesus: used to be a man, who earned godhood through his efforts - also a married polygamist.

4. Mormon Holy Ghost: a created spirit being who did something naughty and failed to get a body as punishment - somehow is a god.

5. BONUS MORMON GODS: millions/billions/trillions of mormon gods spread throughout the planets. More being minted all the time. Every mormon male could become a god, assuming he does all that good stuff you refer to.

6. God’s God: Mormons believe God had a god. His God had a god. His God’s god had a god, etc.

Which god do they fear?

ampu


75 posted on 12/26/2010 4:21:01 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Paragon Defender
 
 I am calling the cult that obsesses over and constantly attacks the LDS Church a cult.
 
All righty then!
Glad you cleared THAT up!



 

 
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 14
 
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
 
  1 And it shall come to pass, that if the aGentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in bpower, in very deed, unto the ctaking away of their dstumbling blocks—
  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be anumbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a bblessed people upon the cpromised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
  3 And that great apit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that bhell which hath no end.
  4 For behold, this is according to the acaptivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be awell with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso brepenteth not must perish.
  6 Therefore, awo be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a amarvelous work among the children of men; a bwork which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto cpeace and dlife eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the ecaptivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the acovenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the adevil.
  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save atwo churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the bother is the church of the cdevil; wherefore, dwhoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the ewhore of all the earth.
  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many awaters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were afew, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to afight against the Lamb of God.
  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were aarmed with brighteousness and with the cpower of God in great glory.
  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was apoured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the bnations and kindreds of the earth.
  16 And as there began to be awars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
  17 And when the aday cometh that the bwrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church  of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the cwork of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his dcovenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold aone of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
  21 Behold, he shall asee and bwrite the cremainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the abook which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most bprecious and easy to the understanding of all men.
  24 And behold, the things which this aapostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should awrite them.
  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have awritten them; and they are bsealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was aJohn, according to the word of the angel.
  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my afather saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was acarried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are btrue. And thus it is. Amen.
 

76 posted on 12/26/2010 4:22:42 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
I know many Christians of other denominations that are not part of your cult.

Shows that you hang around with uninformed 'christians'.

Why don't you get them to lurk these threads so they can see how you and your fellow MORMONs are picked on so unjustly.

77 posted on 12/26/2010 4:24:58 PM PST by Elsie
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
MORONI: used to be a man; and now an ANGEL?

How does THAT work?

78 posted on 12/26/2010 4:29:30 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

“MORONI: used to be a man; and now an ANGEL?”

“How does THAT work?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Promotion by the head demon, Wormwood for good work in helping young Joe Smith...


79 posted on 12/26/2010 4:37:58 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ml/nj

***No decapitations in Utah of outsiders who wander down the wrong trail either.***

It didn’t use to work that way.

Mountain Meadows Massacre,
Shephard’s wagon train ambush.
Mormons fighting alongside Indians at the Meeker Massacre,
Miltmore wagon train ambush.
Ambush of Lt Gay and his men led into it by a mormon “guide”.
Navajos supplied wih guns by the mormons during the Navajo wars.
Morrisite massacre,
and many more..

And then there are all those stories by reputable people of Mormons cutting the throats of “sinners” amongst the mormons” and castrations of other “sinners” who were mormon..


80 posted on 12/26/2010 4:38:41 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: Elsie

I was informed, maybe wrongly, by other FReepers long ago that I should not post any anti Mormon stuff at the peril of my account.
IS this not acurate?


81 posted on 12/26/2010 4:59:26 PM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing to something right.)
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To: Red Badger

***Many Baptist churches do these same things, especially the independents.
I QUIT a Baptist church when they wanted to see my paycheck stub.....***

I have never ever heard of a Baptist church doing this! Been going there for the last 35 years. ( Note: I am not a Baptist but the wife and kids are Baptists.)


82 posted on 12/26/2010 5:01:59 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Usually small non aligned congregations, not SBA or the other one I cant remember the letters....


83 posted on 12/26/2010 5:06:19 PM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing to something right.)
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To: SENTINEL; reaganaut
So far, so good....And it's ok to drink a coffee during the sermon. ;)

Glad to hear both Sentinel! As a nevermo, I can only relate to what I've read regarding the trust factor being damaged upon leaving mormonism. After all the teaching of the only true church - and being burned by it and all. Many exmormon sites have an abundance of atheists/agnostics. Good to have you finding a church home where you can fellowship with other Christians and heal. Being able to drink coffee during the sermon is bonus!

