Skip to comments.The Not So Secret Rapture
Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicles occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Like everyone who seeks the truth, I throw out 'bones for the dogs 'just to see who yaps'.
In fact, the next story I'm working on has the working title; The Day "The PADRE 'Nopu** socked it to the West Virginia National Guard".
They don't. The Pharaoh had no choice. It's like dying; your Bible says it's predestined, and Paul says it God's will, not yours:
Now, you may wish to believe otherwise, but your Bible says it's not your will or choice.
The topic was not apostasy but who determines faith, God or man.
Do you think Judas has a "choice"? LOL!
and Matthew 18:6...Mark 9:42...Luke 17:2
It is debatable what the writers mean by σκανδαλίζω (scandalizo), the Greek word which is found in those verses. The KJV says "offend" rather than [make them] "stumble".
At any rate, obviously the synoptic writers had a different opinion from Paul who said "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."[Romans 9:16], fwiw.
“The Church was not persecuting.”
Innocent VIII’s crusade against the Waldenses wasn’t persecution?
I’d like to see your dictionary definition of what persecution is and see whether a murderous crusade would fit.
“What lengths would you go to to stop another from going over to satan?”
Prayerfully, only those Christ taught his followers. Try as I might I don’t find killing ANYONE allowed and if you do you haven’t said so yet. Is there a reason?
[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1
Compare that to Jim Jones and Applewhite and David Koresh whose followers literally died with them. And compare that to L.Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith.
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. - Matthew 22:42
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - Matthew 16:15-18
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Jude 9
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matt 4:7
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matt 4:10
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63
You: Oh boy. Our imitation of Christ involves giving up of ourselves, but we do need to sweat the details. If we worship the Mormon God, for instance, will the Christian God understand that we actually meant well, so please don't hold it against us?
Also, you give the Church the glory for defining the Trinity. That glory belongs to God. He revealed that Truth in Scripture:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: - Matthew 28:19
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9
The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Psalms 12:6-7
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. - Isaiah 55:11
you: I have no idea what you mean here.
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - Revelation 1:7-8
Pharaoh did have a choice, at first. He was the one who initially hardened his heart.
God wishes all to come to repentance, but sometimes He gives people what they want.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Acts 17:24-31 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for
“’In him we live and move and have our being’;
as even some of your own poets have said,
“’For we are indeed his offspring.’
Being then Gods offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
But Mark the catholics I know do indeed believe that it all must pass thru the church and their teachings...I have yet to meet one catholic who knows more than attendance at Mass and none know the scriptures. They don’t understand what “relationship” with Christ is about...let alone the Holy Spirits workings in their life. It’s all about ‘practicing catholicism’. So yes, those I’ve met do believe it all comes thru the church.
Sad to say, but it appears that FRoman Catholics are seriously out of touch with mainstream, grassroots Catholicism.
They don’t seem to have any idea what the average lay Catholic thinks, knows, and believes. We former Catholics keep trying to tell them and they either deny it or change the subject or accuse us of making it up, or we’re *poorly catechized*.
ANYTHING but admit that we know what we’re talking about from honest to goodness, real life experience and conversations.
WE’RE not the ones who don’t know what’s going on in the Catholic church.
It is difficult to understand why they cannot see their memebership is as lax as they are. Oh they may recite the Rosary and mention what their Priest might say. But do have dialogue about scriptures, or why they believe what they do..it’s always about what the church says. They do practice Churchianity rather than Christianity.
Of course there are those who are sincere in their faith and do study...but I’m speaking of those I have met.
Thanks. I loved the Screwtape Letters, but do not remember this part. It was quite some time ago. I “Favorites” it and will definitely read it in its entirety.
I sure as hades wouldn't torture them! Ever hear of the Holy Spirit, and do you know why he is in the world? (hint John 16:7-9)
But God made the final decision. My question was who makes the final decision if you will believe or not? Man or God and betty boop said she, of course! If that's the case then God is a mere provider and man is the final decider. That's not what Christianity teaches and that's not what your own scripture says.
God wishes all to come to repentance, but sometimes He gives people what they want
What about those who can't wish? Paul says he was predestined to preach the gospel; God decided for him (set him apart) when he was born. What sort of a choice is that and where does man's will come in? And what does it count for?
Who decides if man shall believe and be saved or not believed and be lost? Man or God? Who's in charge?
Depends on what you mean by "Reformed Theology."
Now that’s a BIG cat!
Now, Mark, you have been corrected on this many times. Here is just ONE verse that Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
Does that sound like "trinity" to you? You want me to post the other ones or do you still have them from the LAST time we discussed this?