Skip to comments.The Collapse of Cultural Catholicism
Posted on 01/28/2011 9:32:34 AM PST by marshmallow
Shery Weddell at the St Catherine of Siena Institute reports that 32% of Americans raised Catholic abandon the identity altogether by their mid twenties. An additional 38% retain the identity but rarely practice their faith. 30% of those who call themselves Catholic attend Mass only once a month. On a given Sunday only about 15.6% of American Catholics attend Mass.
What is the reason for these disastrous statistics? Basically because for the last forty years Catholics themselves have not taught Catholicism to their children. They've taught 'American Catholicism' which is a watered down blend of sentimentalism, political correctness, community activism and utilitarianism. In other words, "Catholicism is about feeling good about yourself, being just to others and trying to change the world." The next generation have drawn the obvious conclusion that you don't need to go to Mass to do all that. You can feel good about yourself much more effectively with a good book from the self help shelf, or by attending a personal development seminar. You can be involved in making the world a better place without going to church.
If only 15% of Catholics go to Mass on a given Sunday, look around and see how many of them are old. Even the 15% who are there won't be there for very long.
The solution is simple: we must return to the supernatural realities of the historic faith and evangelize like the Apostles of old. The big difference is that the Apostles knew their targets were pagans and the pagans knew they weren't Christians. We're dealing with a huge population of Americans (Catholics and Protestants alike) who are pagan but who think they're 'good Christians.' It is very difficult to evangelize people who already think they're fine just as they are. We don't know what we don't know, and the vast majority of poorly catechized, lazy and worldly Catholics aren't aware that there's anything wrong.
What will it take for us to wake up?
The mention of the word “Protestant” by definition means this can’t be labeled a caucus thread, even if no Protestant practices were specifically mentioned.
I made a suggestion to marshmallow that perhaps the thread should have been labeled caucus and that seemed to cause a free for all, which was not my intent.
So what are the precise guidelines for open vs. caucus threads?
Actually, it says no such thing, it states that a huge number of Americans [both Catholic and Protestant] are pagans but think they are good Christians.
So I don’t think it says what you said it states.
While I don’t pretend to be able to judge the eternal destiny of any individual, I think it is also true that many in the U.S., who profess to be Catholic or Protestant, embrace views that are in essence pagan [abortion on demand, euthansia, same-sex marriage, moral relativism], etc which is what I think is the point Fr. Longeneker was making.
I have made the appeal to our host, Jim Robinson.
The issue is personal. Faith has always been so. For you to decide that the attack on my Faith is okay, moderator, and the defense of same is beyond what you deem valid, cannot be determnimed by any other than our host. It is personal. You, ‘moderator’ decided that an attack on a widow’s husband was okay, but ‘bovine scat’ was undeserved?
You aren’t moderating at this point, but taking sides.
Resign. For you aren’t moderating anymore.
A historical fact is not enough to disqualify an article from being a caucus, e.g. Martin Luther was a priest who died in the 1500's.
Which post is an attack on a Freeper widow’s husband?
The RCC just couldnt compete with the Americanism they openly despised for much of our history. Once the the flock left their respective ethnic ghettos and became happy assimilated white folks, neither the Novus Ordum hokum nor any conservative counter movement could bring them back. It doesnt help that most Catholics by ancestry happen to be raised in regions of the country where religious fervor of any kind is frowned upon.
Why do you think that is ?
Don’t even try to hang this on the Protestants as both Spain and France did a good job of wiping Protestants from their country so you can’t blame it on them there .
The truth is that the true Gospel is not being preached in Roman Catholic churches and as their people get educated they realize their in no substance in what is being preached in their pulpits .
Resign. You are no longer an impartial reviewer of the threads.
It may have been the point he was making, but by mentioning Protestants as potentially pagan he opens the door for a reply from Protestants, e.g. “We are not pagan because pagans believe ...”
I suppose it would depend on the definition.
Personally, the RC’s win that one hands down by a wide margin.
The RC tones get quickly fiercely harshly personally assaultive, personally derisive, arrogant in the worst sense of the term etc.
I use hyperbole a lot to highlight stuff—certainly I do.
I particularly like to highlight double standard assaultiveness and prissy RELIGIOUS ARROGANCE. That’s likely not going to change. When it’s missing, I have nothing on that score to highlight in my usual style.
