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Old scandal article
Skip to comments.Pope includes Hindu verses in prayers on Good Friday
Posted on 02/08/2011 7:12:21 AM PST by Gamecock
HINDUS HAVE applauded Pope Benedict for including verse from ancient Hindu scripture Upanishads in the Good Friday Meditations and Prayers led by him at Roman Colosseum.
Acclaimed Hindu statesman Rajan Zed, in a statement in Nevada (USA) today, said that it was a remarkable gesture from Pope and invited him to study more ancient Hindu scriptures, which were very rich in philosophical thought. He or other Hindu scholars would gladly provide the help and resources in this regard, if asked, Zed added.
Zed, who is president of Universal Society of Hinduism, also commended His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI for inclusion of a verse from Indias Nobel Laureate Rabindranath Tagores Gitanjali and reference to peace icon Mahatma Gandhi in these prayers.
This years 'Way of the Cross at the Colesseum' Meditations and Prayers on Good Friday, led by Pope, included well-known verse from Brahadaranyakopanishad (Lead me from the unreal to the real, from darkness to light, from death to immortality), line from Tagores Gitanjali (Give me the strength to make my love fruitful in service) and reference to Mahatma Gandhi.
Rajan Zed stressed that all religions should work together for a just and peaceful world. Dialogue would bring us mutual enrichment, he added.
Pope Benedict heads the Roman Catholic Church, which is the largest of the Christian denominations. Hinduism, oldest and third largest religion of the world, has about one billion adherents and moksha (liberation) is its ultimate goal.
Peter's life and marriage preceded his Apostleship just as the married Anglican clergy who have been accepted into the Catholic church.
St. Paul was a celibate Catholic priest. Are you impugning him for forsaking a family in order to give more to God and His flock?
That is not scripturally based. That is not even finessing, it is a manifestation of your German Law and Protestant culture you are seeking to impose on the discussion. Nowhere are we forbidden to pray to the saints, in fact quite the opposite is true.
Oh man I don't even know where to begin with that one. LOL!
I could be here all day and into tomorrow and the next and the next posting item by item deviations - LOL. Its easier to just put up a chart or something. I did find one that I checked the 'banned' list for, and I don't see anywhere on that list that chart from biblestudycharts.com are a 'no-no' so here goes:
A Timeline of.... You will need to go to page 2, I don't intend for you to purchase the chart!
If banned, please accept apologies in advance as I did check the list!
I would suggest that the reason most Catholics don't believe their magisterium deviates in any way from the Word of God is that they are not allowed to see any! And any that are seen are explained, spun, dusted, cleaned, whatever, just so long as THE MAGISTERIUM IS NEVER, EVER QUESTIONED!
It all gets back to AUTHORITY again NL. Is it, the magisterium, decrees, catechisms, sacraments, et al. Or is it Holy Scripture? So I'll direct this question to you also:
Who, or what is your FINAL AUTHORITY on matters of faith?
Remember, Scripture must be the FINAL authority on any other resources used. The other resources must NEVER contradict or deviate from that Scripture.
I do know what you mean.
It can be exhausting and maddening and saddening.
As I said, that is why I carefully choose to whom and to what I respond.
No, you would be here much longer listing the areas where you have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the harmony of the Catholic doctrine with Scripture.
"It all gets back to AUTHORITY again NL."
No, it gets down to the truth. Scripture, like any complex concept or document requires an explanation of context and a definition of the terms used in its exploration. Catholics rely on something more that the authority of self-serving "reformers", undereducated storefront pastors and gut feel to get our context and definitions. We go directly to the original editors and publishers of Scripture and to those who kept Scripture alive for 2000 years.
Can you name a single thing Catholics are "not allowed to see". After all, it is not the Catholics who redacted the bible and relegated the Synoptic Gospels to something intended only for the Jews.
I hear you!
He just pulled out the “sola scriptura” card....been there, done that...sigh.
1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
If the correct authority is being followed, truth will always be present.
If the wrong authority is being followed, you can't know truth from error.
And I notice you didn't answer the question specifically Your statement, "We go directly to the original editors and publishers of Scripture and to those who kept Scripture alive for 2000 years" leads me to believe your authority ISN'T the Word of God itself, but rather the Magisterium.
