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Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ
LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

Posted on 01/02/2011 5:46:30 PM PST by Paragon Defender

Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

By Elder Dennis B. Neuenschwander Of the Seventy

 

 

 

Dennis B. Neuenschwander, “Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ,” Ensign, Jan 2009, 16–22

Adapted from a presentation to the Seventy.

 

 

 

In the Doctrine and Covenants we read that Joseph Smith was “called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:2). The call of an Apostle is first to witness or testify of Jesus Christ. Old Testament prophets testified of His coming. The New Testament Apostles bore personal witness of Christ’s being and of the absolute reality of His Resurrection. This apostolic witness was the basis of their teaching. “Ye shall be witnesses unto me” (Acts 1:8) was Jesus’s instruction to the original Twelve. Peter testified on the day of Pentecost to the Jews who had gathered “out of every nation” (Acts 2:5) that “this Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses” (Acts 2:32). Similarly, Paul wrote to the Corinthians that Jesus “was seen of me also” (1 Corinthians 15:8). The sure witness of Christ’s being and the reality of His Resurrection is the first pillar of apostolic testimony.

The second pillar is centered on the Savior’s redemptive and saving power. Peter teaches that to the Lord “give all the Prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

Without these twin pillars of testimony concerning Christ, there could be no Apostle. Such testimonies are born of experience, divine command, and instruction. For example, Luke writes that Christ showed Himself to the Apostles “alive after his passion … being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3).

How does the Prophet Joseph Smith fit into these apostolic requirements? The answer is “Perfectly.”

The First Vision

Joseph Smith’s apostolic instruction began in 1820. Pondering the questions of religion, he soon found that there was no way to reason or argue one’s opinion to an authoritative conclusion concerning the correctness of the various churches or their doctrines. Short of a divine manifestation, young Joseph could add only one more opinion to the already existing “war of words and tumult of opinions” (Joseph Smith—History 1:10). But Joseph’s questions on religion were answered by the personal and physical manifestation of God the Father and His divine and living Son, Jesus Christ—an experience referred to as the First Vision.

Like that of the original Apostles, Joseph’s experience with Deity was direct and personal. There was no need for the opinion of others or the deliberations of a council to define what he saw or what it came to mean to him. Joseph’s vision was at first an intensely personal experience—an answer to a specific question. Over time, however, illuminated by additional experience and instruction, it became the founding revelation of the Restoration.

As apostolic as this manifestation of Christ’s being, existence, and Resurrection was to Joseph Smith, it was not the only thing Jesus wanted to teach him. The boy Joseph’s first lesson arose from the manifestation of Christ’s absolute, omnipotent, and divine power. Joseph learned firsthand at least one meaning of the redeeming and saving power of Christ when he prayed in the grove. As he began to pray, “Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction” (Joseph Smith—History 1:15). With every bit of energy Joseph had, he began to call upon God to deliver him from the grasp of this enemy.

“At the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction … , I saw a pillar of light. …

“It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound” (Joseph Smith—History 1:16–17).

Joseph Smith’s confrontation with the adversary is reminiscent of an experience Moses had, about which the Prophet would learn some few years later. Unlike the boy Joseph, however, Moses saw God’s greatness first and then was confronted with the power of the adversary before being delivered from his influence. (See Moses 1.)

The difference in the order of events is significant. Moses was already far into maturity and had much knowledge and influence prior to this event. By displaying His magnificent power to Moses before he faced the adversary, the Lord helped Moses put his life into perspective. After experiencing God’s glory, Moses said, “Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed” (Moses 1:10). This incident enabled Moses to withstand the temptations of the adversary that followed.

Joseph Smith, on the other hand, was an inexperienced young man, who in his lifetime would repeatedly face adversarial power and the overwhelming problems it brings. By facing the adversary first, then being saved from his assault by the appearance of the Father and the Son, Joseph learned this indelible lesson: as great as the power of evil might be, it must always withdraw with the appearance of righteousness.

This lesson was critical in Joseph’s apostolic education. He needed this knowledge not only because of the personal trials that lay ahead of him but also because of the overwhelming opposition he would face in founding and directing the Church.

The boy Joseph went into the grove seeking wisdom, and wisdom he received. His apostolic instruction had begun. Among the great apostolic lessons of this First Vision were both the physical nature of the Savior and Heavenly Father and the initial and fundamental lessons relating to Their power—each a pillar of apostolic testimony.

