Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Well, remember there was no such thing as hell when Satan first rebelled and he did not and does not have omniscience. Satan was blinded by his own pride in thinking he could be a better God than God. Mankind is also blinded by his pride into thinking he doesn't need God or can go to be with God on his own terms. That is why God says he hates pride more than any other sin.
I have been reading things like that, too, which suggest the Scripture is subordinate to the Catholic Church's teaching.
But Cronos' reply to this post is very encouraging. Thank you, dear Cronos!
I was trying to reconcile your denial of the infallibility of Scripture with what Rome has historically held to, such as what LAMENTABILI SANE Pius X taught in condemning the proposition that “Divine inspiration does not extend to all of Sacred Scriptures so that it renders its parts, each and every one, free from every error.”
But as noted in post http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2657209/posts?page=2190#2190, i do realize there is an internal debate over whether “the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.” (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm#107) refers to all of Scripture, which was the more historical position, or only that which pertains to salvation (and where one draws the line is an interpretive matter).
As for “Why do you guys keep going on about Rome?” and your statement that “the Church..is not headquartered at Rome,” it is because your fellow RCs basically tell us that it is (capital C) and the rest need to submit to here. One prolific RC poster recently told me that for a liberal Catholic like John Kerry to leave the RCC and become a conservative evangelical would be like the fall of Adam and a step toward death.
And that implicit assent to be given to Rome when it has officially defined something. I think that answers the question why we go on about Rome.
Regarding your distinction btwn “infallible and “inerrant,’ I read (http://www.examiner.com/apologetics-theology-in-rapid-city/nt-wright-s-dismissal-of-the-importance-of-scripture-s-infallibility) that according to the Oxford English Dictionary, it was not until 1837 that the English word inerrant was used in the modern sense of exempt from error, free from mistake, infallible. Thus, as JI Packer wrote, “Previously, the preferred term for expressing the conviction that Scripture never misinforms or misleads was infallibility…” (Inerrancy and the Church, 144),
As for printed words not being infallible in the sense that the RC magisterium is said to be, (exemption from the possibility of error) Script-ure is affirmed to be wholly inspired of God, and what was written sometimes had no oral stage.
If you are referring to the need for a interpreter, as my 2190 post points out, “infallible” pronouncements themselves need some interpretation.
But the problem is not that the interpretation of these words may be infallible in themselves, but the formulaic assured status Rome infallibly claims she has as the uniquely supreme interpreter.
What do you mean?
Thank you for that beautiful Psalm, dear sister in Christ, and thank you for your insights!
How do you know? When was hell created?
Satan was blinded by his own pride in thinking he could be a better God than God.
I must read up on my Milton.
Mankind is also blinded by his pride into thinking he doesn't need God or can go to be with God on his own terms. That is why God says he hates pride more than any other sin.
Now do you understand why we think of the Reformation as we do?
That is what I am seeing as well, though it's often framed in many different ways and from as many differing resources..the bottom line is they all same the same thing and looks like this is where they stood.. and remain even to this day.
That is what I am seeing as well, though it's often framed in many different ways and from as many differing resources..the bottom line is they all same the same thing and looks like this is where they stood.. and remain even to this day.
You may wish to get your eyes checked. This is not the teaching of Christ's Church. In spite of everything we've posted, you guys still come up with this twaddle?
Why don't you lay it on me yourself?
I particularly loved this line:
What does the Church teach if not that Christ died for our iniquities and yet that he was the Passover Lamb?
"For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed." [1 Cor. 5:7, NIV]
The first indication is by John the Baptist (John 1:29) who calls Jesus the lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.
That's a novel idea for Judaism, given that no sin offering could atone for the sins not yet committed.
The more important imagery is the lamb whose death and whose blood provided the seal of a covenant
The Torah is given as the ever-lasting covenant. That which is ever-lasting cannot be replaced or fulfilled. Also the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah is for the House of Judah and the House of Israel (in other words, for the Jews only), but it's still the Old Covenant except that it is written on the hearts so that no one needs to be taught to keep it.
Just as the Israelites ate the lamb as a seal of the old covenant, we too must eat the lamb of God (Jesus's body in the Eucharist) as the seal of the new covenant
Again, here we see almost identical beliefs in other religions, to wit: the Egyptians ate their man-god Osiris in a form of a wafer; he was also believed to have died and resurrected, and was announced by three wise men, the "messenger" star, etc.
The "upside down" of the OT practice is that the Passover lamb is not a Temple sacrifice, but is prepared in a household (like a Thanksgiving turkey), and not by a priest (i.e. it is not sacramental), and that Judaism does not condone human sacrifice! (cf Leviticus18:21, 24-25; Deuteronomy 18:10; Jeremiah 7:31, 19: 5; Ezekiel 23:37, 39).
Besides, Passover lamb was not a sin sacrifice; in other words, the lamb did not die because of Israel's sins (especially future ones!). Nowhere in the OT is any sacrifice seen as one that atones for sins in the future.
Also the Passover lamb's bones cannot be broken and the NT makes a comparison to Jesus' bones not being broken as a result, saying thereby scriptures are fulfilled [cf John 19:36; Ex 12:46].
But John's obvious cherry-picking leaves out, conveniently, that the same Exodus 12 says that the lamb must not be blemished, whereas Jesus is described in the Gospels as having been horribly "blemished" by Roman torture. How come some things in the scriptures apply and others don't?
Likewise, the same OT makes it clear that sin sacrifice had to be administered by a Jewish priest, not pagan soldiers. The blood of the sacrificed animal would be sprinkled on the altar and on the curtain by a Temple priest.
Yes, some exceptions are wilful but most are not.
Also, the sacrifice of Christ IS for unwitting sin (Adam's) -- repentence is still necessary in the Christian world for our non-venial sins. We are not Calvinists to believe that we should not repent.
I am glad you noticed that. The Protestants seem to compeltely miss that point.
They were thrown out of Spain , France and Portugal among other places for their mischief ... apparently they were hurting Roman Catholics then too.
They certainly have done plenty of mischief in South America with their Liberation Theology and murdered plenty of Roman Catholics there too.
They have been accused of poisoning a Pope also after he tried to suppress the Jesuits .
Think about that just a minute THEY HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF POISONING A POPE
The more I read of your responses the more evident it becomes why you cannot see the truth...even when it’s clearly explained. Rather you do oppose it at every turn, and use scripture to oppose scripture. Seems to me another did just that as well. You know just enough of the truth to distort and make the claims which you do. That of course you are free to do, but it’s become very difficult to take your comments seriously. The obvious is all too just that.
May you eventually recognize the truth and take hold of it for yourself....and when you do you will see as you ought to see...clearly and distinctly.
No, that was not your point, HD, you claim it is a "free" choice. But there is no free choice in predestination, period.
The only way for you to make that choice is for God to open up your eyes through faith that He gives you.
You don't make the choice. The choice has bene made for you according to your religion. It's not a choice; it's predestined, predetermined, preprogrammed, like death. Dying is not an option, or a choice; its a certainty.
Saved Screwtape...I also love C.S.....I remember my first reading...”Mere Chrisitanity”....it stretched my young Christin mind...forced me to slow reading down in order to understand.
We’re in the direct path of the “icey mix” and snow area that’s coming! Yikes! Freezing rain and sleet and snow! It isn’t going to be pretty here. And we still are snow covered from the last storm too. Though roads are clear.
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