84 posted on 12/26/2010 5:09:14 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: reaganaut

Remember, any church can call itself Baptist. There are many that are really small fiefdoms for the preacher and his family. The WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH comes to mind....


85 posted on 12/26/2010 5:11:02 PM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing to something right.)
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To: Paragon Defender; All
Seekers of truth

Might well ask whether or not these so-called links (of which, only 2 can represent OFFICIAL doctrine for the lds church) will speak to this. When you do dig in, you will find prophets and apostles thrown under the bus because their teachings of doctrine are not PC enough in todays era - and so they must write them off. Seekers will note - for a church that claims a living prophet - these were the teachings of the living prophets at the time. If they are as screwed up as mormons of today claim - how trust worthy is the doctrine and teachings of the church built upon those very same 'mouthpieces' of the gods?


86 posted on 12/26/2010 5:14:43 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Elsie; Red Badger

***I QUIT a Baptist church when they wanted to see my paycheck stub.....***

“Good for you; but THAT tactic is NOT spelled out in their ‘scriptures’; probably the KJV of the BIBLE.”

Here it is! Strange! No forced giving!

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp

XIII. Stewardship

“God is the source of all blessings, temporal and spiritual; all that we have and are we owe to Him. Christians have a spiritual debtorship to the whole world, a holy trusteeship in the gospel, and a binding stewardship in their possessions. They are therefore under obligation to serve Him with their time, talents, and material possessions; and should recognize all these as entrusted to them to use for the glory of God and for helping others. According to the Scriptures, Christians should contribute of their means cheerfully, regularly, systematically, proportionately, and liberally for the advancement of the Redeemer’s cause on earth.”


87 posted on 12/26/2010 5:15:14 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: SENTINEL
If you have not been a member, you simply cannot comprehend the severity of the burden of mormonism. 30-50 HOURS A WEEK of free labor, 10% (of gross) tithe with a year end tihing audit, a day's pay once a month for fast offering, and GUILT, GUILT, GUILT mixed in with never ending deceit and false doctrine.

Even as bishop, I never devoted as much as 30 hours a week to church work. (Someone who spends that much time is probably doing it wrong.)

I tithe 10% on my net (not gross) income. I have never conducted or been subjected to a "tithing audit." (Do you mean "tithing settlement"?)

Fast offerings are voluntary contributions to help the poor. The amount given is entirely up to the giver; the cost of two meals per month is suggested. I try to give more, but no one has ever questioned or even commented on my fast offering.

As for guilt—well, I feel guilty when I offend others. In my opinion, guilt is entirely appropriate in such cases. Fortunately, the Atonement of Jesus Christ provides the means whereby I may repent of my sins.

88 posted on 12/26/2010 5:15:22 PM PST by Logophile
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To: reaganaut; Red Badger; MHGinTN

Never heard of such a thing in my life.

I grew up IFB and that would never happen. It’s an honor system and besides, we don’t believe in 10% tithe. As far as I know there are no Baptist churches that believe in a literal 10% tithe and there are no Baptist churches who would have the temerity to ask for a paycheck stub.

Why? Well, you could read the parable of the woman who gave so very little yet it was all she could and from her heart.

God is interested in your intentions.

God has zero interest in proving yourself “worthy and well qualified”. That is strictly a Mormon concept and a Masonic concept, of which I belong to.

There is none worthy, no, not one. So if God doesn’t make the disctinction of a anyone being better than the other, for any reason, why then should it make sense to prove you are worthy.

Clearly you are not worthy and proof of your honesty by usurpation of your free will to decide “what” you want to give, how much of it and when is not worthy of God and is a concept of obligation by man to man.

41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. 42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. 43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: 44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

BTW, I went to Southern Baptist all over The South for years and I never heard of this practice proving yourself to another by showing your paycheck stub.

It’s stupid, without basis and ignores that may have a cast down, baby clothing, food, money, etc.

But you can give what you would and you would give what you can because the spirit compels you. Not because some man goaded you or shamed you to prove you are worthy or even a good Christian.

You need only prove yourself to God.

All the rest is bragging rights and God doesn’t care for that either.

I believe MHGinTN had something more succint on this subject a few days ago.

Nice try though. He’s a Southerner and he won’t buy what you are selling either.

If you want to name the church that requires this I would be happy to investigate myself but I’m calling Bravo Sierra on this one.


89 posted on 12/26/2010 5:22:31 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Man! You people sure have a lot of hatred in your hearts.