The Book of Mormon

Joseph Smith’s early apostolic instruction continued with his translation of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon gave Joseph access to “the fulness of the everlasting Gospel” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34), principles that were necessary to understand even prior to the organization of the Church. The Prophet was introduced to numerous “plain and most precious” (1 Nephi 13:26) prophetic and apostolic testimonies regarding the Savior, all of which served as models for him.

Indeed, the Book of Mormon prophets employ over 100 titles in their teachings of Christ, each of which helped Joseph understand the Savior’s divine role.1 By virtue of these teachings, Joseph Smith became intimately acquainted with ancient prophets, giving him insight into the divine purpose of his responsibilities.

The Book of Mormon illuminates the universality of Christ’s Atonement. The Savior’s holy sacrifice is not confined to the borders of the Holy Land of His day or even restricted to the apostolic world of the original Twelve. The Atonement encompasses all of God’s creations—past, present, and future. What an impression Jacob’s teaching of the “infinite atonement” (2 Nephi 9:7) must have made on the mind of young Joseph, especially in contrast to Christian teachings at the time.

The Book of Mormon also introduces the universality of the Resurrection and other doctrines relating to it. Discourses on this doctrine by Lehi, Jacob, King Benjamin, Abinadi, Alma, Amulek, Samuel the Lamanite, and Moroni are all rich sources of instruction.

During the translation of the Book of Mormon, the Prophet received additional valuable personal instruction concerning the redemptive and saving power of Christ. In 1828 Martin Harris persuaded Joseph to lend him the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript. When Martin Harris lost those pages, the Prophet felt an enormous despair.2 His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, recorded that Joseph exclaimed: “Oh, my God! … All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God. … How shall I appear before the Lord? Of what rebuke am I not worthy from the angel of the Most High?”3

For well over a month the Lord left Joseph in this terrible condition of remorse.4 Then came relief and the apostolic lesson. The Lord told Joseph:

“The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught. …

“For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him” (D&C 3:1, 4).

These words carefully describe what Joseph Smith had been experiencing. He had learned the exacting nature of the apostolic call and to whom the Apostle, at all cost, owes his loyalty. “Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words,” Joseph was told, “yet you should have been faithful” (D&C 3:7–8). Joseph Smith had lost access to the plates for a season and had been taught an invaluable lesson. Subsequently, the plates were returned, and his position as translator restored.

How critical were the lessons provided by the translation of the Book of Mormon as Joseph Smith grew in his apostolic calling! The Book of Mormon is the “keystone of our religion”5 because it contains so many prophetic testimonies of Christ and stands as a tangible witness of the Restoration.

Continuing Revelation and Scripture

After finishing the translation of the Book of Mormon in 1829 and organizing the Church in 1830, Joseph Smith had the opportunity to receive continuing apostolic education through the process of translating other scripture. This included three years of translating the Bible and, beginning in 1835, translating the book of Abraham. Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible expanded his understanding of the role of Old Testament prophets and New Testament Apostles. It also resulted in additional revelation, namely the book of Moses.

The book of Moses provided the Prophet with important knowledge about the Savior’s ministry, including His role in the Creation. “The Lord spake unto Moses, saying: … I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things” (Moses 2:1). Further, He said, “And worlds without number have I created; … and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33).

The book of Moses clarified Christ’s relationship to the Father in the premortal existence and reinforced the Prophet’s understanding of the ascendant power of righteousness. One of the most beautiful of all the apostolic lessons that came to Joseph Smith in this revelation was the confirmation of God’s love. It was so different from the harsh, unforgiving, and judgmental personage so many believed God to be; the book of Moses reveals a God of infinite compassion. Enoch saw that the “God of heaven … wept” (Moses 7:28) over those who would not receive Him. Wishing to know how it was possible, Enoch was given an answer that has a familiar biblical feel to it: “I [have] given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father. … Wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?” (Moses 7:33, 37; see also Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37–39).

Through the translation of the book of Moses, the Prophet also became more acquainted with the redeeming and saving power of the Savior. As the Lord said, this earth was created “by the word of my power” (Moses 1:32) for the purpose of bringing “to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Many long years before the Savior taught Thomas and the Twelve that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6), He revealed to Moses that “this is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time” (Moses 6:62).

The First Vision in the grove, the translation of the Book of Mormon, the revision of the Bible, the revelation of the book of Moses, and the translation of the book of Abraham laid the basic foundation of the Church, largely through the rapidly expanding knowledge and testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith relating to Jesus Christ.