Yes, some of my cohorts see it as their Christian duty to cry foul at every opportunity against every perceived RC infraction of Biblical truth etc. I understand their perspective and don’t particularly fault them for that.
We have been treated similarly by a contingent of RC’s from the beginning of FR. Somehow, y’all always seem to ignore that fact.
Personally, I try to pick my battles and reserve my time, energy and colorful fonts for a very limited criteria of outrageousness. And, I try to be quite even tempered/toned and civil unless and until the other side crosses that line outrageously.
Otherwise, my colorful fonts and exclamations are about what I see as outrageously UNBIBLICAL and eternally destructive-to-souls theological differences in belief and practice.
A huge chunk of RC’s ARE DETERMINED TO TAKE *THAT* PERSONALLY and to respond in the most mean-spirited, vengeful ways one can get away with and beyond. Wellllll Whoop-T-Doooo! How childish.
Would I make as much noise about some RC stuff as some of my Proddy cohorts? Probably not. Yet I understand their doing so. They persistently do so in MUCH MORE CIVIL terms than the RC’s do and certainly than the RC’s reply with.
And there’s no comparison in terms of the amount of whining and running to authorities on the part of the RC’s compared to Proddys. That’s obvious.
On the whole, I think it was unfortunate that this thread did not remove the Proddy thing in that paragraph and deal with the topic as a caucus.
Given what the RC’s dished out, they deserved what they got in response.
I don’t know that FAIR is fairly assessed. RC’s have assaulted Proddys routinely on Proddy threads all my years here. So what. That’s what the net is about. It is a fierce exchange of ideas and feelings BY DESIGN and preference.
RC’s can grow up, accept it, roll with the punches, get a thicker skin or stay on the caucus threads only.
The RM has repeatedly made that clear—though he rarely enforces the thin-skin criteria.
However, RC’s will NOT do so. They seem to be compulsively driven like moths to a flame.
WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL FINE—then if they can’t stand the heat—they should jolly well stay out of the kitchen!
And what about the UK, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, the Netherlands [Dutch], Germany [other than Bavaria, which is still very strongly Catholic] etc which are all countries with majority Protestants and are worse off in terms of Church attendance that most of the Catholic Countries in Europe [save France and Spain which are trending like the Protestant countries].
Maybe you aren't up on history much, or maybe you think 230 years is a long time, but autocracy or despotism is pretty much the default for humanity whether it's been under paganism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxy, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., etc.
I disagree with you on this. That does not mention any specific belief and clearly is speaking about Protestant and Catholics in name only. A true Protestant can not be Pagan. So actual Protestant beliefs have no bearing on that statement.
A belief is a specific teaching adhered to by a member of a faith community. If it had said that Protestant churches that support abortion are heirs to the pagan cult of Moloch, then yes these people would have the task of making sure that their branch of Protestantism was not grouped in with that claim. Also as I said the article could stand quite well without that part.
So may I assume that it is permissable to go into a thread which is obviously meant to be a peaceful discussion on internal matters and let the participants know they are condemned to hell for their stubborn rejection of Catholicism (not that I actually believe that.)? Or to otherwise disrupt them and attack their beliefs. Even if they make no mention of any specific Catholic teaching?
I do appreciate your patience in replying.
Post 121, Mod.
And if you can’t figure that out, you are not worthy of the name.
I have several times mentioned your All cap posts directed at me to no avail. I don’t think I have ever pinged you in my 4 years here, or if I have it is minimal.
You ping me with “all caps”, and you consistently do this, which according to internet protocol, is an angry, yelling and vitrolic form of posting.
Did you actually READ the article? I would guess not, but I could be mistaken.
However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, you obviously missed THIS line in the articleWe're dealing with a huge population of Americans (Catholics and Protestants alike) who are pagan but who think they're 'good Christians.'
Defend that, Mod.
Jim, it isn't right. There are few things that will cause me to take up arms. This is one. Get rid of this “Religion Moderator”.
It isn't worthy.
Yes I read it. As I stated I do not consider that to be talking about actual faithful Protestants but Protestants in name only. Obviously those who are actually Protestant who believe Scripture and hold to the orthodox version of their faith are not Pagan.
But I would not do that because I would be ashamed to say I had done so on the Day of Judgment.