I'm Jewish. I really don't know much about the Mormons except for the hospitality they showed me when I visited their place. I have a copy of their book, which I've only looked at a little. Just let's say that our book has a lot more witnesses and archeology. But since I thought they were nice people anyway I did try to learn a little bit about their history when I got back home. This is nearly 20 years ago so maybe my memory has faded a bit. My recollection thought is that these folks were persecuted from pillar to post, and sometimes they fought back. A quick look at the Wiki articles now reinforces this.

If it is Mormon doctrine to slit non-believers throats and someone can point out where I might find this in any of their writings I will certainly have a look. This started as some sort of comparison between Islam and Mormonism; and surely I can find the "smite them at their necks" stuff in the Koran. Until someone leads me to such passages in the Book of Mormon, I guess I'll remain shocked by the hatred some of my fellow FReepers show for this group.

ML/NJ

90 posted on 12/26/2010 5:23:33 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Red Badger

Good point. There are many cults that masquerade as Christian churches, and that is not limited to the Baptists alone.

And they should be held to the same doctrinal standards as everyone else who claims to be part of the body of Christ.

And Mormonism is apart from Biblical Christianity and not even close to Christianity doctrinally.


91 posted on 12/26/2010 5:23:46 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Red Badger

****Usually small non aligned congregations, not SBA or the other one I cant remember the letters....****

The only church I can think of other than Mormons that require 10% would be the Seventh Day Adventists (SDA). Many of the other churches wish the congregation would voluntarily give 10% but don’t require it.


92 posted on 12/26/2010 5:25:21 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: Red Badger; Elsie; greyfoxx39

“I was informed, maybe wrongly, by other FReepers long ago that I should not post any anti Mormon stuff at the peril of my account.
IS this not acurate?”

- - - - - - -
It used to be that way a very long time ago, but that changed several years back. I have pinged Greyfoxx39 as she was part of the ‘mormon war’ here on FR. She can fill you in as I was off FR at the time.


93 posted on 12/26/2010 5:27:54 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: SENTINEL

Good to hear, fellowship is important for spiritual growth even though our salvation is not dependant upon it.

And it is very hard to trust after coming out of a cult. I have some friends who attended a cowboy church (the husband was saved at one from Mormonism) for many years and spoke highly of the movement.


94 posted on 12/26/2010 5:32:39 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ml/nj

***If it is Mormon doctrine to slit non-believers throats and someone can point out where I might find this in any of their writings I will certainly have a look.****

Google the words — blood atonement — and you will get plenty. Please note I did not say for you to google MORMON BLOOD ATONEMENT, but only the words— blood atonement.


95 posted on 12/26/2010 5:43:15 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Go away, you HATER. I asked one or two simple questions of you. I didn't ask you to suggest that I do some research. This isn't really my fight or my issue, except that your HATRED is shocking to me.

ML/NJ

96 posted on 12/26/2010 5:50:50 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj; Colofornian; Ruy Dias de Bivar; Godzilla; Elsie

Your attributions of hatred, when we have done/said nothing hateful speaks more negatively about you than us.

Also, why do you care? You are Jewish, and they reject Jesus as Messiah, so you don’t have a dog in this fight.

You assume that all Mormon doctrine can/is found in the Book of Mormon, or even the D&C and that is simply NOT true. Mormons believe in ‘continuing revelation’ and blood atonement comes not from their scripture but from their ‘prophets’.

However, we would be more than willing to provide quotes from their prophets (also considered scripture) about the doctrine.

Start here...

http://www.ils.unc.edu/~unsworth/mormon/bloodatonement.html


97 posted on 12/26/2010 6:00:05 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ml/nj

YOUR WORDS...

****If it is Mormon doctrine to slit non-believers throats and someone can point out where I might find this in any of their writings I will certainly have a look.****

I showed you where to look and you throw a hissyfit.

I just can’t please some people!


98 posted on 12/26/2010 6:00:40 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: ml/nj

“This isn’t really my fight or my issue, except that your HATRED is shocking to me.”

People are drawn to some TV shows for that very reason!

It would appear that your post itself is quite judgmental and hateful. I find your usage of capitals hateful.


99 posted on 12/26/2010 6:03:24 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ml/nj; SENTINEL; SZonian; greyfoxx39; colorcountry
I really don't know much about the Mormons

Well, that is obvious. I (and other inmans) however DO know alot about Mormons and their doctrines. Many of us haven't just 'met' nice Mormons, we lived that religion, we taught those doctrines and we believed them. And then we found out the truth - that Mormonism is all a lie.

100 posted on 12/26/2010 6:03:47 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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