Are you suggesting that God is incapable of letting His truth be known to men through Scripture without another authority to authenticate it? If so, then I would respond, "If God wants to give His Word in written form without the need of another authority to authenticate it, that is within His power to do whatever He decrees." I would also respond, "Why would God need to have fallen men authenticate His Word?" Wouldn't that strip Him of His Power and His Authority and His Glory??? I think so.
I would also ask, "Why does the Roman Catholic assume that the only alternative to sola Scriptura is the Magesterium of Rome?" There are numerous churches that claim infallible authority and Rome is just one of them. The Eastern Orthodox, the Mormons, the Jehovahs Witnesses, and every cult on the planet also claims infallibility and the sole authority for their group.
I place no limits on the abilities of God and also believe in the Scripture when it says:
Luke 4:12 And Jesus answered and said to him, "It is said, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'
Deuteronomy 6:16 Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah.
Matthew 4:7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
It is testing the Lord to assume that it is OK to ignore the resources available and presume that the Holy Spirit has implanted n you all you need to know to interpret Scripture. That would imply that Scripture is not necessary since God could have implanted all knowledge of Scripture in you.
I do not believe that He does not work through the Magisterium to provide the education and references necessary to facilitate my personal understanding. I also do not believe that you or anyone else came to your knowledge of Scripture, and the basic language and comprehension skills necessary completely independent of any human input.
Don't you believe what Jesus says? We don't need men to teach us. The Holy Spirit sent from God teaches us what we need to know. But one has to have the Holy Spirit to begin with.
John 16:13-15 13When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 6Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9But, as it is written,
"What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him"
10these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11For who knows a persons thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
14The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
If I could predict the stock market with the same ease and certainty in which I can predict the path of these “debates”, I would be a wealthy woman. INDEED:)
That is beside the point. No one is suggesting that having scripture as the final authority ignores or doesn't use any other resources or input from the Holy Spirit.
What has been said repeatedly is that NO OTHER RESOURCE must be the FINAL authority. When the other resources don't measure up to the revealed Word of God they are to be rejected. The Holy Spirit will NOT contradict Himself or teach heretical doctrines.
A catholic who continues to blindly follow a magisterium even WHEN THEY ARE CONTRADICTING REVEALED SCRIPTURE, or EVEN THEY BEGIN TO TEACH HERESY AS TRUTH (like Hinduism in a Catholic mass for instance) THAT'S putting God to the test!
And you will feel a burning in the bosom!
I would discern that you believe in all that you find in Sacred Scripture.
Therefore, if you say that “We don’t need men to teach us”, how does your statement explain what is written in James 3:1:
“Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers; you should realize that those of us who do so will be called to a stricter account”.
This is from the Bible.
Obviously, according to the Bible, there ARE those whose calling it is to teach—and whose calling will also demand a stricter accounting.
Nope, always gets back to authority. If the correct authority is being followed, truth will always be present.
If the wrong authority is being followed, you can't know truth from error.
And I notice you didn't answer the question specifically Your statement, "We go directly to the original editors and publishers of Scripture and to those who kept Scripture alive for 2000 years" leads me to believe your authority ISN'T the Word of God itself, but rather the [bureaucratic, political, power-mongering, old-boys club, theological-elite Magicsterical].
Are you suggesting that God is incapable of letting His truth be known to men through Scripture without another authority to authenticate it?
If so, then I would respond, "If God wants to give His Word in written form without the need of another authority to authenticate it, that is within His power to do whatever He decrees." I would also respond, "Why would God need to have fallen men authenticate His Word?" Wouldn't that strip Him of His Power and His Authority and His Glory??? I think so.
I would also ask, "Why does the Roman Catholic assume that the only alternative to sola Scriptura is the Magesterium of Rome?"
I know teacher, I know:
There are numerous churches that claim infallible authority and Rome is just one of them. The Eastern Orthodox, the Mormons, the Jehovahs Witnesses, and every cult on the planet also claims infallibility and the sole authority for their group.
. . . with your excellent points.
What an excellent description of the various cliques of the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School Of Theology, Reality Mangling, Chronic Professional Blaming, Wailing and Whining Institute Cult's INQUISITIONAL Maryolators hereon!
There is no ignore function, so I must just do so on my own.
Please do not consider any non response from me to be concession to you as that would be wrong.
I choose not to engage with you.
What is blind is refusing to consider anything other that what your gut instincts are telling you about what Scripture means. Looking for learned and contextual is the antithesis of blindly following.