Revelations given to him and compiled in the Doctrine and Covenants contain a wealth of knowledge concerning the Savior. One could research the numerous topics and cross-references of the Topical Guide and Guide to the Scriptures referring to Jesus Christ and still not understand the breadth of information on the Savior that the Prophet Joseph Smith brought to the world. I am grateful to know that Jesus was “in the beginning with the Father” (D&C 93:21). I am grateful to know that He “suffered these things for [me], that [I] might not suffer if [I] would repent” (D&C 19:16).

My Testimony of What the Prophet Revealed

I am grateful for yet one other thing about the Savior’s ministry that stirs my soul deeply. From studying the promises of Malachi, Moroni’s initial visit with Joseph, the Savior’s words to the Nephites, and the visit of Elijah in the Kirtland Temple, I learn that God loves His children and has provided a way for each to return to Him. I know of no doctrine more just, no teaching that gives more hope than that of redemption of the dead. I am so grateful for the revelations that teach me that the Savior’s Atonement reaches to those who have lived, loved, served, and hoped for a better day yet never heard of Jesus or had the opportunity to embrace His gospel. This knowledge alone would be sufficient to convert me to the gospel if I knew nothing else at all. Here, at least for me, is the ultimate testimony of Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

What, then, can be said of the incomparable saving power of Christ? That which Joseph Smith learned in the Sacred Grove about the power of righteousness overcoming evil foreshadows the final scene. So reveals the Lord:

“I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—

“Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment” (D&C 19:2–3).

Our own testimonies of the Savior are framed by the testimony and teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Is it any wonder then that the Prophet taught that “the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”6

Joseph Smith’s apostolic testimony of the divine reality and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, as well as his knowledge of the redemptive and saving power of the Savior, can best be seen by the Prophet’s own beautiful, powerful, and succinct witness:

“And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).

How grateful I am for the apostolic call of Joseph Smith.

 

 

 

Notes

1. See Book of Mormon Reference Companion, ed. Dennis L. Largey (2003), 457–58.

2. See Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith, ed. Preston Nibley (1958), 128–29.

3. History of Joseph Smith, 128, 129.

4. The 116 pages were lost in June 1828. In July Joseph Smith received what is now section 3 of the Doctrine and Covenants. In September the plates were returned to the Prophet. See the historical introductions to D&C 3; 10.

5. History of the Church, 4:461.

6. History of the Church, 3:30.

 

 

 

 

 

 


TOPICS: Breaking News; Other Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: braking; cult; heresy; inman; lds; lies; mormon; notbreakingnews; propaganda; religion
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To: CharlesWayneCT
But this title wasn’t a “shot” at other groups of believers.......

Really...??? Are you really serious?

A thread titled..."J. Smith...an Apostle of Jesus Christ"...isn't a "shot" at Christians????????????

Seems clear enough to me....

781 posted on 01/03/2011 12:40:03 PM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Cymbaline
I only look at the news/activism forum so as to avoid threads like this one...

I guess actually READING the title of the thread Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ was NOT an option?

782 posted on 01/03/2011 12:41:02 PM PST by Elsie
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To: xzins

Joseph Smith: founder of the Mormon movement”
____________________________________

Yes and even better “Joseph Smith: father of the Mormon movement (or Mormonism)”

It also has that political angle in there...

after all while George Washington was the “father of our country” Joey Smith wanted to be “father” of the world...

as well as president-for-life in the US and king-of-the-the-US and the world and general-of-the-glorious-armies-of-Nauvoo and savior-of-his-people...

hey if Queen Victoria could have lots of titles so could “king” Joseph..


783 posted on 01/03/2011 12:41:22 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Alamo-Girl
Alamo Girl, first let me say that I have tremendous respect for you as a political activist. I have watched you over the years and want to thank you for the countless hours you have spent compiling information for others to use in fighting for conservatism.

The doctrine was also mentioned in an exchange between DelphiUser and Colofornian on another thread which I engaged for the same reason I did here. Namely, in my view, the doctrine that God is "a" God and not "the" God is the “poison pill” which prevents peace between Christians (Catholic, Protestant, etc.) and Mormons.

I stand by my example on the other thread, God's "dad" is irrelevant to our salvation, is not mentioned in Mormons theology as anything more than a logical construct. The only reason we mention it at all is that we believe that we can be deified with Christ and Become gods. Now before anyone gets excited, the analogy is this:

You have a Dad, You have a child.

Your child doesn't like the bed time you have set, so he calls your dad to try to change bedtime.

Unless you have no spine, your child calling Grandpa will not change Bedtime. For the record, God has a spine, so no changing the rules by calling up the chain (if there even is one)

Authority comes from creation:
God created us, he has the power of every creator over his creation, he is our God, we belong to him. He needs to ask no one permission for what he does to / with us. there is no higher authority than God.

Mormons sometimes theorize on things from the eternities, Adam's relationship with God, existence outside of time, etc.

None of the theories is "required" belief by Mormons even though Apostles and Prophets of the church have proposed theories.

We have one God. We worship the God of Abraham and of Issac and of Jacob.

We do not accept the Trinity which we believe is a point of apostasy that was prophesied in the Bible. This is a big contention point with many protestants and Catholics, some of whom claim that acceptance of the Dogma of the Trinity is required to be a Christian.

We do believe in being saved by Grace, we also believe in works to both show our faith, and increase our faith.

You can separate yourselves form us all you want, what you cannot do is separate us from God. God decides who is his, it's not a popularity contest. The belief system with the most followers does not "win". People with the "winning belief system" are not all automatically saved. Salvation is an individual thing because God will judge us by our heart, by our faith and yes, by our works, the Bible says so.

Alamo Girl, Go with God, I know you don't agree with my theology, gut my prayer of well wishing and blessing is sincere just the same.

Delph
784 posted on 01/03/2011 12:43:02 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Cymbaline
By the way, I would suggest in the future making threads like this for LDS Caucus, unless you like reading page after page of mud slinging from the usual suspects.

I missed the MUD!

Which reply # has it?

And... why are you STILL in this thread?

785 posted on 01/03/2011 12:43:02 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

Apparently your definition differs. :)


786 posted on 01/03/2011 12:43:25 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: restornu

Hello Steno!


787 posted on 01/03/2011 12:44:32 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

Personally, I’m all in favor of fighting back against lynch mobs. Too bad the prisoners didn’t have a Gatling gun or a few grenades.


788 posted on 01/03/2011 12:45:36 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Elsie

Yes..Do not take religious instruction from False Prophets or Doctrines.....It surely does not mean throw a Mormon person out of your house.....

You know I use to have trouble understanding this quote from Ghandi:

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Ghandi

I do now....

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.

Arrogance and Condemnation is not of the *Christ*


789 posted on 01/03/2011 12:46:11 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Elsie

I miss OMM. He was at least honest.


790 posted on 01/03/2011 12:46:49 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu; dragonblustar; reaganaut

My relationship with the Church started with the Book of Mormon
______________________________________

Didnt Reaganaut just say 2 minutes before in Post #562 that “It is about a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ alone” ???

Courtesy PING to Reaganaut


791 posted on 01/03/2011 12:47:16 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: restornu
To receive a witness from the Holy Ghost not some cuties pie!

WHY won't the HG give YOU a 'witness' as to the UNTRUEness of PRESBYTERIANism?

Have you made Him MAD?

Any logically thinking person would want to know what made a PRESBYTERIAN lady like yourself decide to leave it.

792 posted on 01/03/2011 12:47:33 PM PST by Elsie
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To: ejonesie22

See post #789


793 posted on 01/03/2011 12:47:59 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: reaganaut

I suppose it is hard to see many doctrinal errors when you are in the LDS. Bless God for bringing you out of the LDS FRiend! :)


794 posted on 01/03/2011 12:49:13 PM PST by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR to pimp your blog!!!)
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To: Normandy

Exactly. Which is why the faith of the LDS is put in the ‘Church’ rather than Christ.

I know what the LDS believe, but that doesn’t make it true.

If the 3 Nephites are still here, then there never was an apostasy. Period.

Besides which, Christ Himself said there would not be one, that He would be with us always.

I know you have a lot invested in Mormonism, but that doesn’t make it true. Mormonism is a lie that will send you to Hell, no matter how polite you are (and I do appreciate your polite responses).


795 posted on 01/03/2011 12:49:24 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Normandy; aMorePerfectUnion

Damnation is a HUGE downside.


796 posted on 01/03/2011 12:49:54 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: T Minus Four

LOL. My luck I would be. Still trying to get on SLC’s
“hit list” though...well there is always tomorrow.