Of course, the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School Of aheology, Reality Mangling, Chronic Professional Blaming, Wailing and Whining Cult's psychophants worshiping the Fatima ET personage will not be likely to learn much from such excellent Biblical points--even when cited by their own social and organizational stars. None are so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
And, if the offical pronouncements coming out of the Vatican Cult's observatory offices are any clue, the Vatican Cult is getting all set to give the fallen angel critters a LOT MORE respect and approval.
May God have mercy on souls who REALLY WANT to KNOW HIS TRUTHS.
That’s a great ‘Timeline’ link you posted. And the conclusion sums it up truthfully.
Clearly the Vatcian Cult's farcical notions have taken a nose dive to new lower depths of hell's deceptions with such an assertion.
I wonder why they just don't characteristically brazenly toss even their rubberized pseudo-'Bible's aside and claim that all truth now is based on White Hankys delivered from the Fatima ET personage by motherships.
Whatever suits your biases and sensibilities.
God is the only one you need be accountable to, imho.
Nexium would work for that.
It boggles my mind how anyone can read that timeline and not run screaming from the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School Of Theology, Reality Mangling, Chronic Professional Blaming, Wailing and Whining Cult.
That's what God tells us in the Bible.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Obviously, according to the Bible, there ARE those whose calling it is to teachand whose calling will also demand a stricter accounting.
Yup. And teachers can help speed the growth process up. But the best teachers in the world aren't going to make any difference without the enlightening of he Holy Spirit because spiritual things are foolishness to the natural man, the man without the Spirit.
It still begs the question that “we don’t need men to teach us.”
It is clear that men—in reaching out to others with the Gospel—can and do teach.
Even so, James gave his warning to “those (among the brethren) that do so.”
HaHa, good one.
ALL flavors of RELIGIONS have a fierce tendency to do that . . .
yet when they get fossilized and endure over a long period of time . . . it gets really horrific.
It all evens out in the end.
I think we're about to leave.
That would sure be my preference.
I want the FIRST elevator
I never said that, please don't put into my text what I did not say. I personally use commentaries and study aids all the time.
What I said was:
If any teaching CONTRADICTS Scripture it is TO BE REJECTED as Scripture is the FINAL AUTHORITY on truth from error. I can't make it any clearer than that. To get back to the point of this thread:
When HINDUISM is MINGLED with the GOSPEL - IT IS heresy and should be not only a red flag, but a warning siren should be going off in every catholic's brain that their magisterium IS IN ERROR!
And if they are in error on that one, how many more things are they in error on? That freeper catholic's jump all over themselves to DEFEND this reprehensible doctrine "all paths lead to God" blasphemy; (along with catechism #841 which is nothing less than unity with Islam along with Hinduism apparently now as well) the Magisterium is currently pushing - tells me all I need to know about the Roman Catholic Church. (Hint: And its not positive!!!!!!!)
I think so, too.
I call it 'the frog in the pot' syndrome.
The corruption and heresies didn't all come at once. They started little by little, small increments at a time over centuries. Just like a frog. You put him in hot water and he jumps out. But you put him in cold water, then gradually turn up the heat, he's oblivious to it and slowly boils to death.
Ditto with the RCC. Had the Assumption of Mary doctrine, or this new movement of unity with Islam and now Hinduism been introduced all at once centuries ago, the Pope would have been burned as a heretic. But.....introduce heresy a little bit here, a little bit there, give it some time, let the people get adjusted to it, then a little bit more, and then more.....then you're in the year 2011 and catholics are now defending hinduism being incorporated into a Mass! Frogs in the pot.
Very good analogy.
bttt for your post
What religion or cult do you belong too?
So how can you criticize Catholics for doing the same unless you believe that the Magisterium is inherently evil or less credible than the authors of your commentaries and study aids.
"If any teaching CONTRADICTS Scripture it is TO BE REJECTED as Scripture is the FINAL AUTHORITY on truth from error."
On that we are in complete agreement, however Catholics do not accept that 100% of the revealed Word is contained in Scripture.
"When HINDUISM is MINGLED with the GOSPEL - IT IS heresy..."
The Catechism begins with the the following:
"1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church."
When words of any origin confirm the desire to seek and know God they are to be embraced.
We go directly to the original author of Scripture, God Himself.
GOD kept Scripture alive for 2,000 years in spite of the Catholic church, not because of it.
No you don't unless you are having regular apparitions and visions. You got your Bible from the magisterium of the Catholic Church.