797 posted on 01/03/2011 12:50:50 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; Normandy

WORTH A REPOST:

To: Normandy

“I have been blessed in so many ways. I just don’t see the downside.”

EXACTLY! How could you see the downside?

You are in a cult that is based 100% on subjective
feelings, with no objective truth. By necessity, you
must sweep aside all else, rely on feelings and believe
the mormon meme that there was an apostacy, a revelation
to Smith and a restoration with new books. You must believe
those things entirely on feelings.

How could you see the downside? Can’t.

I wish and pray more for you.

ampu


798 posted on 01/03/2011 12:52:49 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Ripliancum
 
Of course, but just because Jim or anyone else doesn't consider us Christians, denying self professing Christians a Caucus forum while allowing all others seems out of harmony with the spirit of the Forum.
 
HYPOCRITES usually cannot see themselves in a mirror.

 


Style Guide - The Name of the Church

The official name of the Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This full name was given by revelation from God to Joseph Smith in 1838.

While the term "Mormon Church" has long been publicly applied to the Church as a nickname, it is not an authorized title, and the Church discourages its use.

When writing about the Church, please follow these guidelines:

  • In the first reference, the full name of the Church is preferred: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".
  • Please avoid the use of "Mormon Church", "LDS Church" or the "Church of the Latter-day Saints".
  • When a shortened reference is needed, the terms "the Church" or "the Church of Jesus Christ" are encouraged.
  • When referring to Church members, the term "Latter-day Saints" is preferred, though "Mormons" is acceptable.
  • "Mormon" is correctly used in proper names such as the Book of Mormon, Mormon Tabernacle Choir or Mormon Trail, or when used as an adjective in such expressions as "Mormon pioneers."
  • The term "Mormonism" is acceptable in describing the combination of doctrine, culture and lifestyle unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  • When referring to people or organizations that practice polygamy, the terms "Mormons," "Mormon fundamentalist," "Mormon dissidents," etc. are incorrect. The Associated Press Stylebook notes: "The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other ... churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith's death."
 

http://beta-newsroom.lds.org/article/use-of-the-word-mormon-in-news-reports
 


 

 
Speaking of HYPOCRITES...
 

 New President Thomas S. Monson, is the highest ranking official in The Mormon Church.


Left Back Row: Elder Richard G. Scott (1988) * Elder Robert D. Hales (1994)  Elder Jeffrey R. Holland (1994) * President Henry B. Eyring (1995) Second Counselor, First Presidency since 2007  Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf (2004) Newly called Second Counsel

WHY won't these LOVING and CARING men reach out to the people who actually follow MORMON scripture (D&C 132) and ALLOW them to be called MORMON?

 

Since the SLC hierarchy is afraid of the Government and NOT of GOD, THEY should be the ones who CANNOT be called MORMONs: NOT the FUNDAMENTALISTs!


799 posted on 01/03/2011 12:53:37 PM PST by Elsie
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To: greyfoxx39
Delph As to this thread being moved, and your now open hostility toward a religion whose adherents are generally conservative, well it does not bode well for this forum. Not because Mormons will break you or anything silly like that, but because “who is next” will be on people's minds and as soon as censorship is the norm on the forum, well other forums will get traffic that was here.

"Censorship is the norm on this forum"? Hardly. A few years ago when posters who debated the rampant mormon proselytizing were being banned and suspended, where was your defense of "free speech"? I particularly remember YOUR part in baiting "antis" into responses that got them zotted.

I only know of one anti who Got zotted in a debate with me, and for that I have expressed regret many times.

As for free speech, there are rules here, the consequences for breaking those rules is also known. Enforcement should be universal and predictable, not aggressive and capricious.

Your prediction sounds more like a wish as far as forum traffic is concerned.

It's not a prediction, it's a fear.

The importance mormons claim for their church and for themselves is laughable.

Many religions say that about all other religions, yawn.

If you would bother to read this thread, you would find that the mormon message is being soundly rejected by the majority of FReepers that have posted here.

Without trying to read all the hundreds of posts, I will readily concede that the majority of the posts on this thread are negative toward my religion... So?

Jesus would not have won a popular vote in his mortality either.

This was a caucus thread which it is highly unlikely I would ever have posted on that was summarily moved to breaking news, and stripped of it's caucus status. No due process, not moved to the back room, the rules were broken, and at the highest level of this forum.

Are you comfortable with that?

Delph
800 posted on 01/03/2011 12:55:00 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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